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This is a AL stratagem which allows to hide one secondary objective until points are scored for it. How does this work when i select an objective which requires an action ? Do i perform that action without telling my opponent ? Telling him would reveal the objective before points are scored, which goes against the nature of the stratagem.

Veiled agenda
Use this Stratagem after selecting secondary objectives or agendas, if your army contains any units with the ALPHA LEGION keyword. Do not reveal one of your selections to your opponent. The first time you score victory points or experience points fot that secondary objective or agenda, reveal it to your opponent. Note that you must still make a record of your selection. We recommend writing this down and concealing it until releaved. You can only use this stratagem once.

It's not particularly clear and there's no explicit guidance in the rules, AFAICT. I'd think you'd still need to declare your unit is performing an action as the rule only tells you to hide the selection of the secondary from your opponent.

From a practical point of view, declaring the action allows you and your opponent to verify the unit successfully completed the action and didn't do anything that would prevent the action completing. I can see a bunch of arguments potentially coming up if you declare you've completed an action which you didn't say you were starting.

I would declare that you are performing an action but not say specifically what the action is. If your opponent can figure it out based on context then too bad far you.

It likely would never matter except in a competitive environment, and if that were the case then I doubt anyone would be spending valuable command points on what seems like a pretty terrible stratagem.

As a compromise you could just declare your unit is performing an action without actually specifying what the action is, perhaps writing it down which action you're performing to prevent any shenanigans.

You'd still have to declare the type of action, because certain action types have different limitations (psychic actions, for example).

Honestly whilst it effectively confirms what agenda you've taken, I don't see that you have permission to not tell your opponent what action type you've performed.

Yes it essentially confirms the secondary but YOU chose a secondary which required an action. If that undermines veiled agenda (which you didn't have to use), that's on you.

You have to declare the action, otherwise the unit isn't doing the action.

The rules for actions say i can declare a unit from your army will start to perform an action. The rules dont say i have to declare what type of action that is.

You can declare a unit from your army will start to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it (excluding AIRCRAFT) and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn.

How about quoting the preceding paragraph and sentence before arguing you can declare an Action without declaring what that action is?

Each action will specify when a unit can start to perform it, when it is completed, and any other conditions that must be satisfied (for example, some actions can only be attempted by units that are at specific locations on the battlefield). You can declare a unit from your army will start to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it (excluding AIRCRAFT) and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn. AIRCRAFT units and units with the Fortifications Battlefield Role cannot perform actions. A unit can only attempt to perform one action per battle round.

It doesnt say i must announce what type of action i am doing.

 p5freak wrote:

Each action will specify when a unit can start to perform it, when it is completed, and any other conditions that must be satisfied (for example, some actions can only be attempted by units that are at specific locations on the battlefield). You can declare a unit from your army will start to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it (excluding AIRCRAFT) and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn. AIRCRAFT units and units with the Fortifications Battlefield Role cannot perform actions. A unit can only attempt to perform one action per battle round.

It doesnt say i must announce what type of action i am doing.

Then how does your opponent know if it is possible to perform the action? "Trust me, I'm not cheating"?

If you make an edge case, resolve the edge case between you and your opponent. Then move on.

There isn’t a rules loophole here, just decide between you if your opponent is happy with “I’m doing a secret action” or wants the card revealed. I’d probably voluntarily reveal the card when beginning the action so both players are in the picture and no one feels hoodwinked. YMMV. Collaborate and the game is more fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

Each action will specify when a unit can start to perform it, when it is completed, and any other conditions that must be satisfied (for example, some actions can only be attempted by units that are at specific locations on the battlefield). You can declare a unit from your army will start to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it (excluding AIRCRAFT) and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn. AIRCRAFT units and units with the Fortifications Battlefield Role cannot perform actions. A unit can only attempt to perform one action per battle round.

It doesnt say i must announce what type of action i am doing.

And what do we say about “it doesn’t say that” as a rules argument basis?

Genestealers (and dark angels?) have the same stratagem. Genestealers have a secondary where your opponent has to place 2 objectives on the game board at the start of the game. Clearly these two are not competable.

Likevice 40K operates with clean information. Doing actions is not something you do in secret. (BTW, I placed banners turn 1 but I did not tell you etc.) You would spill the beans as soon as you do an action. Just like GS spoils the beans when your opponent has to place objectives.Tectically you do not need to tell him you have the secondary x, but once you inform him you do the action assosiated with x (or ask him to place objectives) the cat is out of the bag.

Time for a Comedy Routine:

"This unit is starting an action."
"What action?"
"That's secret."
"What? There aren't any secrets in a game of 40K"
"Remember that stratagem I used to keep a secret agenda? That's why it is a secret."
"OK. Fine. What are the conditions for using the stratagem?"
"Why do you need to know that?"
"So that I know you have started the action at a legal time with a legal unit."
"I guess I have to let you know that. The rules for performing that action are X."
"Excellent. BTW, I need to look at your Codex."
"Here you go."
Flips though the Codex and reads a few entries. "Ahh. You are using Agenda A."
"What! That's a secret."
"Your choice is a secret. The rules are public."

I agree with all of you, but those are core rules. The stratagem is a special rule which overrides this. I have to reveal what objective i have chosen when points are scored, until then all i have to do is to tell my opponent that that unit is doing an action (and write it down). Revealing what objective i have chosen before points are scored is against the rules of the stratagem.

Although it doesn't say you have to announce your actions, there is nothing in that stratagem specifically saying you don't have to announce or actions, or can ignore doing so.

With that said, if someone wanted to point out there is no rule specifically stating you must announce which unit is doing an action the caveat there is that as the stratagem doesn't grant permission to do such a thing, you are arguing that the default for everyone is that no unit has to declare they are doing an action.

That just isn't going to work.

I never said that i dont want announce that a unit is doing an action. I am announcing that a unit is doing an action, but not what specific action it is. If that unit is in range of an objective it can by any action which is objective related. Telling my opponent what action it is would violate the rules of the stratagem.

Yes, but I also get to verify. That's also 40K. So you have to tell me the conditions under which you start and end the action successfully, and then I look at your codex as again, that's open info.

You're wrong on this p5.

Another day, another pointless p5 thread where he ignores sage advice and basic common sense and consensus, and instead makes a game-breaking drama out of an easily resolved edge case if you talk to your opponent or simply don’t put yourself in the position in the first place.

I agree its pointless, when some of you make up your own rules. Nothing in the rules says i must specify what action a unit is doing, but because its me, and i am always wrong, i must say what action it is, breaking the rule of the stratagem, which is then fine.

Give over pal. This isn’t a crazy game breaking edge case. Just agree with your opponent how you both want to handle this Strat before you get to reveal/don’t reveal and everyone’s happy. No rules are being broken in anyone’s suggestions. You asked how to handle a situation, in mock earnest fashion as usual. You then attacked sensible answers to bait responses as usual. Laughable! No one needs a budget BCB.