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Karandras, the Scorpion Phoenix Lord, has the "Stealth" ability. This is normally an Exarch ability which allows the Exarch's squad to infiltrate.

Karandras is an Independant Character.

If I have a squad of Howling Banshees (which may not normally infiltrate), can I attach Karandras to the squad at the beginning of the game and thus infiltrate the entire squad?

When does "attaching" the unit happen, basically?

I have in the past assumed for instance that I can attach a Farseer to a squad that is in a transport (e.g. a 9 man Striking Scorpion squad) so he can fortune them first turn and ride with them in their Wave Serpent. Is this a "correct" attachment?

'Attaching' happens before deplyment. This can only be done by characters specifically allowed to do so, like Warlocks, Commissars, and Marine ICs, and can only be done as specified by that model's rules.

All other ICs are not 'attached'... they are 'joined'

Joining a unit can only happen at two times:

1: By moving the IC within 2" of the unit during the movement phase.

2: By placing the IC into the already deployed unit or the already deployed unit's transport during the Deployment phase.


There is no way to join an IC to a unit before the unit is on the board.

Had this discussion last year with a squad of swooping hawks and karandras.

By the letter of the rules, it seems like it's legal. Here's why:

1) Karandras can join a squad during deployment.
2) Karandras gives that squad the ability to infiltrate - because it's 'his' squad.
3) The infiltrate section of deployment comes up and then you can infiltrate.

The reason it is hazy is because you have to assume that Karandras' rule "Allows his squad to infiltrate" means "allows his squad to infiltrate outside of normal game mechanics, which do not explicitly allow you to re-deploy after deploying."

Currently there is no rule preventing or even requiring infiltrating squads not to have been deployed already as far as I know. But you should get the book USR of infiltrate and all the deployment rules out and see

By the letter of the rules, it seems like it's legal. Here's why:

1) Karandras can join a squad during deployment.
2) Karandras gives that squad the ability to infiltrate - because it's 'his' squad.
3) The infiltrate section of deployment comes up and then you can infiltrate.

Except that you have just broken the order of deployment. Karandras can't join the squad until it is already on the board. So the Squad is deployed as normal, as a Troops (or whatever) choice before you get to your infiltrators. Karandras can then be deployed into the squad, but by then they are already on the board and so don't get a chance to infiltrate.

What I'm asking is where in the order of deployment does it say that infiltrating requires that you have not already been deployed?

Infiltrating has no restrictions. If you have the ability you can infiltrate regardless of whether you have already been deployed.

Infiltrate, pg75:
"Units with the infiltrate ability may set up in accordance iwth the infiltrate special rule (see page 84)"

Infiltrate, pg 84:
"Any infiltrators deployed on the table at the start of the game are deployed after all other units. If both sides have infiltrators ..." "Infiltrators may be set up ..." "Alternatively they may be set up ..."

Nothing about "They can't already be deployed." Course it doesn't say they can be redeployed either.

Actually the text "Any infiltrators deployed on the table at the start of the game" specifically applies to Karandras - he and his unit are deployed on the table at the start of the game. Then they get deployed again!

It's silly. But nothing about infiltrators seems to prohibit you from having them on the table already. The deep strike rule however does explicitly say they can't have been deployed already (they go into reserves).

Whatever - my gut tells me people will let you use Karandras to infiltrate a squad. It's been hashed out here. Ask a tourney organizer, because it's a hazy part of the rules until the new codex comes out   

What I'm asking is where in the order of deployment does it say that infiltrating requires that you have not already been deployed?

Infiltrating is a part of the reguar deployment order. Check the 'Deploy Forces' section on page 81. All that Infiltration allows you to do is skip the usual deployment slot and deploy as Infiltrators instead. As you say, nothing in the Infiltration rule allows you to redeploy a unit that has already been placed.

And as per usual, if there is no rule saying you can do something, you can't do it.


As to whether or not people would allow it, well, that's up to them. For what it's worth, there is a similar situation with Grotesques... Their rules allow them a Raider transport, so long as they are accompanied by a Homonculous. But there is no way given to actually attach a Homoncuous to the unit before the game begins. So you would have to break the usual rules in order for this to be possible.

The fact that Karandras has Stealth at all suggests that something different to the actual rules was intended, since even under 3rd ed Deployment rules there was no way to actually give him a squad before deployment.