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Since Orks (&Friends) have been created to be extremelly resilient and resourfull (they create their own food and echosystem) and multiply in great numbers quickly and on an autonomous manner... Being good at war is just a nice Bonus.

Imagine a previous isolated human world (that lost contact with the IOM milenia ago and hace reverted to a tech state similar to early xxI century earth (but with a population of just a few hundred million humans).

If a couple of million orks arrived from a lost space hulk... Sure they might want to start a great waagh fight because thats what orks do... But if they settled as peacefull refugees in the planet (because the local humans are afraid to start a fight or dont consider the orks a threat but rather a source of labor and mercenaries)... Then in perhaps 40 or 50 years the Ork infestation would have grown so much that the local human governments might have no other option than to accept enslavemnt from the rissing Ork warlords.

Orks don’t just fight anyone they seek a good fight with a worthy opponent. I doubt 21st century humans would be seen as any higher than grots to Orks and snot worth the scrap. Better to invest your time building gear for a proper scrap

So my point stands!!

They will just overtake the planet through demographic and ecologic pressure.

The Orks wouldn't settle peacefully in the first place. They'd conquer a city or two and then keep going.
If they win too easily then they'll just start fighting each other at which point we get GorkaMorka.

I SAID THEY WOULDNT BE PEACEFULL BECAUSE THATS NOT THE ORKISH WAY.

Actually reading the whole post can be usefull to answer in a chat rather than reacting after reading the heading or skimmning quickly.

Why would 2 million orks (without control of the orbit which is a basic assumption of the scenario I describe) have an easy win against a population of let say 400 million humans able to movilice with some effort like 20 million soldiers of a PDF equivalent???

Thats a 10 to 1 numerical advantage plus playing in their home planet advantage.

Sure eventually the Orks will multiply if not encountered with a determined resistance... Which as a further reason not to be so menacing from the get go. But its not going to be an easy and straight forward ork victory (even assuming humans dont use nukes).

Vatsetis wrote:
But if they settled as peacefull refugees in the planet

You literally said "peaceful refugees".

As for the numbers, Orks don't care. They'll go for it and die, release spores which in turn makes more Orks who will go for it and die which in turn releases more spores which continues forever. Jungles, cave systems, abandoned cities, desolate wastelands, the Orks will find a way to inhabit them all, and eventually the planet will be overrun by Orks.

Removed - rule #1

Your point is moot because Orks aren't peaceful. As soon as they see an opportunity to fight they take it, with the exception of Kommandos who are regarded as "Wrong 'Uns" by wider Ork society for wanting to be sneaky and the like. So unless the entire Ork warband is Kommandos i.e. extremely unlikely, your theoretical scenario isn't based on fact. They wouldn't settle "peacefully" anywhere, they would attack the nearest settled area and have a good time until they got wiped out.
As the Ork saying goes:
We don't fight fer food, or fer teef, or guns, or cos we's told to fight. We fight cos we woz born to fight. And win.

Orks don’t seek to conquer-they seek to fight.

Conquering is the byproduct, not the goal.

Gert, Are you being obtuse on porpouse?

Dont you understand what a "What if" scenario is?

You speak of "facts" but in a fictional setting like 40K known for unreliable narrators and were many lore "sources" (like BL novels) are hardly better than fan fiction... Invoking facts is quite pointless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Orks don’t seek to conquer-they seek to fight.

Conquering is the byproduct, not the goal.

And if they are decimated due to poor tactics they cannot continue to fight

Vatsetis wrote:
Gert, Are you being obtuse on porpouse?

Dont you understand what a "What if" scenario is?

You speak of "facts" but in a fictional setting like 40K known for unreliable narrators and were many lore "sources" (like BL novels) are hardly better than fan fiction... Invoking facts is quite pointless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Orks don’t seek to conquer-they seek to fight.

Conquering is the byproduct, not the goal.

And if they are decimated due to poor tactics they cannot continue to fight

Until the spores grow into new Orks.

What do you think an Ork Waaagh!'s goal is?

So the life of the orks are pointless??

If so why dont the orks just walk like zombies doing scary noise hoping to be destroyed?

Its irrelevant if they are defeated in battle or if they win big?

Waiting for stock answer... "40K is stupid, dont over think it". :(

Vatsetis wrote:
So the life of the orks are pointless??

If so why dont the orks just walk like zombies doing scary noise hoping to be destroyed?

Its irrelevant if they are defeated in battle or if they win big?

Waiting for stock answer... "40K is stupid, dont over think it". :(

An Ork’s life isn’t pointless-it’s actually more fulfilled than most humans, especially in 40k.

It’s just that they’re not following human motivations or goals. They live to fight.

So the original premise is:

The orks become peaceful refugees because the human population are afraid to fight?

Then the peaceful Orks create Warlords who the human population submit to?

Yes, different time frame (30 or 40 years actually) different number of orks (2 millions versus, 200 millions maybe)... Different outcome.

Whats so rare??

Vatsetis wrote:
So the life of the orks are pointless??

If so why dont the orks just walk like zombies doing scary noise hoping to be destroyed?

Its irrelevant if they are defeated in battle or if they win big?

Waiting for stock answer... "40K is stupid, dont over think it". :(

Orkoids are one of the most successful lifeforms in the 40k universe. Allegedly created to multiply and continue even if the original progenitor Orks are defeated.

And the stock answer is still the best one. Dont ever look up the Mad Boyz tables from RT/2nd ed You'll go spare trying to reason why an Ork stops fighting because they lost their boots.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
So the life of the orks are pointless??

If so why dont the orks just walk like zombies doing scary noise hoping to be destroyed?

Its irrelevant if they are defeated in battle or if they win big?

Waiting for stock answer... "40K is stupid, dont over think it". :(

An Ork’s life isn’t pointless-it’s actually more fulfilled than most humans, especially in 40k.

It’s just that they’re not following human motivations or goals. They live to fight.

Pointless not from a subjective but rather from a biological point of view.

Vatsetis wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
So the life of the orks are pointless??

If so why dont the orks just walk like zombies doing scary noise hoping to be destroyed?

Its irrelevant if they are defeated in battle or if they win big?

Waiting for stock answer... "40K is stupid, dont over think it". :(

An Ork’s life isn’t pointless-it’s actually more fulfilled than most humans, especially in 40k.

It’s just that they’re not following human motivations or goals. They live to fight.

Pointless not from a subjective but rather from a biological point of view.

What on earth do you mean by that?

Orks reproduce by emitting spores. These spores are released most often by combat injuries. Fighting IS their primary means of reproduction.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
So the life of the orks are pointless??

If so why dont the orks just walk like zombies doing scary noise hoping to be destroyed?

Its irrelevant if they are defeated in battle or if they win big?

Waiting for stock answer... "40K is stupid, dont over think it". :(

Orkoids are one of the most successful lifeforms in the 40k universe. Allegedly created to multiply and continue even if the original progenitor Orks are defeated.

And the stock answer is still the best one. Dont ever look up the Mad Boyz tables from RT/2nd ed You'll go spare trying to reason why an Ork stops fighting because they lost their boots.

Mad Boys make perfect sense from a macro POV (they are a wild card, therefore unpredictable, therefore hard to defend against).

That it dosent matter if millions of orks die without achieving anything meaningfull on the battlefield contradicts even the most dumb suspension of desbilief.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
So the life of the orks are pointless??

If so why dont the orks just walk like zombies doing scary noise hoping to be destroyed?

Its irrelevant if they are defeated in battle or if they win big?

Waiting for stock answer... "40K is stupid, dont over think it". :(

An Ork’s life isn’t pointless-it’s actually more fulfilled than most humans, especially in 40k.

It’s just that they’re not following human motivations or goals. They live to fight.

Pointless not from a subjective but rather from a biological point of view.

What on earth do you mean by that?

Orks reproduce by emitting spores. These spores are released most often by combat injuries. Fighting IS their primary means of reproduction.

So how are orks purged from IOM, TAU or Eldar Maiden worlds?

Do you just need a few dozen of boyz to crash land on a planet and the planet is doomed no matter how?

How is it therefore possible that other interstellar functional empires exist in the 40K milky way apart from da Orks???

Fire can clear Orks without letting the spores survive.

But, if Orks are on a planet, chances are you'll have Orks there in perpetuity. They're incredibly hard to properly get rid of.
Now, if you wipe out the entirety of the Orkish forces, the newly formed Orks won't have a technological base to work from, nor be as large and tough as more mature Orks, so it's much easier to handle. But they're very difficult to fully clear.

 Gert wrote:
Your point is moot because Orks aren't peaceful.

Yeah, but then he wouldnt be able to drop the the great replacement parallel and giggle to himself.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Fire can clear Orks without letting the spores survive.

But, if Orks are on a planet, chances are you'll have Orks there in perpetuity. They're incredibly hard to properly get rid of.
Now, if you wipe out the entirety of the Orkish forces, the newly formed Orks won't have a technological base to work from, nor be as large and tough as more mature Orks, so it's much easier to handle. But they're very difficult to fully clear.

Thanks, very good post!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Catulle wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Your point is moot because Orks aren't peaceful.

Yeah, but then he wouldnt be able to drop the the great replacement parallel and giggle to himself.

You are reading far too much into my hipothesis. Anyone that takes 2 minutes to google my nickname will realise Im probably not a white supremacist.

But sure If you want to see here a parallel into crazy RL ratial theories well you can... I assure you it was completelly unintended, I was just rambling and wanted to share a random thought... That it fitted the so called "great replacement" nonsense just show this "theory" is just an ideological fabrication.

Nevertheless... 40K Orks are ment to be alien to 40k humans, African and Assian migrants are just cousins of European People.

Catulle wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Your point is moot because Orks aren't peaceful.

Yeah, but then he wouldnt be able to drop the the great replacement parallel and giggle to himself.

That's what I thought. This thread/ the
OP sounded... strange to say the least right from the start and considering other troll threads from that poster... yeah, I don't think this will go very far.

You see trolling just because you have a prejudice against my previous threads.

Read my clarification.

 Gert wrote:
The Orks wouldn't settle peacefully in the first place. They'd conquer a city or two and then keep going.
If they win too easily then they'll just start fighting each other at which point we get GorkaMorka.

Despite your rudeness, Vatsetis, Gert's answer is a good one. The "but if" of your scenario requires the orks to act in a fashion so out of character for them that it creates a lot of unknown variables that make it difficult to respond to your question without addressing them.

Orks land on a planet. Maybe this triggers and instant all out war, and maybe it doesn't. Either way, eventually some orks and humans end up in close proximity to each other. Orks are bad at respecting personal space, especially when it comes to lifeforms that are scrawnier than they are. So as orks come across humans and their settlements, the orks would begin taking shiny stuff from the human settlements and probably bossing the humans around or beating them up for the fun of it. If humans as a whole continued to accept that kind of abuse without a fight (for some reason), then I guess they're just pretty much instantly enslaved the moment they meet an ork? If they try to resist, the orks would likely beat them up the same way they do gretchin and snotlings. If the humans try to defend themselves, then we're back to talking about orks and humans fighting.

Even if there's a period of orks living off in the wilderness or acting as mercs for the humans, they're still going to be orks. They're going to multiply in number and spread out across the planet. They're going to loot stuff and blow stuff up. They're going to expect creatures smaller than them to obey commands under threat of violence. Eventually, this is going to result in the orks becoming numerous and widespread enough to functionally "control" the planet. Any human settlemenets that catch the orks' eyes will be looted and their populations enslaved. And at this point, you basically have GorkaMOrka. Like Gert said. Before you jumped down their throat.

But in my original scenario... Orks were ment to eventually became more and more violent and active (thats why I speak of "warlords" ).

You are prerty much fleshing out my original hypothesis... So perhaps Im not a white supremacist troll?... Or perhaps Wildhunt is also one of those or even we are the same person?

Regarding Gorka Morka... Wasnt that planet basically reduced to a irradiated wasteland by the crash of the ork ship?

In my scenario the humans still have a functional society (or societies) years after rhe Orks arrived... But are unable to organise an efective resistance right away.

Sorry if I speak with some elipsis... I assumed I was talking to functional adults with good faith that are able to "fill some blanks".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If an "ork like" alien race arrive to 2020 earth in relatively small numbers (again without achieving orbital control)... Landing in a more or less depopulated area (lets say Amazonia)... What would be the most logical response from the local populations?

Probably not resist the Alien threat but rather flee away if they couldnt resist on their own (which wont happen)... After the experience of the recent pandemic I wouldnt expect world governments to act in a coordinated, unselfish and effective manner.

If they dont Nuke the Amazon right away (which would be problenatic), best case scenario is that they stablish a quarantine zone and try to contain the thread... Which will mean that it will eventually get out of control.

This would be an interesting "World War O" scenario.

Vatsetis wrote:
Gert, Are you being obtuse on porpouse?

Dont you understand what a "What if" scenario is?

You speak of "facts" but in a fictional setting like 40K known for unreliable narrators and were many lore "sources" (like BL novels) are hardly better than fan fiction... Invoking facts is quite pointless.

It's a rubbish scenario mate. It's literally "What if Orks weren't Orks" and there's no answer to such a stupid question.
As for facts, it's the Orks. They exist to fight. That's from GW writers, FW writers, BL writers, Orks in the setting, and people studying Orks in the setting. Orks are one of the most culturally consistent races in 40k to the point where even when they evolve during the War of the Beast they still make war. Even the Oddboys of Ork society do their odd things to do more fighting.

And if they are decimated due to poor tactics they cannot continue to fight

Orks don't care about losses. As yet another popular in universe Ork saying goes:
Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!

If you want to know what a race that looks like 40k Orks but doesn't act like 40k Orks would do to a modern-day Earth, ask the question in a different forum that isn't discussing 40k.

Gert, I cant understand why you consider your extreme rigoristic approach to lore to be something to be proud off.

Whaf if? Scenarios have been a part of popular culture (sure you we can agree that 40K is pop culture rather than hardcore scifi or some sort of snobbish literature, right) for decades.

If Superman can be the heir of Stalin, Orks could be "somewhat" peacefull (or simply cunning)... Sure its "out of charecter" but perhaps thats exactly the point I try to make (and some people lacking common sense might consider this trolling by my part, but thats not the case).

Removed - Rule #1

Vatsetis wrote:
Gert, I cant understand why you consider your extreme rigoristic approach to lore to be something to be proud off.

Whaf if? Scenarios have been a part of popular culture (sure you we can agree that 40K is pop culture rather than hardcore scifi or some sort of snobbish literature, right) for decades.

If Superman can be the heir of Stalin, Orks could be "somewhat" peacefull (or simply cunning)... Sure its "out of charecter" but perhaps thats exactly the point I try to make (and some people lacking common sense might consider this trolling by my part, but thats not the case).

The difference between Red Son and your example is that Red Son changes one thing in Superman's past which then drastically alters the future along reasonable and logical pathways, and your's is just "What if different". They aren't remotely the same.

Removed - Rule #1

1 - I've had a pretty bad week so this was a nice laugh.
2 - You should maybe stop before you go a step too far.

 Gert wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
Gert, Are you being obtuse on porpouse?

Dont you understand what a "What if" scenario is?

You speak of "facts" but in a fictional setting like 40K known for unreliable narrators and were many lore "sources" (like BL novels) are hardly better than fan fiction... Invoking facts is quite pointless.

It's a rubbish scenario mate. It's literally "What if Orks weren't Orks" and there's no answer to such a stupid question.
As for facts, it's the Orks. They exist to fight. That's from GW writers, FW writers, BL writers, Orks in the setting, and people studying Orks in the setting. Orks are one of the most culturally consistent races in 40k to the point where even when they evolve during the War of the Beast they still make war. Even the Oddboys of Ork society do their odd things to do more fighting.

And if they are decimated due to poor tactics they cannot continue to fight

Orks don't care about losses. As yet another popular in universe Ork saying goes:
Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!

If you want to know what a race that looks like 40k Orks but doesn't act like 40k Orks would do to a modern-day Earth, ask the question in a different forum that isn't discussing 40k.

Gert, that quote shows that Orks indeed care about losses to the point they need to justify them. It also points out that Orks do indeed retreat. Its also meant to be satiric.

Orks are inteligent beings capable of having an ideology. They arent Tyranids.

Orc being warlike from feral up too intergalactic empire state just show how similar to humans they actually are... They perhaps arent as hipocrete about it as the Western civilization tends to be.