BFG-GW teases BFG return?

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**Haighus**

A BFG gunnery-table slide rule would be amazing if it was functional.

**Haighus**

We also have HH book mentions of the "newer" ship designs too, like Lunar class ships. It is possible the armoured prows were always around but the combat paradigm was less popular. It is also possible they were not so heavily armoured in the past but retained the same profile, like the Emperor class. The Armageddon class battleship at least dates back to the Scouring, so that gives the armoured prow a long history.

IIRC, each Segmentum has its own pattern of ships produced in the Segmentum Fortress, plus some other patterns from major forgeworlds, so it is easy to introduce new patterns. The classic Imperial armoured prow is either Jovian or Martian IIRC, the "Chaos" design is from Cypra Mundi, and there are designs for (I think) Bakka and Voss pattern ships and prows in the old model range. I may be mixing up Bakka and Kar Duniash for the Rogue Trader cruiser model.

**Haighus**

Iracundus wrote:
Haighus wrote:
We also have HH book mentions of the "newer" ship designs too, like Lunar class ships. It is possible the armoured prows were always around but the combat paradigm was less popular. It is also possible they were not so heavily armoured in the past but retained the same profile, like the Emperor class. The Armageddon class battleship at least dates back to the Scouring, so that gives the armoured prow a long history.

IIRC, each Segmentum has its own pattern of ships produced in the Segmentum Fortress, plus some other patterns from major forgeworlds, so it is easy to introduce new patterns. The classic Imperial armoured prow is either Jovian or Martian IIRC, the "Chaos" design is from Cypra Mundi, and there are designs for (I think) Bakka and Voss pattern ships and prows in the old model range. I may be mixing up Bakka and Kar Duniash for the Rogue Trader cruiser model.

The "newer" Imperial designs now favored by the 40K Imperium are a concession to loss of technology. The arrowhead designs seen now in the Chaos fleets had more powerful engines and more high powered energy weapons (lances), which over time it seems the Imperium found more and more difficult to produce and maintain. The Martian or Jovian school of design ("armored prow") seems to have become dominant as the simple expedient of slapping on slabs of armor over the front and using torpedo tubes was more doable than maintaining long range lances.

I think you were referring to the Apocalypse class battleship not the Armageddon class battlecruiser. The Apocalypse is a sign of the Imperium regressing. It has the armored prow, but its long range lances are dialled back to half their potential range due to trouble with the power relays. Actually firing the lances at full range as designed would blow relays and sap energy from the engines, a flaw that the older battleships like the Desolator did not have.

I did mean the Apocalypse. I still think it is highly likely early Apocalypse class vessels did not suffer the relay issues, or they wouldn't have been very effective in their role as Desolator-hunters.

I agree the Imperium in 40k has lost much, but the point I was making is that the Imperium in 30k still used the "newer", simpler designs to some extent and in a form similar to their 40k counterparts. Clearly there was a variety of tactics and fleet types in use. For example, the grand cruisers are generally ancient vessels, yet most of them are slow brawlers rather than quick snipers like the Chaos vessels, which fits much more with the Mars/Jovian school. In addition, Mars and Jupiter are some of the earliest shipyards available to the Great Crusade, so it stands to reason many vessels were produced in that style.

**Haighus**

There are Voss-pattern battleship prow designs as well- the Apocalypse/Oberon model has the Voss prow.

Are Cypra Mundi vessels more prone to warp corruption, or is that superstition and they merely make better raiding vessels and were therefore targeted by traitors before they unveiled their true colours? Speed and independence from logistical supply are important for pirate activity.

**Haighus**

Iracundus wrote:
Haighus wrote:
There are Voss-pattern battleship prow designs as well- the Apocalypse/Oberon model has the Voss prow.

Are Cypra Mundi vessels more prone to warp corruption, or is that superstition and they merely make better raiding vessels and were therefore targeted by traitors before they unveiled their true colours? Speed and independence from logistical supply are important for pirate activity.

The Apocalypse class had the option to have a torpedo prow instead of the nova cannon, and this prow would have looked like the Retribution style prow. There can be all sorts of variations to the original ships depending on where they are assigned, battle damage, etc... No nova cannon in the entire sector to replace the destroyed one? Let's put torpedoes on instead and get the ship back out there.

Some ship designs did seem more prone to corruption though a more thorough reading of the BFG background also suggests other more mundane reasons. The Warp Storm BFG supplement has a section on Styx class carriers and how some captains denounced the Imperium as they found their ships neglected in terms of refitting and rearming compared to the newer Martian style battlecruisers. The reasons may be political but perhaps also technical. Maybe the older ships were neglected because the Tech Priests couldn't maintain and refit them anymore but did not want to admit it.

That is the kind of stuff I was thinking- factors not based in some warp flaw, but in reasons that favour the crew going rogue. I think there are a couple of classes that did seem to have an issue with warp contamination, but cannot remember which off the top of my head.

Neglect due to technical decline and political factors feels very likely.