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So, the sub was not approved by any sort of reputable organization or agency and someone within the company voiced concern over its reliability, and was fired.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/20 22:11:16
Gert wrote: There are no thoughts because the notion that its like looking for an astronaut in space is entirely accurate.
Spoiler:
There's no light, immense levels of pressure and the boat crew can't get a signal to the sub. If these muppets survive this I'll be shocked.
To put it into practical perspective, the Titanic was a wreck that was 250 metres long, broken in two halves that came to rest at about 600 metres distances from each other, with a field of debris covering about two square miles. Finding it took 70 years, and people had a relatively good idea of where they should search for it.
My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/21 00:46:03
Commissar von Toussaint wrote: My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
That's something I wondered about. I would have figured they would have been in constant contact with the ship they launched from, automatically sending back realtime location data and whatnot.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Commissar von Toussaint wrote: My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
That's something I wondered about. I would have figured they would have been in constant contact with the ship they launched from, automatically sending back realtime location data and whatnot.
From what I know about operating at these depths that is incredibly difficult. The sheer volume of water between the surface and the subs makes wireless communication almost impossible and wire trailing out the back is unfeasible. You could keep comms reliable with a powerful enough transmitter, but space is precious in deep sea subs and its not a viable thing to do.
The comparison to space is kinda apt, but in some ways it is actually more dangerous than space. Vacuum wont immediately kill you.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Apparently there may be some hope left, search party have located something making noises underwater (probably with hydrophones, which can be deployed by plane and are usually used to hunt for military submarines and related things):
Updates: The US Coast Guard has announced that underwater noises have been detected during the search for the missing submersible that was exploring the wreck of the Titanic. These noises were picked up by a Canadian P-3 aircraft, prompting a relocation of the search efforts. Despite previous searches not yielding any results, the search is ongoing.
Various international ships, planes, and an underwater robot are involved in the search, and preparations are being made to bring salvage equipment to the area in case the submersible is found. The US military has deployed three C-17 transport planes to transport submersible and support equipment to aid in the search. The Canadian military has also contributed a patrol aircraft and two surface ships, including one specialized in dive medicine.
Commissar von Toussaint wrote: My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
That's something I wondered about. I would have figured they would have been in constant contact with the ship they launched from, automatically sending back realtime location data and whatnot.
From what I know about operating at these depths that is incredibly difficult. The sheer volume of water between the surface and the subs makes wireless communication almost impossible and wire trailing out the back is unfeasible. You could keep comms reliable with a powerful enough transmitter, but space is precious in deep sea subs and its not a viable thing to do.
The comparison to space is kinda apt, but in some ways it is actually more dangerous than space. Vacuum wont immediately kill you.
Who said anything about wireless? Many submersibles (esp. unmanned) are tethered, they have several miles of communications and/or power cable linking them to a mothership. For something touristy like this where the passengers are untrained and inexperienced civilians with lots of money and liability risk, etc. I would have expected there to be a similar communications tether for safety reasons. Now, that tether might not be strong enough to pull the submersible back up by (though it would be nice if it was), but it should at the very least be able to provide some info as to what happened and where the thing is. The fact that it seems to have been a completely untethered submersible for commercial tourism purposes is just mind-boggling to me, I would never under any circumstances have got into that thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/21 13:04:23
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Commissar von Toussaint wrote: My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
That's something I wondered about. I would have figured they would have been in constant contact with the ship they launched from, automatically sending back realtime location data and whatnot.
The owner has something of a record.
His public stance on ship safety is that the emphasis on safety requirements stifles innovation.
The bios of the people on the sub frankly read like they could be the founders of the creepy undersea dystopia in Bioshock.
Commissar von Toussaint wrote: My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
That's something I wondered about. I would have figured they would have been in constant contact with the ship they launched from, automatically sending back realtime location data and whatnot.
The owner has something of a record.
His public stance on ship safety is that the emphasis on safety requirements stifles innovation.
The bios of the people on the sub frankly read like they could be the founders of the creepy undersea dystopia in Bioshock.
There are also video statements where the owner basically said that he doesn't want a crew of experienced experts because they are not 'inspirational'...
chaos0xomega wrote: The fact that it seems to have been a completely untethered submersible for commercial tourism purposes is just mind-boggling to me, I would never under any circumstances have got into that thing.
Yikes, sounds like a gakshow of an enterprise. The thing was apparently controlled using a wireless playstation controller with no hardwired back up for redundancy!
Apparently the sub will run out of O2 tomorrow morning if it hasn't suffered a catastrophic failure. It will shift to recovery then. I hope the find the sub so we can learn what went wrong.
ChargerIIC wrote: If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
Commissar von Toussaint wrote: My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
That's something I wondered about. I would have figured they would have been in constant contact with the ship they launched from, automatically sending back realtime location data and whatnot.
The owner has something of a record.
His public stance on ship safety is that the emphasis on safety requirements stifles innovation.
The bios of the people on the sub frankly read like they could be the founders of the creepy undersea dystopia in Bioshock.
There are also video statements where the owner basically said that he doesn't want a crew of experienced experts because they are not 'inspirational'...
Bunch rich people cut corners and they are the ones to pay the price for once.
I'm not too bothered,
A week ago a migrant ship carring nearly 700 people sinks and its barely a blip on the new
But this gets hour to hour coverage
hotsauceman1 wrote: Bunch rich people cut corners and they are the ones to pay the price for once.
I'm not too bothered,
A week ago a migrant ship carring nearly 700 people sinks and its barely a blip on the new
But this gets hour to hour coverage
With you on this.
ChargerIIC wrote: If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Bunch rich people cut corners and they are the ones to pay the price for once.
I'm not too bothered,
A week ago a migrant ship carring nearly 700 people sinks and its barely a blip on the new
But this gets hour to hour coverage
With you on this.
I'd wager there are migrants who couldn't afford the smugglers prices who feel the same about those migrants who cut corners and got on a rickety boat for a dangerous voyage.
Also, media fatigue is a thing. We've been seeing migrant deaths for a long time, with an uptick in the past 11 years because of the Syrian Civil War. It doesn't move the needle for news organizations anymore. Sucks, but that's the business.
This submersible story though, is tailor made for sensational media. Rich People = Check. Historic Event(Titanic) = Check. A dramatic countdown(Oxygen) = Check. A bunch of specialized scientists willing to give their input, who'd otherwise never be on TV = Check.
Closest story to this in recent memory was the Tham Luang Cave rescue, which got a lot of press(even a movie), and involved no rich people, aside from those who inserted themselves (Elon Musk).
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
hotsauceman1 wrote: Bunch rich people cut corners and they are the ones to pay the price for once.
I'm not too bothered,
A week ago a migrant ship carring nearly 700 people sinks and its barely a blip on the new
But this gets hour to hour coverage
The affair seems to have crossed the line from incompetence to criminal negligence:
The director of marine operations at OceanGate, the company whose submersible went missing Sunday on an expedition to the Titanic in the North Atlantic, was fired after raising concerns about its first-of-a-kind carbon fiber hull and other systems before its maiden voyage, according to a filing in a 2018 lawsuit first reported by Insider and New Republic.
David Lochridge was terminated in January 2018 after presenting a scathing quality control report on the vessel to OceanGate’s senior management, including founder and CEO Stockton Rush, who is on board the missing vessel.
According to a court filing by Lochridge, the preamble to his report read: “Now is the time to properly address items that may pose a safety risk to personnel. Verbal communication of the key items I have addressed in my attached document have been dismissed on several occasions, so I feel now I must make this report so there is an official record in place.”
The report detailed “numerous issues that posed serious safety concerns,” according to the filing. These included Lochridge’s worry that “visible flaws” in the carbon fiber supplied to OceanGate raised the risk of small flaws expanding into larger tears during “pressure cycling.” These are the huge pressure changes that the submersible would experience as it made its way and from the deep ocean floor. He noted that a previously tested scale model of the hull had “prevalent flaws.”
The article later mentions that the dismissed engineer urged the firm to have the submersible checked and certified by a reputable company or agency, to no avail. Instead they relied on a 'innovative' system developed in-house that had never been tested under real conditions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/21 18:57:59
Easy E wrote: At least Stockton Rush put his money where his mouth was and went on the sub.
Too bad he took 4 other people with him.
Like many tragedies, it's just a series of mindbogglingly bad decisions that is hard to understand once they're presented all together and neatly connected.
Seems to be an air of assumption that this is a new thing. The sub had already made multiple successful trips down to the wreck, so while questions over the safety of the design are valid, it had nevertheless been proven.
Very detailed documentary made by the BBC on the whole thing when it was working can be found here..
(People will also note that even on the successful dive depicted there were technical issues..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/21 21:16:32
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
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Commissar von Toussaint wrote: My only thought is that it is strange that they did not have some sort of fail-safe beacon aboard. Not even a "black box," just a loud alarm clock in a pressure proof box that chimes every hour on the hour.
I saw a report earlier today that someone is banging on the hull every half hour, and the searchers are trying to find this.
That's what I was talking about. Navies are really, really good at finding loud artificial sounds in the wrong places.
If you do a dive that deep, play "Bohemian Rhapsody" or something by the Blue Man Group every 30 minutes to ensure contact.
Azreal13 wrote: Seems to be an air of assumption that this is a new thing. The sub had already made multiple successful trips down to the wreck, so while questions over the safety of the design are valid, it had nevertheless been proven.
Very detailed documentary made by the BBC on the whole thing when it was working can be found here..
I do feel a bit sorry for the people who payed a quarter-million dollars each for a Titanic experience... and have wound up getting the FULL Titanic experience.
Vulcan wrote: I do feel a bit sorry for the people who payed a quarter-million dollars each for a Titanic experience... and have wound up getting the FULL Titanic experience.
Titanic tours! Pay for the view, stay for the experience!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/22 00:28:08
5000pts 
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