Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

first of all, he plays Necrons I HATE thinking machines as the mind of man is holy

I play world eaters
how do I beat necrons? with world eaters, Angron died like a giant wuss to a ctan and then never came back (best use of 200 bucks ever )
he plays mean lists so I want a mean list
I guess I can put 200 bucks in dollar coins in a sock and do it that way, but I figured I would try on the tabletop before that

any advice I can get would be great.

thanks!

While I'm not a person who can give you great advice, I know that you won't be able to get any valid feedback without posting your list - and preferably that of your friend.

 morganfreeman wrote:
While I'm not a person who can give you great advice, I know that you won't be able to get any valid feedback without posting your list - and preferably that of your friend.

LOL; He did post his list - he said he plays WE & uses Angron.
As a WE he only has Angron & like 9 other units.

Joking aside, yes, show us the lists.

sorry, the intent here is to make a list. I have everything or can get anything.

he mixes it up all the time and honestly, it does not matter what he brings I get tabled pretty quickly



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The last list I played

Angron
lord of skulls

Kharn

2 squads of zerkers
10 man jackles

10 man termie squad
2 rhinos

From my admittedly limited knowledge of 10th:

Exalted eightbound are where the world eaters "power" lies. They're fast, they're touch, and they rip anything they touch apart. I believe that the current meta for WE (as much as there is one; I understand they're pretty bad atm) is a bunch of eight bound zooming up the board with Invictus, getting t1 and t2 charges from scout moves and such. Usually with Angron doing much the same, but just getting those charges because wings.

Like wise I don't think that kharn or WE termies are that good. But more important, I get the feeling that the Lord of Skulls is a big point sink that doesn't give much back. Looking at your list (such as it is) the only two units that look to pose a problem for enemies are angron and the lord of skulls. Which in and of itself is a pretty easy problem to solve, as only two of them means it's relatively easy to pour heavy weapons fire / strong CC units into them and wear them down, after which the rest of the list is just paper thin.

C'Tan shards are a tough matchup for World Eaters as you don't really have anything in your index that can solo it in one round of combat (you can only get so many units into engagement range). Void Dragon can regen faster than the other shards to make this even worse.

Probably the best chance of beating Necrons with World Eaters would be to ignore the C'Tan and focus on being as efficient at scoring and killing other Necron units as possible. The kind of list I'd take against Necrons (using as much as what you already listed as possible) would be something like this:

Scout units (turn 1 charges):
Lord Invocatus + 6 Eightbound
Juggerlord (favoured of Khorne) + 10 Berzerkers (use the Juggerlord's long base and high move stat to stretch out into charge range)
10 Terminators (use apoplectic frenzy to advance into charge range)

Reserves (2nd wave of charges):
Angron (stick him in reserve and rapid ingress him in ASAP to be a wrecking ball into Necron backline)
10 Bloodletters + Bloodmaster (drop onto an objective, or rapid ingress turn 3 to set up a charge to contest an objective)

Scoring units:
2 x Spawn (go for mid objectives)
2 x Jackhals (stay on back objectives)

Use favoured of Khorne to try and ensure you get the blessings you need on turn 1 - definitely advance and charge and possibly either +2" move or 6+ FNP. This way you should be able to contain the Necrons and keep them in combat - unless they are playing Hypercypt in which case go with the sock of coins as that detachment is one of the strongest things around atm.

Nerve holds and a few chair shots should help you, YW.

 morganfreeman wrote:
From my admittedly limited knowledge of 10th:

Exalted eightbound are where the world eaters "power" lies. They're fast, they're touch, and they rip anything they touch apart. I believe that the current meta for WE (as much as there is one; I understand they're pretty bad atm) is a bunch of eight bound zooming up the board with Invictus, getting t1 and t2 charges from scout moves and such. Usually with Angron doing much the same, but just getting those charges because wings.

Like wise I don't think that kharn or WE termies are that good. But more important, I get the feeling that the Lord of Skulls is a big point sink that doesn't give much back. Looking at your list (such as it is) the only two units that look to pose a problem for enemies are angron and the lord of skulls. Which in and of itself is a pretty easy problem to solve, as only two of them means it's relatively easy to pour heavy weapons fire / strong CC units into them and wear them down, after which the rest of the list is just paper thin.

Yeah, A lot of that looks somewhat accurate. I'd say the biggest issue is that Angron and the Lord of Skulls are something like half your eggs in one basket. And yes, World Eaters are probably designed poorly given how much of their stuff looks like its modeled on the Sisters failed template of Get bonuses you can't use on half your stuff, because half your stuff has to get killed to get the bonus backloading compared to the frontloading other factions get like the Aeldari Fate Dice where you start with all your stuff and all your bonus.

With that said one of the combos I'd be interested in trying out is a Daemon Prince or three around the Lord Of Skulls - they can ratchet his invuln up to a 4++, and split off in a charge, the downside is they don't get Lone Operative, or an attached squad so its still not on par with other factions when it comes to character defense. And the points cost pretty much precludes Angron if you want enough units to Play The Points.

Breton wrote:

And yes, World Eaters are probably designed poorly given how much of their stuff looks like its modeled on the Sisters failed template of Get bonuses you can't use on half your stuff, because half your stuff has to get killed to get the bonus backloading compared to the frontloading other factions get like the Aeldari Fate Dice where you start with all your stuff and all your bonus.

??
That's not at all how the Blessings of Khorne work.

ccs wrote:

Breton wrote:

And yes, World Eaters are probably designed poorly given how much of their stuff looks like its modeled on the Sisters failed template of Get bonuses you can't use on half your stuff, because half your stuff has to get killed to get the bonus backloading compared to the frontloading other factions get like the Aeldari Fate Dice where you start with all your stuff and all your bonus.

??
That's not at all how the Blessings of Khorne work.

I'm talking about the bespoke rules on the units - stuff like

Bloody Fury: Each time a model in this unit makes an
attack, add 1 to the Hit roll if this unit is below its Starting
Strength, and add 1 to the Wound roll as well if this unit is
Below Half-strength

- that theme shows up a few times on their units - there's one where it's inverted and that both works better, and is more Khorne Thematic. The more blood you spill, the more skulls you take, Khorne is Watching you.

Hello.

I am the friend.

I do love me some c'tan and have bringing two to most games, I like redundancy in my lists so don't like to run just one of anything if I can help it or I'm confident in it doing it's job. Just got my monoliths though so I'll be introducing / switching between those soon.

Like most necron players I mostly stick to immortals over warriors. I do tend to bring plasmancers for at least one squad for increased crit range.

I am usually playing hypercrypt because I feel dirty playing canoptek and my whole army getting re-rolls. Have dropped it down to awakened for some specific lists, but that's less common.

I usually bring some form of large anti-tank in either doomsday arks, heavy destroyers, or doomstalkers depending on the rest of my list.

I currently do not own enough wraiths to run those. One less thing to worry about for now.

borfie 813075 11643364 wrote:
Angron
lord of skulls

Kharn

2 squads of zerkers
10 man jackles

10 man termie squad
2 rhinos

Oh Jesus, this has this 8th ed GK terminator only feel. Generaly unless you run a master of executions you should not run zerkers, they don't do enough damage. Avoid termintors like the plague. They are slow and low damage comparing to 8bound, both the regular scouting and exalted version.
I think that in order to be able to run a single Lord of Skulls, a lot of skill and specific terrain is requiered. Run 2 or run non. Do not run Kharn. The jackles to sit on an objective are okey.
In general it feels like you had 2 lists (monster mash, zerker rush)and you skipped on the units that make the WE codex work (the eightbouned). So it would be good to focus on one specific build and get units for that. Probably a monster mash list would be the easiest to get as you already have Angron and a lord of skulls. And for something like zerker rush or the regular WE list you would need to buy multiple boxes of eightbound, and you are not getting those with 200$ (unless very lucky on ebay or they are recasts).

I think the $200 talk was that the OP didn't feel he got his money's worth out of Angron.

other people have said it, but i'll second this: replacing the lord of skulls with a few units of eightbound is going to take you a long way

in terms of tactics, i think it's important to think of points as something you can trade, and especially, something you can trade up. if my 80 point unit kills your 150 point unit, i've made a good trade. in this sense, cheaper units are often better, since they have higher value if you trade up, and it's less damaging if they die without trading. WE being a small army means you don't get a lot of choice in terms of what units to bring, so you don't have great tradepiece options, but eightbound (both types) will generally be what's killing your opponent's things (terminators should also do the job fine; they're just more expensive which makes them more difficult. i recommend breaking them up into two five man squads instead btw)
the lord of skulls, on the other hand, is very difficult to trade its points, since it's a very expensive model. your opponent might need several units to take it down, and it will definitely kill a lot of models in the process, but the chances that it makes its points back are pretty low
Angron, on the other hand, can have some great value. he's durable enough with a lot of killing potential, so he can deal with a lot of units before being taken down. even if he doesn't come back, he should wreck enough havoc for your opponent that your other models can pick up the scraps once he's finally down. if he manages to come back, that's even better

finally, regarding Angron, i'm going to point you towards one of the enhancements that WE have, the Favoured of Khorne. for 20 points, once per game, you get to reroll your blessing of khorne roll. even despite the nerf (used to be every turn), it's still a vital part of the army, and if you have the points for it, you should be taking it, since that's going to make it easier to get desirable blessings roles, and thus, potentially bring back Angron

This kind of reminds me of my childhood playing Warhammer Fantasy.

My brother's High Elf Tyrion vs 100 orks and goblins. Tyrion wins.


The solution for casual play is to just work with your opponent to play lists that are going to be more balanced.

Yes I'm sure GW would love for you to go out and buy more models so you can one up your opponent, but that's not a realistic option for a lot of people.

My advice is to get creative: Play a game without Angron OR the CTAN to start with and see what happens. Experiment with different types of scenarios and point values.

The goal is fun. Good luck

Can't beat a 2nd ed. Dreadnought in a sock!



...ohhh I misunderstood the question.

When you talk of Angron duelling the C'tan, my response is to try blasting it instead. I know it's intuitive to have the big models duel it out for superiority, but it's generally better to meet a model at its weakness and not its strength. Blast the C'tan with firepower if you can. It won't be able to threaten anything if you just knock it out at range. Then take your Angron and just murderfest him through units that suck in close combat, like Warriors, Immortals, minor characters, etc.

 Insectum7 wrote:
When you talk of Angron duelling the C'tan, my response is to try blasting it instead. I know it's intuitive to have the big models duel it out for superiority, but it's generally better to meet a model at its weakness and not its strength. Blast the C'tan with firepower if you can. It won't be able to threaten anything if you just knock it out at range. Then take your Angron and just murderfest him through units that suck in close combat, like Warriors, Immortals, minor characters, etc.

The C'Tan also have a somewhat backwards weakness. They halve all incoming damage, have a 4+/4++ - at T11, its a little wonky wiith them in a sweet spot. If I were going after C'tan I'd do it with Assault/Onslaught cannons - especially with a +1 to Wound effect if I can get one. With Chaos, who doesn't have that sort of stuff - I'd spam as much D1/D3 high volume stuff I can. Reapers, Predators, Maulterfields. Terminators with accursed weapons and such.