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So, since the black Friday sales are on, I thought it's a good time as any to grab a 3d printer.

If it helps, I mostly want one for printing out custom parts for conversions and models for dnd, not looking for the ability to print giant models or entire armies.

After taking a look around at printers and print quality, I think getting a 4k will be a good balance of detail vs cost. The Anycubic photon mono 4k (linked by Spreelock in a lower thread) seems good enough to me, I was originally looking at Phrozen and Elegoo but the lack of availability in the UK turned me away.


Now I'm just looking through what I'll need:

- Safety goggles, mask and gloves: I already have these

- Resin: I'm not certain on this, my initial thought is to get the most for the least price but reading up on it suggests that print quality is heavily dependent on the resin used. There's Anycubic's own brand on Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/ANYCUBIC-Resin-Photon-Printing-1000ml/dp/B07FY7DF1Z/ref=asc_df_B07FY7DF1Z/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310835630118&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8707521077000347312&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006956&hvtargid=pla-564387497958&psc=1) and some people suggest going with the manufacturers own brand for a first print. Any suggestions to the contrary would be readily welcomed though.

- Cleaning bath: Some people suggest getting a UV bath and others say IPA in a tub is fine. I'd prefer to just use IPA as it's cheaper, do UV baths really make a difference besides saving time?

- UV lamp: Some say sunlight works but I live in England. Though I'm not sure on the strength, would a small lamp like this work: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Light-Curing-Lamp-Wavelength/dp/B09MLRDHCJ/ref=asc_df_B09MLRDHCJ/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=570339391857&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7012563373218897960&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006956&hvtargid=pla-1644697727977&psc=1

- Cleaning up the model: I assume my usual assortment of clippers, craft knives and files will work?


And that looks to be all I'll need for the moment, is there anything I've missed or gotten completely wrong? Any better suggestions than what I've gone with?

Thanks.

I have no experience with that lamp, for curing I use one of these lamps, it works okay. Though you have to put the print right next to it (but I was using water washable type). There's version of that lamps sold with a solar or battery-powered rotating platform some people use; but I just place my prints in a pie tin, cover it with the lamp and flip the prints with long tweezers every couple of minutes.
The sun works too just slower.
There's people who make their own cure stations with strips of UV LEDs in a coffee can or box.

It depends how much or thrifty you want to be with the process.

If you ever do any hollow prints consider getting some UV LEDS for snaking inside to get areas the lamp light won't always reach.

And I strongly recommend using UV blocking shop goggles.

Heads up for UK stock - 3D Jake is worth a look. They aren't in the UK but ship to the UK and their prices are generally pretty good. I've bought a lot of my 3D print stuff from them (esp as they seem to be the only place that keeps Aqua 4K resin in stock for more than a few hours).

https://www.3djake.uk


A) Not sure what you've found on safety gear so give this article a read:
https://printhunter.org/3d-printing-health-and-safety-tips/

Quick summary of a few key points
1) Gloves need to be Nitrile or Butile - do NOT use latex as it will melt

2) Facemask needs to filter organic particles.




B) Resin: different resins for different properties and prices. You don't have to stick to the manufacturers brand for your machine. Also note that the whole 4K, 8K on resins is purely marketing talk and is not in any way linked to printer resolution. That said 8K resins will generally hold more detail than 4K, but will also often cost more.
This can be a huge area of variety in terms of detail and durability. I can't really make a strong suggestion here, I've only used Aqua 4K Grey resin and I've found it more than suitable both detail and durability wise.

I will say avoid water-washable resins. Not only is it more hassle (whilst water is free once its been used to wash its then contaminated and has to be cured before disposing - which means evapourating off the water and curing any residue); but WW resins can be more difficult to print with, esp with hollowed models as the WW resins have a greater chance of tearing

Also note "eco" resins are just as toxic and dangerous as regular resins. You still need your facemask on, gloves on and its still a hazard until fully cured


c) UV Baths don't really do much and come with more faff and a higher risk because the resin still has to be washed in IPA so now you have to bag the model in a container with IPA and then immerse it in the UV bath.

In general remember the key with washing is agitation. So the wash and cure machines work by simply spinning the IPA up to wash the resin off; you can do this with a few plastic pickle jars and just giving the model a good shake inside.
Note that washing with IPA wants to be done in only a few minutes. If you wash for too long it will damage the resin model. So think in terms of 3 or 4 mins only. How long can vary depending on the strength of the IPA and the resin. But its not a huge amount of time.

You can also use denatured alcohol and acetone, but if you use acetone your wash time goes down to 30seconds or so because it will eat into the resin very aggressivly.

When I started I used 2 pickle jars- one to wash off the worst, one to rinse (and when it clouded up a bit when a model went in that was a sign to use the rinse as the wash and change the IPA in the former wash container for fresh IPA)

~Wash and cure machines are nice, but not essential.

D) So I've found those cheap UV lamps took forever to cure anything, then again even with my wash and cure I have now I'll blast a model for 30mins or more.
Even once cured like that I will often leave them on the windowsil for a day or so to fully finish and degas (and I'm in the UK too so its not insane light levels).

The big thing with curing is to note that overcuring is practically impossible. You have to start thinking months/years to do damage. UV curing resins will react with UV light until the resin is fully cured then it stops reacting. However some people don't realise that this final state can be more fragile than they like. So they think its overcuring and thus try and undercure which is not safe nor advised.*

E) Yep. You print the model, give it a quick wash, separate it from the supports, cure and then leave to degas and then you've got your model ready to work with. Cleaning up support marks and prepping the model for paint is just the same as cleaning up mould lines off a cast model. Some models will also require assembly. Note that sometimes people will assemble and glue before curing, this is because some resins contract more when cured which can lead to warping that makes parts harder to join up after curing. So glue before curing is sometimes required - again this can vary on model design and resin.

F) Temperature. One thing you've overlooked is temperature. Resin doesn't like the cold. Most resins require at least 20C to print reliably (there's a few that need 30C but they are generally clearly marked). This is a temperature constant they require througout the print time.
Heating is a big topic and you can read a good article on it here:
https://printhunter.org/printing-and-temperature/

In addition note that I've seen more people this year having good results with brewers belts wrapped around the VAT and then a reptile thermostat to control the power and temperature of the belt.






*My observation is that people find problems because of:
1) They use very cheap/brittle resins

2) Some designs in the 3D print world are not "practical" minded in how they are designed and can end up with very thin details which will print, but which can be super fragile once printed.

3) The person is more used to modern GW plastic models or DnD PVC models. So they've not experienced things like Forgeworld Cast resins and the like. I'd also say DND players are more heavy handed on their models than wargmers because they are more used to those tougher PVC models and "chucking them in the box at the end of the game". Wargamers tend to be more aware and careful.

PondaNagura wrote:

I don't think that UV lamp is available here, though I imagine the UV lamp I got will be fine enough (might just need a bit longer), and yeah I'll probably make a little UV box to cure them in.

I don't imagine I'll do much hollow printing, like I said I'm mainly wanting this for small parts and custom models.

And aye, I have UV glasses.

Overread wrote:

3DJake was my first thought but then I found they have a terrible customer rating online, lots of bad reviews so that put me off.

Aye, I have a lot of safety gear from work/modelling so I should be ok.

I guess I'll just print and find out with the resin then?

Mmm, I did wonder how affective a UV bath would be compared to elbow grease.

Not too worried about time to cure, not gonna be in a hurry, more worried about coverage and whether it actually cures it at all.

Wouldn't it pull away after curing if you glued it beforehand?

Mmm, that is a concern, generally I keep the house at 16deg. Maybe my new printers home should be situated by the radiator then? Though I'd be worried of it getting too hot...

Was thinking of getting my gf a heated blanket for Christmas, maybe I can steal that for the vat?

I've experienced FW's worst, warped, bubbly resin; I don't think I'll possibly be able to do worse than that


Thanks for the advice!
Will let you know if the printer is any good!

Overread always comes through on these posts, thanks for the link on temperature been wondering about the incubator kits.
I should have followed up after mentioning it and will second not getting water washable, doesn't hold the same amount of detail as the other stuff but was useful when IPA was still in short supply here.

Was thinking of getting my gf a heated blanket for Christmas, maybe I can steal that for the vat?

...in case you're not joking, only if you never want to use that as a blanket again because of exposure to toxic resin fumes.

Speaking of which, if you are printing in your house make sure you either have an enclosure (a modified grow tent or build a box) or have really good ventilation system.
I've been shopping around for my own heating solutions for an unheated space not inside my house due to VOC concerns.
I've also heard of people using the fermentation belt around the VAT having good results.
Some people swear by using a PTC heater kit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQmmGj6gMdk
This might be option for you lot, I can't get these here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XYu2XNGR-E
edit: a work around for us yanks might be a gunsafe dehumidifier and temp controller.
Like that article said I looked into reptile tank lightless heat bulbs but they have their drawbacks to reliably heating a space evenly for printers.
Though like the blanket idea I'm tempted to try surrounding the printer in something like this leg warmer thing? edit: nvm, same problem with radiant heat pads uneven surface temp issue.

A lot of the 3D Jake complaints are from pandemic times when postage was a nightmare, even more so when Brexit hit and UK customers got an added layer of red tape and slowdowns. I'd honestly just ignore those because in the end almost every firm was (and some still are) suffering from increased sales, overburdened support and slow postage problems that they had no control over.


All I can say is that I've had good results from buying from them and have generally found them reliable and quick to communicate. I've even head stories of them dealing with major issues on printers and often trying to resolve them with the manufacturers (which is often where the real issues are because many of the 3D print manufacturers are a bit spotty/terrible with after-sales-support. Heck even some that do have good support can have issues such as insanely high postage costs for replacement parts etc...). In general all those I've spoken to have had good results from 3D Jake.


That said I've seen both Firestormgames and Wayland Games getting into 3D printing - Wayland have started getting stock of things like the Saturn 2 printers.





For heating the two big things are getting the heat into that 20-30C range (for most resins, or the 30-40C range for those that need a higher starting temp) and then either maintaining that temperature constantly OR ensuring that any rise and fall is gradual not sudden.


A lot of common heating appliances work with on-off thermostats. So when they are on they push out all the power they have/are allowed and raise the temp to a set value, then they shut off. They then don't turn on again until the temperature goes below a threshold and then they turn on again at full power. With something like a fan heater - as the article reports - I found that you'd get those expansion lines from the resin reacting to those sharp rises. So that's one thing to watch out for.




Personally I went the expensive pathway of the fan heater (esp since when I started looking brewers belts were not as much used). The bonus with the fan heater is that it heats the enclosure so my resin in the printer is warm; the print on the build plate is warm; the resin in the bottle is also warm. So I can top up the VAT mid-print (if required) without worries and I can top it up before a new print quickly.
Warmed resin also peels off the supports easier so I never have to use the "hot water" method/trick to help separate model from supports. Which also means I don't have contaminated water hanging around to process and then dispose of.

PondaNagura wrote:

Aye, was joking about that, wouldn't be able to get it off her even if I did want to use it.

About enclosures and ventilation, I'm not likely going to be able to vent outside, so I've been looking at the air filters that elegoo and anycubic sell and sit them in the printer inside a mini-greenhouse. They seem ideal if they actual work, anyone have experience with them? The Greenhouse is just the first thing that came to mind for a small enclosure able to keep in heat and air.

Overread wrote:

That's fair enough, maybe I'll try 3dJake out for resins in the future.

Fan and area heaters seem so overboard, since they are meant to heat a room, think a smaller sunhouse or reptile heater would do as mentioned above?

Check the link I posted, the fan heaters that work best are generally those made for egg incubation. You can get proportional car heaters, but finding a proportional thermostat is difficult and then you've got to build the whole system up yourself.

Downside is the UK home chicken market collapsed several years ago and has shrunk after successive waves of birdflu and grain price rises. So whilst there are incubators around there ins't the wealth of kits and parts - hence why in my article above I had to get one from the USA.



When it comes to enclosures and ventilation a lot of cloth enclosures won't be 100% sealed. You can get totally sealed enclosures and they would lock the fumes in until you open the door. The air filters are often ok at removing the smell of stuff but not always the chemicals (remember just because you can't smell it doesn't mean its not there). They can take the edge off and many people use them just for that. The best is to have the printer in a room people don't use often - so a spare room or such - so that you can leave it running and contain the fumes and open the window when you open it up to get a print out and such (remembering to have mask, gloves and eye protection on)

 Overread wrote:

Mmm, those are pretty expensive though. That sunhouse heater is about 1/3 the price, delivery from the UK and likely heats just as well (if not thermostat controllable). Plus I wouldn't have to wire it up myself, and while I can wire, I'd rather not.

Activated Carbon filters should absorb the chemical fumes should they not? Not just the "smell".

Wondering if it might be worth making a little carriable cabinet anyway, have it sit in the back room with the heater in it and then when it's done just take the whole thing in to the back garden before I open it up (would also reduce the risk of me getting resin and IPA all over the floor if I do it outside). Though that would then mean exposing the newly printed models and the resin in the well to the cold air, so I'm not sure whether that would be a good idea either...

The key is the heat regulation. If the thermostat is an on-off kind then it might well cause the heat expansion lines noted in the article. So you solve your temperature problem, but gain lines in the print that you do not want.

I agree the heater setup I got is pretty expensive. It works well and I like it, but the brewers belt with a reptile heating controller is proving popular right now as a more affordable alternative.

One issue is that the reptile heating controllers don't work with fan heaters so you can't just take a regular small fan heater and plug it into the reptile setup. So that gives you some limits on your options.


I've known a few others use things like heat pads and such as well. There's a fair bit of experimenting going on.






As for fumes, the charcoal makes it better but it won't capture it all so it won't negate the need for a proper mask nor the need for either sealing the printer in or having it operate in an unused room.

Cold air won't hurt the printer, resin nor printed model one bit once the printing process is finished. The main risk is sunlight. You don't really want that landing on the model until its been washed and all the loose resin is removed from the surface. You also don't want sunlight falling on your VAT either.

That said I wouldn't encourage carrying/wheeling a filled VAT around the house. It's a spill accident just waiting to happen. By all means open up the printer, take the model out and transport the model to the processing area, but I'd try and keep the printer and VAT in one spot.

 Overread wrote:

Hmmm, lots of choices to make. Guess I'll do some experimentation when it all gets here and see how well the cheaper stuff holds up, I can certainly play around with putting together an enclosure. If it doesn't hold up then I can always ask for some new parts for Christmas.

Thanks for all the info!

So I've bought myself a small cabinet with a slide out draw the printer will sit on. Still not finished yet though; I have a incubation heater lamp screwed into the side, a air filter that sits on the platform with the printer and a shelf to house the resin; but I'm also still fiddling about with the door and sealant for the cabinet.

I think I'm gonna do a test run in my extension: I just use it for storage so it will keep any fumes away from me, my partner or our cats but it's got no heating so will have to see if the incubation lamp will be enough to counter the -6deg weather we're currently having. If the prints come out terrible then the back dining room is the next place it could go since we don't really use it except if we're having people over for dinner, and it has a patio door that opens into the garden.

Will keep you updated (mods let me know if I should be making a new thread since this one is 2+ weeks old now).

I don't think you need to create a new one, no (I have a vlog one here, for example, and I really can't update that all the time xD).

If anything, you might want to change the name to better represent what this thread is going to be now ^^