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I haven't gone through the full rules yet, so I'm not sure if it's explained further on in the rules or not, but one thing that is bothering me and doesn't seem to be explained, is who actually gets to fight first if both the attacking unit and the defending unit have the "Fights First" rule?

Non-active. Every step he does first activation.

tneva82 wrote:
Non-active. Every step he does first activation.

Wait really? So you get shafted even if your unit also has fight first of you charge an enemy unit that also has fight first? That would be really, really dumb because then there would be ansolutely nothing you can do against a unit with fight first if you want to charge it.

Edit: so if you're a melee army and don't have access to fight first you are basically screwed? That's going to be erratad for sure, even GW isn't that dumb.

Tiberias wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Non-active. Every step he does first activation.

Wait really? So you get shafted even if your unit also has fight first of you charge an enemy unit that also has fight first? That would be really, really dumb because then there would be ansolutely nothing you can do against a unit with fight first if you want to charge it.

Edit: so if you're a melee army and don't have access to fight first you are basically screwed? That's going to be erratad for sure, even GW isn't that dumb.

Well, you still can do multiple charges forcing your opponent to do some tough decisions(hopefully )

Tiberias wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Non-active. Every step he does first activation.

Wait really? So you get shafted even if your unit also has fight first of you charge an enemy unit that also has fight first? That would be really, really dumb because then there would be ansolutely nothing you can do against a unit with fight first if you want to charge it.

Edit: so if you're a melee army and don't have access to fight first you are basically screwed? That's going to be erratad for sure, even GW isn't that dumb.

Well fight first doesn't mean you automatically kill unit by snap of finger no effort required.

We aren't playing harry potter.

tneva82 wrote:

Tiberias wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Non-active. Every step he does first activation.

Wait really? So you get shafted even if your unit also has fight first of you charge an enemy unit that also has fight first? That would be really, really dumb because then there would be ansolutely nothing you can do against a unit with fight first if you want to charge it.

Edit: so if you're a melee army and don't have access to fight first you are basically screwed? That's going to be erratad for sure, even GW isn't that dumb.

Well fight first doesn't mean you automatically kill unit by snap of finger no effort required.

We aren't playing harry potter.

Yeah I just knew that an argument like that was going to come.....realistically you are going to have fight first on a good unit

So what's worst on judicator for example? No other characters can be so forget any character giving lethal hits, rends, devastating wounds etc.

Attacks gone down, rend gone down, dam valuns been going up, toughnessbeen going up, armies like ba lost +1 to wound...

As its 10th isshooty ed.

tneva82 wrote:
So what's worst on judicator for example? No other characters can be so forget any character giving lethal hits, rends, devastating wounds etc.

Attacks gone down, rend gone down, dam valuns been going up, toughnessbeen going up, armies like ba lost +1 to wound...

As its 10th isshooty ed.

Realistically you are going to have fight first on a good unit or have a character that provides this rule in a good unit, which means this unit doesn't have have to care about being charged ever because it's going to guaranteed strike first and cripple the attacker.
So as the opposing player you have absolutely no incentive to go near that unit and you have to shoot it if you can. If that isn't bad rules design then I honestly don't know what is.

Tiberias wrote:

Realistically you are going to have fight first on a good unit or have a character that provides this rule in a good unit, which means this unit doesn't have have to care about being charged ever because it's going to guaranteed strike first and cripple the attacker.
So as the opposing player you have absolutely no incentive to go near that unit and you have to shoot it if you can. If that isn't bad rules design then I honestly don't know what is.

or you lean into the counterplay of weapons with precision to snipe out the Judicar, or multi-charge and ensure he can't wipe out both units, or feed him chaff to keep him busy, or any of several new or existing tactics to deal with melee blenders. Im not sure why design that encourages "not fighting a melee blender in melee" is bad design.

also, everyone is a lot less lethal than they were. by my quikmaff, 6 bladeguard would struggle to kill themselves in melee, so its not like hes unstoppable.

what this does encourage is more aggressive play by melee units as you can now risk being counter-charged.