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Hello ...

I've mentioned multiple times, so sorry for being a broken record, but FYI, noob here, never played 40K.

Anyway, I decided to create a space marine army, and I bought a tactical squad and have mostly-painted them now (just the special weapons and sergeant to go).

However, as I've learned more, I've become a bit disillusioned with the idea of space marines. This is mostly due to the whole Primaris thing and much of the army ending up on 40mm bases (I think even 32mm is pushing it).

So the thought occurs that I could go Chaos ... which is cool for a few reasons. It seems unlikely that there's going to be a "Primaris" equivilant for CSM, the models are mostly on 32mm bases, it's a slightly more "original" army than SM, I can have a bit more fun painting demons and weirdos like "noise marines", and they have more "normal sized" options like cultists, etc.

But will I just be repeating the same mistake, I wonder?

I will finish up the tactical SM squad while I think about it, but wanted to get some opinions on pros/cons from you experienced guys before I rush out and buy a box.

CSM do give you the most freedom background wise. Game wise it is a different matter. I do like them for stuff like kill team and using in other companies rulesets.

Avoid CSM entirely. Their background is cool but the army constantly suffers from poor rules.

If you really want to stick with Firstborn your best bet is to play Horus Heresy but it's a different kettle of fish to 40k in a fair few ways.

 Gert wrote:
Avoid CSM entirely. Their background is cool but the army constantly suffers from poor rules.

If you really want to stick with Firstborn your best bet is to play Horus Heresy but it's a different kettle of fish to 40k in a fair few ways.

What so you mens by poor rules? Can you give some examples? Thanks for the reply.

Most of my issues come from the continuing restriction of Wargear choices (9th was especially bad), the poor state of Legion rules in 8th and 9th, and the 10th army ability which so far is the only one that can actively cause harm to your units.
CSM hasn't been able to compete with their Loyalist counterparts for some time and has languished with only a few builds or units that make them even remotely fun (not competitive, fun) to play. It also suffers quite badly from a lack of vision for what GW wants the faction to even be and compared to its AoS counterpart (Slaves to Darkness) it's been a poor show of an army for some time.
I've played around with a bunch of different themes and armies since 6th and the only time I really enjoyed myself was when Khorne Daemonkin and the Traitor Legions supplement came out at the tail end of 7th ed only to be removed a few months later when 8th dropped.

Paint as Renegades, (no overly Chaos Iconography) and play as both.

I did a similar thing to my Imperial Knights so I ccan play as Chaos if I wanted.

Thanks for all the info guys.

Question - can I field Chaos Demons & Chaos Space Marines together in one army? If yes, is there any news as to whether that will still be an option in the "simplified" 10th Ed.?

I ask just because looking at some photos, I see armies with demons & CSM together ...


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 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Paint as Renegades, (no overly Chaos Iconography) and play as both.

I did a similar thing to my Imperial Knights so I ccan play as Chaos if I wanted.

I think if I'm going Chaos, I'm doing it properly.

In 9th you couldn't without losing rules but with 10th there's an allotment of points allowed for Daemons to be taken in another Chaos army.
Honestly at this point just wait until 10th comes out before doing anything.

 Gert wrote:
In 9th you couldn't without losing rules but with 10th there's an allotment of points allowed for Daemons to be taken in another Chaos army.
Honestly at this point just wait until 10th comes out before doing anything.

Probably good advice. It's more I just want to paint something - but I have other models for D&D and stuff.

Question ... when 10th drops, will we get army lists for all factions? Or is going to be like another 12 months or something until I know exactly what I can do with whatever army?

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:


However, as I've learned more, I've become a bit disillusioned with the idea of space marines. This is mostly due to the whole Primaris thing and much of the army ending up on 40mm bases (I think even 32mm is pushing it).

I have been seeing you seemingly say that Primaris are largely on 40mm bases. With this thread, that only opens up more questions to me. Which Primaris models do you think are on 40mm bases? What size bases do you think Intercessors, Assault Intercessors and Hellblasters are on?

Because most non-Gravis, non-character infantry of Primaris are still on 32mm bases. This means most Primaris infantry are, indeed, on 32mm bases. And the stuff that's on 40mm is going to be the same if you go Chaos Space Marine. Characters are on 40mm in for CSM too. And terminators (the closest Gravis equivalent and not that close IMO either) are on 40mm bases. Switching sides doesn't really get you out of this pickle.

And I mean sure, the older models on 25mm or the occasional 32mm bases they came with are generally fine with most players. And as far as I know, GW hasn't officially come out and said don't use the older base sizes with the models that came with it. But the fact is, 32mm for the light and medium marine infantry and 40mm for the heavy marine infantry is where the game is regardless of loyalists, renegade or Chaos.

And I think these base sizes are an excellent proportional fit for the models. It was tough giving up my 25mm bases as I don't like basing. But I can't argue that the models are worse for it. Well, maybe my old CSM would have been on 32mm. But even MkIII and MkIV Horus Heresy marines look better on 32mm bases to me. And play a heck of a lot better on uneven terrain, too. Long gone are the non-Tyranid models dwarfing the tiny, little base they're on. Especially space marines of any type and kind.


Maybe I'm the one missing something here, not reading all that close. But your posts sound like you think Primaris are mostly on 40mm bases. And sure, Heavy Intercessors, Aggressors and Inceptors are. But all of those models are pretty bulky and fit better on 40mm bases to maintain model to base proportionality. And the only thing that comes to mind similar is Terminators. With the new edition box, are going to be around for a long time. Maybe you're think Assault Marines and Inceptors? Sadly, I don't think they're close enough to be count-as, or at least if everyone is fine with Assault Marines counting as Inceptors, the bases probably aren't going to be the issue.

I'm just very confused by how base sizes are throwing you for a loop.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:


However, as I've learned more, I've become a bit disillusioned with the idea of space marines. This is mostly due to the whole Primaris thing and much of the army ending up on 40mm bases (I think even 32mm is pushing it).

I have been seeing you seemingly say that Primaris are largely on 40mm bases. With this thread, that only opens up more questions to me. Which Primaris models do you think are on 40mm bases? What size bases do you think Intercessors, Assault Intercessors and Hellblasters are on?

Because most non-Gravis, non-character infantry of Primaris are still on 32mm bases. This means most Primaris infantry are, indeed, on 32mm bases. And the stuff that's on 40mm is going to be the same if you go Chaos Space Marine. Characters are on 40mm in for CSM too. And terminators (the closest Gravis equivalent and not that close IMO either) are on 40mm bases. Switching sides doesn't really get you out of this pickle.

Yeah, to be honest I just noticed this myself and posted something similar in one of the other threads (I think my one about SMs?). I'm a noob. I thought I read someone here say they were all on 40mm bases. I don't mind them on 32mm bases at all - they are 8 feet tall and dressed in power armour, so it makes sense. I just don't like the general direction (and it IS a general direction with GW - in BloodBowl even the halfling players are on 32mm bases ... and they're huge models ...). But anyway, I shouldn't complain. Primaris at least are fine on 32mm bases in my book.

If it's just Primaris and other "larger than human" models on bigger bases, and they don't just keep getting bigger and bigger, then that's fine with me.

But FWIW, it's more than just the base & miniature size that's turned me off them a bit. It's the whole "Primaris" thing. The whole idea just seems silly. They should have just made new models & rules for regular old SMs. Anyway, it's useless complaining about it now I guess. Plus I kind of liked that Chaos SM's are a bit more original and could have some fun with some wild paint jobs. But meh.

TLDR: I think you are right.




...

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:
Question ... when 10th drops, will we get army lists for all factions? Or is going to be like another 12 months or something until I know exactly what I can do with whatever army?

GW has said there will be get-you-by lists for all armies until their Codex supercedes them.

With regard to bases, you need to get over it because Marines being on 32mm has been a thing for ages now. They largely hung over the edges for 25mm and 28.5mm are newer than 32mm bases so it wasn't an option.

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:
Hello ...

I've mentioned multiple times, so sorry for being a broken record, but FYI, noob here, never played 40K.

Anyway, I decided to create a space marine army, and I bought a tactical squad and have mostly-painted them now (just the special weapons and sergeant to go).

However, as I've learned more, I've become a bit disillusioned with the idea of space marines. This is mostly due to the whole Primaris thing and much of the army ending up on 40mm bases (I think even 32mm is pushing it).

So the thought occurs that I could go Chaos ... which is cool for a few reasons. It seems unlikely that there's going to be a "Primaris" equivilant for CSM, the models are mostly on 32mm bases, it's a slightly more "original" army than SM, I can have a bit more fun painting demons and weirdos like "noise marines", and they have more "normal sized" options like cultists, etc.

But will I just be repeating the same mistake, I wonder?

I will finish up the tactical SM squad while I think about it, but wanted to get some opinions on pros/cons from you experienced guys before I rush out and buy a box.

Primaris is slowly fading. I personally believe they introduced Primaris to jump start sales for the Marine line as people who have played Marines for a long time no longer needed to buy anything. Now a few years later, the table distinction between Primaris and Firstborn is going away, the Firstborn unit of Sternguard is showing up in Mark X Primaris armor. I suspect the next phase was to Legends the Firstborn, but the pushback changed things. Now I think you're going to see quite replacement through new kits - with an eventual +1A for C:SM (and any left over First Born) that may already even be there (The Primaris Sternguard may just be "Sternguard" and you can mix and match old and new models in the same unit for example and they have the same stats)

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

I think if I'm going Chaos, I'm doing it properly.

A suggestion. The Red Corsairs. They were the Astral Claws, but are now Excommunicate Traitoris after they started the Babab War. A small core of survivors with the crippled body of their chapter master fled into the Maelstrom and pledged themselves to Chaos. This happened in the early 41st millennium, unlike the Horus Heresy, so it shows the rot that led to the Horus Heresy still exists in the Imperium.

Just a different Chaos option than going with the more traditional Traitor Legions.

 Gert wrote:

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:
Question ... when 10th drops, will we get army lists for all factions? Or is going to be like another 12 months or something until I know exactly what I can do with whatever army?

GW has said there will be get-you-by lists for all armies until their Codex supercedes them.

With regard to bases, you need to get over it because Marines being on 32mm has been a thing for ages now. They largely hung over the edges for 25mm and 28.5mm are newer than 32mm bases so it wasn't an option.

I have never suggested putting Primaris marines on 25mm bases.


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 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

I think if I'm going Chaos, I'm doing it properly.

A suggestion. The Red Corsairs. They were the Astral Claws, but are now Excommunicate Traitoris after they started the Babab War. A small core of survivors with the crippled body of their chapter master fled into the Maelstrom and pledged themselves to Chaos. This happened in the early 41st millennium, unlike the Horus Heresy, so it shows the rot that led to the Horus Heresy still exists in the Imperium.

Just a different Chaos option than going with the more traditional Traitor Legions.

Sounds interesting & I will Google, although I'd probably just make up my own.

I have built and played as nearly every SM chapter over the years some more than twice before finally moving on to CSM and never looking back.

Amyway my advice is build and paint for immersion. Rules change but if your playing what you like it will hurt less when the rules are poor. And then owning multiple armies helps too.

dominuschao wrote:
Amyway my advice is build and paint for immersion. Rules change but if your playing what you like it will hurt less when the rules are poor.

Great advice I feel.

I'm in a large part just for the painting and modelling; although I do like the idea of playing the game too. But creating a cool looking army is a big part of it for me.

I agree the best idea is to pick the idea you like and go with that.

Failing that, its a new edition in about a month. If you are concerned about where rules will lead you, just wait 2-3 more weeks (and potentially less) until the not-Indexes are inevitably leaked everywhere.

 The Pig-Faced Orc wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
Amyway my advice is build and paint for immersion. Rules change but if your playing what you like it will hurt less when the rules are poor.

Great advice I feel.

I'm in a large part just for the painting and modelling; although I do like the idea of playing the game too. But creating a cool looking army is a big part of it for me.

Just... think outside the box if you like the painting and modelling. Both loyal and chaos marines offer s great blank tapestry. Make your own chapter/do your own thing.

My next marine project (maybe flesh tearers, maybe 13th company) is 'damned space marines'.

Like the 13th co. From the eye of terror campaign soooo long ago - they were built from a mix of loyalist and chaos marine sprues.

So the plan is basically to kitbash the csm and loyal sm sprues (might also consider the space wolf wulfen sprue) for a force that is essentially 'damned'. Not renegade (in their eyes. But probably on their way) and hopefully a very unique look. Also rules agnostic!