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Initial Statement: So one thing that seems to be a point of contention with my earlier builds is how I categorize them as Friendly/Casual. This is because I have not played in a Tournament or any other Competitive Environment - I live in a small town and find it hard to find any other 40k players. I am trying not to be presumptuous, and thus I don't want to act like my builds are super-strong when they are by and large untested. A lot of builds can look strong on paper, but a real life test can work out very different then a build works in theory. I am not trying to insult more experienced players and doing this in a subtle way. Perhaps in a manner too subtle. But ultimately I think it should be known that the builds I make are not from the most experienced player in the world and made largely based on what I would find fun to field and not based on extensive testing, which I think a good competitive build should have before it is declared Tournament level. With that being said, here is my latest Votann build.

Battalion Detachment

Ymyr Conglomerate

HQ

Brokhyr Forge-master
Warlord, Master Armourer, Volumn's Master Artifice

Lord Grymnyr
Ancestral Wrath, Fortify, Interface Echo, The Murmuring Stave

Troops

3 x 20 Hearthkyn w/ bolters
Multiwave Comms. Array, Medipack, x 2 Magna-rail rifle

Heavy Support

x 3 Hekaton Land Fortress
Heavy magna-rail cannon

Part of the reason I make my army so uniform is out of an attempt to be polite. I think making irregular units can confuse the opponent and muddy the waters in the game,. I prefer an fair, open, honorable battle, with as little confusion as possible.

> I don't think this is competitive
> Runs three Hekatons with Magnacannons
> It's polite to run it this way.

Do you actually own the models for these lists you post or are they thought experiments?

I think a good description of some of your lists could be "Try Hard Casual", as they tend to:
- Spam what you think are strong datasheets.
- Do a suspicious amount of skew.
- Do not look like they plan to be playing on a board with adequate terrain.
- Do not look practical for scoring primaries and secondaries.

I would generally not recommend any casual player buys 3 of any datasheet (buying 3 x min size of a unit where that equals less than or equal to 2 x max size of a unit is sort of ok).

An example, a casual Death Guard player should probably not own more than 12 Deathshroud. That would allow them to field 3 x 3 (min size) or 2 x 6 (max size), but not the full 3 x 6 the codex allows. And honestly I think only owning 6 Deathshroud would be fine for most casual DG players and you might see 9~12 for a very dedicated to the faction casual player.

My suggestion to new Votann players aiming for eventual 2k matched play would be to collect a core army of:

1 Kahl
1 Champion
1 Grimnyr
1 Brokhyr
30 Warriors (build at least 10 with a different basic weapon, kit them out with lots of trimmings)
6 Bikes (kit them out with lots of trimmings)
5 Beserks
1 Land Fortress

This would be by buying 1 x Starter Box, 1 x Combat Patrol, 2 x extra characters, 1 x big chonky tank.

Then play ten 1.5k games to get a feel for the army before expanding. Switch around which of the characters you take. Pick up your next unit (5 Termies or 1 Sagitaur or 3 x Thunderkyn) and experiment at 1.5k or 1.75k for a few more games. Another likely purchase is another Combat Patrol box, which will allow you to either build a new squad of 10 Warriors or build replacements for your existing squads if you don't like the equipment you gave them (e.g. you could build 10 new special/heavy weapon options to mix into your existing squads).

If you don't play that often you may even find that the second wave of models arrives before you've expanded past 2k.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Do you actually own the models for these lists you post or are they thought experiments?

I think a good description of some of your lists could be "Try Hard Casual", as they tend to:
- Spam what you think are strong datasheets.
- Do a suspicious amount of skew.
- Do not look like they plan to be playing on a board with adequate terrain.
- Do not look practical for scoring primaries and secondaries.

I would generally not recommend any casual player buys 3 of any datasheet (buying 3 x min size of a unit where that equals less than or equal to 2 x max size of a unit is sort of ok).

An example, a casual Death Guard player should probably not own more than 12 Deathshroud. That would allow them to field 3 x 3 (min size) or 2 x 6 (max size), but not the full 3 x 6 the codex allows. And honestly I think only owning 6 Deathshroud would be fine for most casual DG players and you might see 9~12 for a very dedicated to the faction casual player.

My suggestion to new Votann players aiming for eventual 2k matched play would be to collect a core army of:

1 Kahl
1 Champion
1 Grimnyr
1 Brokhyr
30 Warriors (build at least 10 with a different basic weapon, kit them out with lots of trimmings)
6 Bikes (kit them out with lots of trimmings)
5 Beserks
1 Land Fortress

This would be by buying 1 x Starter Box, 1 x Combat Patrol, 2 x extra characters, 1 x big chonky tank.

Then play ten 1.5k games to get a feel for the army before expanding. Switch around which of the characters you take. Pick up your next unit (5 Termies or 1 Sagitaur or 3 x Thunderkyn) and experiment at 1.5k or 1.75k for a few more games. Another likely purchase is another Combat Patrol box, which will allow you to either build a new squad of 10 Warriors or build replacements for your existing squads if you don't like the equipment you gave them (e.g. you could build 10 new special/heavy weapon options to mix into your existing squads).

If you don't play that often you may even find that the second wave of models arrives before you've expanded past 2k.

Thank you for that. You seem well informed - what Warlord Trait, if any, should I give to my Grimnyr? I think it might be a good idea for - 1 CP, seeing as my Lord Grimnyr can generate 2 CP per round but am not sure what would be optimal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:
> I don't think this is competitive
> Runs three Hekatons with Magnacannons
> It's polite to run it this way.

Good points and thank you.

I would save the CP rather than getting anything for the Grimnyr.

However, the list is flawed in several areas.

Ymyr + Magna rails is a bit odd.

Ymyr + Beams makes more sense.

GTL (Uthar) + Magna rails also makes more sense.

You have too many of one gun (magna rail) and not enough of others.

Too many Hekatrukks.

3 x 20 Warrior units means you can't use your 3 x 12 transport capacity vehicles. 6 x 10 better. 3 x 10 + 1 x 20 probably even better.

Scanner not Comms on the Warriors.

Bikes are one of the best units in the codex and in the game.

No Kahl so no re-rolls on your Warriors.

EightFoldPath wrote:
I would save the CP rather than getting anything for the Grimnyr.

However, the list is flawed in several areas.

Ymyr + Magna rails is a bit odd.

Ymyr + Beams makes more sense.

GTL (Uthar) + Magna rails also makes more sense.

You have too many of one gun (magna rail) and not enough of others.

Too many Hekatrukks.

3 x 20 Warrior units means you can't use your 3 x 12 transport capacity vehicles. 6 x 10 better. 3 x 10 + 1 x 20 probably even better.

Scanner not Comms on the Warriors.

Bikes are one of the best units in the codex and in the game.

No Kahl so no re-rolls on your Warriors.

Thanks. I will revise the list.

So the list is Heavily revised in light of suggestions. Thanks again. You will notice a lot more beam weapons since Ymyr get an advantage in that. I removed the Grimnyr, which I hate to do because I think he's awesome. But in exchange I get a High Kahl Warlord for JTs and Auras plus 2 Brokhyr for lots of healing on my Vees - up to 8 per turn! Immortal Hekatons here we come!

A lot of these changes make sense with Ymyr Lore as crafters and it also takes advantage of their increased survivability.

So without further Ado -

Ymyr Conglomerate

Battalion Detachment

HQ

Brokhyr Forge-master
Master Armourer

Brokhyr Iron-master
Volumn's Master Artifice

High Kahl
Warlord, Combi-Bolter, Plasma Axe, Experienced Eye, The Last Crest of Jaluk

Troops

8 Hearthkyn Warriors w/ Bolters
1 EtaCarn plasma beamer, 1 Comms, 1 Medic

8 Hearthkyn w/ Bolters
1 EtaCarn plasma beamer, 1 Medic

8 Hearthkyn w/Bolters
1 EtaCarn plasma beamer, 1 Medic, 1 Scanner

Fast Attack

Hernkyn Pioneers
Ion Beamer, Scanner, Searchlight

Heavy Support

x3 Hekaton Land Fortress
Scanner, Conversion Beamer, x2 Two Ion Beamers

A very different list. I needed more JTs. Also to go with the theme of Ymyr- more beams. A lot more beams.

If the enemy tries to swarm, that sucks for them. Also beams have high AP meaning they can destroy vehicles, especially en masse.

The use of more beam weapons vs Rail ( Ymyr vs Thurian) means damage is more sustainable/predictable vs high burst. This makes it more reliable but also means the enemy can respond with heals, etc, easier vs them getting a lot of damage at once which can be harder to adapt to or recover from.

I feel a little less vulnerable vs say a heavy Tau Gunline with this, as it has more defense and has Bikes to serve as a Mid/Support Line, so it has less weak points vs my GTL builds, but it also has less brutal, striking power - meaning it is less efficient in aggressive strategies meant to seize the Tactical Initiative. Overall a fun army, especially against Swarmers, but imo, less effective by marginal degree vs a GTL Rail Army.