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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 14:02:27
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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I get the it that the only real communication they want with us is to give us the genestealer deep throat kiss, but do they have the ability to communicate at any other level than that?
Even the Borg can say "you will be assimilated", but are the nids capable of communicating on even that level?
Why would they?
Well, let's put it in very straightforward terms.
Say a guy decides to mug you, draws a knife and tells you to give him your money or he's taking it from your corpse.
However, let's say he suddenly finds himself overmatched. You pull out your pocket pistol, or you're a hand to hand combat expert, or your two buddies, who you just happened to be meeting for dinner this evening, just turned the corner and saw this little confrontation.
Our mugger now has a serious problem, This gig didn't go anywhere near as well as he hoped it would. He is definitely not having the best day of his life.
Let's say further that he's in a position that he can't run from either. Maybe he trips trying to get away and twists his ankle. Or you've just had a really bad day, and feel like taking him out for good.
There is an enormous amount of survival value in our mugger being able to surrender and beg for his life. Sure he's not having the best day of his life, but it certainly beats getting killed in reprisal.
So, spin this some thirty eight thousand years into the future. You're the Hive Mind and you've just had your  handed to you. The Space Marines and Eldar have just given you a severe  whuppin', and you've broken into splinter fleets in the hopes that you can accomplish by guerilla warfare what you couldn't by direct assault.
But what if that doesn't work?
What if the humans, eldar, orks and whoever else you've manage to annoy just decides that pest control is the only way to handle you?
My point is this: If the Tyranids absolutely CANNOT negotiate or communicate on any level above the genestealer kiss, isn't that a pretty good argument that they are not an intelligent species, but just extremely evolved predators? I know that this is a question Heinlein left unanswered in Starship Troopers. Were the bugs intelligent enough that once we had beaten them, we could find some way to communicate and coexist, or as Rico said, would we just have to wipe out ever bug in space?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/16 14:06:48
First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 14:42:06
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Tyranids 100% can communicate.
Genestealer Cults are proof of that. You've your Patriarch at the top who is a direct line to the Hive Mind and such; and then trickling down through the cult you've got varied levels. From pureblood at the very top through to people who just want to believe in a better life and aren't even genetically altered.
I think the big difference is that the Tyranids just don't see a need. They will use cults to weaken threats, but they don't see a need to negotiate.
You don't sit down to have a heart-to-heart talk with your trout. You cook it and eat it and that's that. Even if they prey is dangerous, you weaken it and then kill it, but you aren't going to debate about territories or trading nor alliances with your food.
Tyranids are just on a whole other level and way of thinking. They know how we communicate; they can reach out and communicate and they do make use of it. But they don't have any need to form a relationship.
Tyranids are not seeking to balance their existence with other life; to them the Galaxy is a source of food to be devoured and then move on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 20:12:03
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Stormin' Stompa
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Overread wrote:Tyranids 100% can communicate.
Genestealer Cults are proof of that. You've your Patriarch at the top who is a direct line to the Hive Mind and such; and then trickling down through the cult you've got varied levels. From pureblood at the very top through to people who just want to believe in a better life and aren't even genetically altered.
I think the big difference is that the Tyranids just don't see a need. They will use cults to weaken threats, but they don't see a need to negotiate.
You don't sit down to have a heart-to-heart talk with your trout. You cook it and eat it and that's that. Even if they prey is dangerous, you weaken it and then kill it, but you aren't going to debate about territories or trading nor alliances with your food.
Tyranids are just on a whole other level and way of thinking. They know how we communicate; they can reach out and communicate and they do make use of it. But they don't have any need to form a relationship.
Tyranids are not seeking to balance their existence with other life; to them the Galaxy is a source of food to be devoured and then move on.
you could argue that this is still not the hive mind itself communicating. A patriarch is merely a singular intelligence produced by the hive mind designed to think and communicate with other base level intelligences. Intelligence as we know might not be necessary for galactic consumption. In specific scenarios, pressures will lead the hive mind to produce organisms that anticipate other creature's thought processes and devise tactics for manipulating other singular organism's behaviors. Once this task is complete, the 'thinking' organisms are dismantled until needed again. If the hive mind itself is a thinking thing, it's in a way completely foreign to us. It probably thinks that humans are incapable of communication.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 20:47:52
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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I think at its core the Hive Mind is capable of communication and comprehension. It can understand humans and other races; it can comprehend their actions and predict their potential reactions. It can communicate with them and direct them in a way that humans, and other races, can comprehend.
So I'd argue it can communicate and comprehend.
It simply has no reason to negotiate or engage with treating other races as equal to itself. Or perhaps it does and its simply seeking to return you to the greater whole of itself as it does within itself.
Whatever its thinking and motivators we still only scratch the surface concepts of "its hungry and wants to feed"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 21:07:27
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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Zoats still their ambassadors/emissaries?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 21:19:49
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Stormin' Stompa
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I think they're refugees now.
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Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 21:54:02
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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There have been several occasions where Tyranids and Humans have communicated. Off the top of my head there's a short story (Originally from Epic: Hive War but reprinted a few times since) where Kryptman has a psyker called Borshak pick up a devourer and commune with it. It's too powerful and takes over Borshak, but while he's running around shooting at Kryptman, Borshak is narrating the thoughts of the Devourer's component creatures.
There's also the BL story Heart of Rage, which I believe has a mechanicus magos being somehow controlled by a Hive Tyrant, and goes on a villain monologue?
and that's not counting the Zoats and Mindslaves and Feeder Tendrils (which are arguably the Humans "communicating" knowledge to the Tyranids, albeit unwillingly) and just regular straight-up Telepathy
Venturing into the realms of utter weirdness and dubious canonicity there were also some Mark Gibbons concept sketches for a "Hive Mind Librarian" that used tech and a decapitated Tyranid Warrior head to psychically divine the movements of the Hive Fleets, but that didn't get turned into an actual model or any lore
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/16 23:57:18
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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Overread wrote:Tyranids 100% can communicate.
Genestealer Cults are proof of that. You've your Patriarch at the top who is a direct line to the Hive Mind and such; and then trickling down through the cult you've got varied levels. From pureblood at the very top through to people who just want to believe in a better life and aren't even genetically altered.
You're absolutely right of course, and I should have made the point about the genestealer more clearly.
So what if the last Hive Tyrant in the universe is approached by a couple of Terminator marines, clapping their right powerfist onto their left armored glove, and saying, "You in a heap a' trouble boy..."
Does he try to communicate then? Or just go down fighting, like a cornered tiger would? Automatically Appended Next Post: Mr Nobody wrote: Overread wrote:Tyranids 100% can communicate.
Genestealer Cults are proof of that. You've your Patriarch at the top who is a direct line to the Hive Mind and such; and then trickling down through the cult you've got varied levels. From pureblood at the very top through to people who just want to believe in a better life and aren't even genetically altered.
I think the big difference is that the Tyranids just don't see a need. They will use cults to weaken threats, but they don't see a need to negotiate.
You don't sit down to have a heart-to-heart talk with your trout. You cook it and eat it and that's that. Even if they prey is dangerous, you weaken it and then kill it, but you aren't going to debate about territories or trading nor alliances with your food.
Tyranids are just on a whole other level and way of thinking. They know how we communicate; they can reach out and communicate and they do make use of it. But they don't have any need to form a relationship.
Tyranids are not seeking to balance their existence with other life; to them the Galaxy is a source of food to be devoured and then move on.
you could argue that this is still not the hive mind itself communicating. A patriarch is merely a singular intelligence produced by the hive mind designed to think and communicate with other base level intelligences. Intelligence as we know might not be necessary for galactic consumption. In specific scenarios, pressures will lead the hive mind to produce organisms that anticipate other creature's thought processes and devise tactics for manipulating other singular organism's behaviors. Once this task is complete, the 'thinking' organisms are dismantled until needed again. If the hive mind itself is a thinking thing, it's in a way completely foreign to us. It probably thinks that humans are incapable of communication.
Good point. Can the Patriarch communicate, in any real sense, any more than the Hive Tyrant can (I make the assumption here that it can't)?
And, if it can, is it really the Tyranid communicating, or just some residue of humanity that the Hive puts to its own use? Automatically Appended Next Post: Overread wrote:I think at its core the Hive Mind is capable of communication and comprehension. It can understand humans and other races; it can comprehend their actions and predict their potential reactions. It can communicate with them and direct them in a way that humans, and other races, can comprehend.
So I'd argue it can communicate and comprehend.
It simply has no reason to negotiate or engage with treating other races as equal to itself. Or perhaps it does and its simply seeking to return you to the greater whole of itself as it does within itself.
Whatever its thinking and motivators we still only scratch the surface concepts of "its hungry and wants to feed"
Cosmic dude! Automatically Appended Next Post: Mr Nobody wrote: Overread wrote:Tyranids 100% can communicate.
Genestealer Cults are proof of that. You've your Patriarch at the top who is a direct line to the Hive Mind and such; and then trickling down through the cult you've got varied levels. From pureblood at the very top through to people who just want to believe in a better life and aren't even genetically altered.
I think the big difference is that the Tyranids just don't see a need. They will use cults to weaken threats, but they don't see a need to negotiate.
You don't sit down to have a heart-to-heart talk with your trout. You cook it and eat it and that's that. Even if they prey is dangerous, you weaken it and then kill it, but you aren't going to debate about territories or trading nor alliances with your food.
Tyranids are just on a whole other level and way of thinking. They know how we communicate; they can reach out and communicate and they do make use of it. But they don't have any need to form a relationship.
Tyranids are not seeking to balance their existence with other life; to them the Galaxy is a source of food to be devoured and then move on.
you could argue that this is still not the hive mind itself communicating. A patriarch is merely a singular intelligence produced by the hive mind designed to think and communicate with other base level intelligences. Intelligence as we know might not be necessary for galactic consumption. In specific scenarios, pressures will lead the hive mind to produce organisms that anticipate other creature's thought processes and devise tactics for manipulating other singular organism's behaviors. Once this task is complete, the 'thinking' organisms are dismantled until needed again. If the hive mind itself is a thinking thing, it's in a way completely foreign to us. It probably thinks that humans are incapable of communication.
That's my idea. Are they really intelligent beings, or just super-evolved predators that will use the intelligence of other beings as needed, and then discard it as genetic junk when they coquer everything and can just enjoy feeding? Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zoats were so cool! Any indication they still exist in... what's this one? 40k version 5479? Automatically Appended Next Post: Charax wrote:There have been several occasions where Tyranids and Humans have communicated. Off the top of my head there's a short story (Originally from Epic: Hive War but reprinted a few times since) where Kryptman has a psyker called Borshak pick up a devourer and commune with it. It's too powerful and takes over Borshak, but while he's running around shooting at Kryptman, Borshak is narrating the thoughts of the Devourer's component creatures.
There's also the BL story Heart of Rage, which I believe has a mechanicus magos being somehow controlled by a Hive Tyrant, and goes on a villain monologue?
and that's not counting the Zoats and Mindslaves and Feeder Tendrils (which are arguably the Humans "communicating" knowledge to the Tyranids, albeit unwillingly) and just regular straight-up Telepathy
Venturing into the realms of utter weirdness and dubious canonicity there were also some Mark Gibbons concept sketches for a "Hive Mind Librarian" that used tech and a decapitated Tyranid Warrior head to psychically divine the movements of the Hive Fleets, but that didn't get turned into an actual model or any lore
Very cool! Got some links for any of that stuff? Of course, how much of Black Library is canon is open to question, but they still sound like fun reads.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2023/06/17 00:11:02
First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/17 00:15:33
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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NapoleonInSpace wrote: Overread wrote:Tyranids 100% can communicate.
Genestealer Cults are proof of that. You've your Patriarch at the top who is a direct line to the Hive Mind and such; and then trickling down through the cult you've got varied levels. From pureblood at the very top through to people who just want to believe in a better life and aren't even genetically altered.
You're absolutely right of course, and I should have made the point about the genestealer more clearly.
So what if the last Hive Tyrant in the universe is approached by a couple of Terminator marines, clapping their right powerfist onto their left armored glove, and saying, "You in a heap a' trouble boy..."
Does he try to communicate then? Or just go down fighting, like a cornered tiger would?
In a sense it depends what he was made for.
Hive Tyrants are designed as generals. So at their core they are made to lead armies across the battlefield and make in-battle choices and soforth.
The Tyranids also create for specific situations, so in theory if they were losing up to that point there is a chance that the last Tyrant in a losing situation would calculate that surrender and diplomacy might be the superior option over simply attacking. Of course lore-wise whilst most video games depict them screaming, lore wise Tyranids are not supposed to have vocal chords. They are supposed to be silent save for breathing (in air, out spory air) and the thunder of their mostly hoofed legs.
So it might use telepathy instead of a voice, unless of course the Hive Mind gave it vocal chords for diplomatic purposes to try and survive. Of course that's leaning into an utterly extreme situation; Most Tyranids don't show that level of self-preservation because there are untold numbers of them elsewhere.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/18 20:23:54
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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Overread wrote: NapoleonInSpace wrote: Overread wrote:Tyranids 100% can communicate.
Genestealer Cults are proof of that. You've your Patriarch at the top who is a direct line to the Hive Mind and such; and then trickling down through the cult you've got varied levels. From pureblood at the very top through to people who just want to believe in a better life and aren't even genetically altered.
You're absolutely right of course, and I should have made the point about the genestealer more clearly.
So what if the last Hive Tyrant in the universe is approached by a couple of Terminator marines, clapping their right powerfist onto their left armored glove, and saying, "You in a heap a' trouble boy..."
Does he try to communicate then? Or just go down fighting, like a cornered tiger would?
In a sense it depends what he was made for.
Hive Tyrants are designed as generals. So at their core they are made to lead armies across the battlefield and make in-battle choices and soforth.
The Tyranids also create for specific situations, so in theory if they were losing up to that point there is a chance that the last Tyrant in a losing situation would calculate that surrender and diplomacy might be the superior option over simply attacking. Of course lore-wise whilst most video games depict them screaming, lore wise Tyranids are not supposed to have vocal chords. They are supposed to be silent save for breathing (in air, out spory air) and the thunder of their mostly hoofed legs.
So it might use telepathy instead of a voice, unless of course the Hive Mind gave it vocal chords for diplomatic purposes to try and survive. Of course that's leaning into an utterly extreme situation; Most Tyranids don't show that level of self-preservation because there are untold numbers of them elsewhere.
Hmm. Interesting take on it. Of course, the self preservation instincts of humans, orks,eldar, squats... well, maybe not squats, cuz the nids exterminated them (I hate GW) and everybody else would instantly kick in to fill that last Hive Tyrant full of lead, laser, thermite, plasma, rocks, and whatever else was handy to pound it to less than dust, so maybe even then, the nids should just go down fighting.
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First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/18 20:26:58
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Once upon a time, you had Tyranid Mind-Slaves. Essentially warriors from other species implanted with a bug that eventually controls their thoughts and actions.
That could, when desired, be a two way Street of sorts. Not the bug negotiating with its host. More the bug able to access the host’s knowledge and memories.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/19 20:41:05
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Once upon a time, you had Tyranid Mind-Slaves. Essentially warriors from other species implanted with a bug that eventually controls their thoughts and actions.
That could, when desired, be a two way Street of sorts. Not the bug negotiating with its host. More the bug able to access the host’s knowledge and memories.
That's a blast from the past. If I remember right, they were really unreliable, would occasionally break free from nid control, and the bug in their heads would explode and kill the infected ork, marine, or whatever.
Which issue of WD were those in? Anybody have a pdf? Thanks.
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First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/19 20:51:49
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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I have the WD, but sadly that specific page was chopped out!
I’ll check my back issues tomorrow and let you know the issue number.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/20 02:26:52
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I have the WD, but sadly that specific page was chopped out!
I’ll check my back issues tomorrow and let you know the issue number.
You are a gentleman sir!
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First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/20 22:16:34
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
UK
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It’s White Dwarf 145. I dug it out the other day to get me hyped for the new Nid army I’m gonna build with the leviathan stuff. It essentially serves as the Tyranid codex for RT. There’s a bunch of fluff, and a set of datacards for their available units.
Some highlights:
Termagants were called “Hunter Slayers.”
The Screamer Killer had a bear hug attack with a -6 save modifier.
Stealers and Patriarchs could hypnotise, and stealers could “implant genetic material” which took the enemy model out of the game entirely.
Zoats had access to fleshborers and having one in your list opened access to the Genestealer cult units.
The mind slaves could be Ork, Imperial Guard, or Chaos Space Marines. If they went out of synapse range they had to make a check Failing the check could result in their heads exploding or your opponent gaining control over the unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/22 06:14:55
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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General Kroll wrote:It’s White Dwarf 145. I dug it out the other day to get me hyped for the new Nid army I’m gonna build with the leviathan stuff. It essentially serves as the Tyranid codex for RT. There’s a bunch of fluff, and a set of datacards for their available units.
Some highlights:
Termagants were called “Hunter Slayers.”
The Screamer Killer had a bear hug attack with a -6 save modifier.
Stealers and Patriarchs could hypnotise, and stealers could “implant genetic material” which took the enemy model out of the game entirely.
Zoats had access to fleshborers and having one in your list opened access to the Genestealer cult units.
The mind slaves could be Ork, Imperial Guard, or Chaos Space Marines. If they went out of synapse range they had to make a check Failing the check could result in their heads exploding or your opponent gaining control over the unit.
Pretty much how I remember them. I think you could only get one squad of mind slaves in your Tyranid army?
Also, was that in the 40k Compilation, 1st ed?
Thanks again.
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First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/22 12:39:35
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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NapoleonInSpace wrote:I get the it that the only real communication they want with us is to give us the genestealer deep throat kiss, but do they have the ability to communicate at any other level than that?
Yes. I mean, that was the entire purpose of zoats. They were tyranid 'ambassadors'.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/22 22:06:45
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
UK
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NapoleonInSpace wrote: General Kroll wrote:It’s White Dwarf 145. I dug it out the other day to get me hyped for the new Nid army I’m gonna build with the leviathan stuff. It essentially serves as the Tyranid codex for RT. There’s a bunch of fluff, and a set of datacards for their available units.
Some highlights:
Termagants were called “Hunter Slayers.”
The Screamer Killer had a bear hug attack with a -6 save modifier.
Stealers and Patriarchs could hypnotise, and stealers could “implant genetic material” which took the enemy model out of the game entirely.
Zoats had access to fleshborers and having one in your list opened access to the Genestealer cult units.
The mind slaves could be Ork, Imperial Guard, or Chaos Space Marines. If they went out of synapse range they had to make a check Failing the check could result in their heads exploding or your opponent gaining control over the unit.
Pretty much how I remember them. I think you could only get one squad of mind slaves in your Tyranid army?
Also, was that in the 40k Compilation, 1st ed?
Thanks again.
Sorry not had a chance to check this till now. Yeah only 1 squad of mind salves allowed. Not sure about the compendium though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/23 00:19:08
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The OP begs the question. It assumes a voracious devourer of galaxies understands concepts like "mercy" or even "peace."
Growth is a form of warfare. A biological struggle for absolute supremecy. My yard is filled with plants who do nothing but strive to beat each other to the sunlight and water. The dandelions do not negotiate with the grass. That's how the Tyranids operate.
Now they've learned that humans and other races can be manipulated with certain phrases, and they know how to use them to their own advantage. However, they have no more concern for the people on the receiving end than we do when we spread the weed 'n' feed.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/23 00:20:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/23 00:45:50
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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I assume it understands them on a purely logical level. We know Tyranids devour knowledge alongside all else and such concepts are useful to better improve their tactics (know your enemy/prey and all that). Probably cannot empathize with those concepts though.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/23 00:46:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/23 01:02:11
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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Deadnight wrote: NapoleonInSpace wrote:I get the it that the only real communication they want with us is to give us the genestealer deep throat kiss, but do they have the ability to communicate at any other level than that?
Yes. I mean, that was the entire purpose of zoats. They were tyranid 'ambassadors'.
Hmm. I which edition? In First, IIRC, they were more "champions of the oppressed" though that was a Tyranid deception. Automatically Appended Next Post: Tyran wrote:I assume it understands them on a purely logical level. We know Tyranids devour knowledge alongside all else and such concepts are useful to better improve their tactics (know your enemy/prey and all that).
Probably cannot empathize with those concepts though.
I like that. Interesting way of looking at it. Automatically Appended Next Post: Commissar von Toussaint wrote:The OP begs the question. It assumes a voracious devourer of galaxies understands concepts like "mercy" or even "peace."
Growth is a form of warfare. A biological struggle for absolute supremecy. My yard is filled with plants who do nothing but strive to beat each other to the sunlight and water. The dandelions do not negotiate with the grass. That's how the Tyranids operate.
Now they've learned that humans and other races can be manipulated with certain phrases, and they know how to use them to their own advantage. However, they have no more concern for the people on the receiving end than we do when we spread the weed 'n' feed.
Could be, but by that theory, are we necessarily any different? Do we have any real empathy, or do we just fake it, maybe even to ourselves, to get the good stuff?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/23 01:05:45
First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/23 01:16:06
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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I mean if you feel it then it is real. Like sure if we want to be technical it is our brain chemistry conditioning us to be more social because our social nature is an evolutionary advantage, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/23 08:58:31
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Commissar von Toussaint wrote:The OP begs the question. It assumes a voracious devourer of galaxies understands concepts like "mercy" or even "peace."
Growth is a form of warfare. A biological struggle for absolute supremecy. My yard is filled with plants who do nothing but strive to beat each other to the sunlight and water. The dandelions do not negotiate with the grass. That's how the Tyranids operate.
Now they've learned that humans and other races can be manipulated with certain phrases, and they know how to use them to their own advantage. However, they have no more concern for the people on the receiving end than we do when we spread the weed 'n' feed.
Expecting the Tyranid Hive Mind to care about communicating or negotiating with humans is like the bacteria on a burger patty expecting a person to communicate and negotiate with them about the ethics of eating the burger.
Individual Tyranids can make decisions about local tactical situations but that is similar to how a human's immune cells can react autonomously to local stimuli in their cellular environment, without the actual conscious input of the human.
The intelligent Tyranids and the Hive Mind understand the concept of psychological warfare and terror tactics, and the usefulness of such things. Ethics doesn't seem to come into play at all.
An old Tyranid story where I think it was Tigurius psychically tapped into the Hive Mind and grasped its goal as "To feed. To grow. To survive and survive forever". Issues of morality or social interactions may never have truly occurred to the Hive Mind as it may have been alone throughout its existence, and never needed to co-exist with any others as it has met no equals, having ultimately devoured anything it previously met. It has never needed to get along with others. The Hive Mind is intelligent, but its purpose seems to be primal and basic. Other existential issues or things like culture may just be meaningless nonsense to it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/23 09:00:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/23 16:45:59
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Hive Mind is a kid with a magnifying glass, and you're the ants.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/23 19:34:31
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
UK
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I’ve always viewed the Tyranids as akin to the immune system. A Hormagaunt doesn’t know why it’s attacking a guardsman any more than a white blood cell knows why it’s attacking a virus cell.
They’re all just part of a much larger intergalactic entity, sweeping through the Milky Way isn’t some grand plan, it’s just them existing, and the races of the 40K universe just happen to be in the way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/28 02:30:57
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Columbus, Ohio
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I'm guessing that's just hyperbole, but if not, I don't think I agree with it.
I just finished a bowl of chicken stew. I enjoyed it. However, I felt no malice toward the chicken, nor the rice, onions and peppers for that matter.
A kid with a magnifying glass is, IMO, just practicing needless cruelty. I think cruelty is the province of Chaos and the Dark Eldar,in the 40K universe, and perhaps some insanity within humanity.
But the nids? They are not cruel. They just want to eat.
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First, all means to conciliate; failing that, all means to crush.
-Cardinal Richelieu |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/28 09:14:59
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Fun thing is we don't actually know that all they want to do is eat. Humanity in the 40K setting really has no idea what the Tyranids want. All they know are what it does and how it acts, we have no real concept as to the why.
We presume they just want to feed, and yet there are many worlds, suns and resources out there which they seem to pass by. 3rd edition codex does mention them consuming gas giants and suns, but since then we've not really had much mention of it and they've focused almost exclusively on simply stripping habitable worlds of readily accessible biological material.
Even draining worlds of life in their pathway doesn't actually fully stop a hive fleet. If they just wanted food they'd have shifted away from deadzones; and yet they charged further into the deadzone even when the worlds were stripped of easily consumed biomass.
Tyranids also fight specifically against Demons, with another hive fleet often dropping in biomass deliveries to keep the demonic focused forces well fed (since demons don't provide biomass when they die).
Then there's that planet sized construction that they've built for a purpose no one knows save that it projects as huge Shadow in the Warp over a vast area.
We can see what the Tyranids do; we can guess why; but we are seeing an incomplete picture. We know they feed, we call it a hunger, but we don't truly know
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/06/28 16:02:54
Subject: Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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The recent Leviathan novel has the Tyranids manipulate humans by feeding them falsified visions, illusions and outright mind control. I guess that can be considered a way of communication.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/28 16:03:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/01 19:36:37
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm just reminded in the Hyperion series that they'd successfully found the abilities to communicate with whales, and when a character did it was mostly:
"Old songs- new songs- gone, not gone- the deep, the deep.." Yeah, no chat between whales/ humans came out feeling productive for either.
So, a hive mind trying to communicate would be like "Warrior#456engageSynapseunitDeleted,Recalculate-SendingWarrior#457-460toDesignateX670Y890onTertiartyWorld#678"... Yeah, I made it more computer-like for comprehension, but you'd be listening to all the directions to individual units in an area- and the only real motive would be consume bio-mass.
And zoats are kinda sorta still around in Blackstone:
I was under the impression they were an independent species before the 'Nids assimilated them, who had the ability to manufacture pheromones to aide in talking to others. But, since the Hive Mind allowed them to have a bit of autonomy, they eventually broke free and now are on their own.
For Genstealers cults- they're all fed propoganda that the "Four armed Emperor" will save them, but they're just there to soften up a planet for the hives. I think the Bugz will ignore them (Like Ripley in 3/ Resurrection) if it suits their purpose, BUUUUT once the planet is going to be eaten, they get munched on as well unless they can find away off-planet with refugees to start infiltrating another planet..
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/01 19:37:34
"Cold is the Emperor's way of telling us to burn more heretics." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/03 02:34:35
Subject: Re:Can humans and Tyranids communicate?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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I think the answer is No.
At least not in the way you most likely mean.
Communication implies a deliberate transfer of an idea between two entities that both can comprehend the idea. I don't think the Tyranids are capable of doing that at all. They are so far beyond any mortal concepts that the mortals can't even hope to initiate anything, nor would the hive mind be capable of initiating anything itself.
The Tyranids are driven by a basic desire to consume and reproduce that mortals can sort of understand, but they understand it and feel it on a scale that makes it something different entirely. The Hive Mind is an eldrich horror beyond comprehension. Communication is impossible.
You might fool yourself into thinking you have communicated with the Hive Mind by looking into its psychic eminations and having some back and forth with it, but those visions are just the noise generated by it's mere existence. It might reveal secrets about the Hive Mind, but thinking it is in any way communication is a gross misrepresentation.
The Hive Mind isn't to a human what a human is to an ant. It is a human to the single celled bacterium that live on the surface of a small parasite that lives on an ant.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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