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How do!

So rather excitingly, I’ve just picked my Dark Angels’ first fight. Wee 1,500 point game a week on Saturday at my FLGS.

I’ll be going through the rulebook this weekend to start relearning, but I was wondering if, outside of how to move, shoot and fight if there’s perhaps anything easily overlooked I should be aware of?

In terms of army list I’ll be Pen and Paper, including noting down page refs for weapons and weapon abilities, as my opponent is also learning the game. So whilst I expect a lot of back and forth between books, that initial effort should still help minimise.

Reactions for sure. Some are pretty powerful but even the less useful ones can still be helpful if timed right.
Timing them is really important because you don't want to wait too long into a turn before using reactions and you'll also want to be careful about what your opponent can do.
Sure, you could dump 10 Autocannons into a Dreadnought but it can also then dump whatever guns it has into you in return. You might be angling to get a good assault but then your opponent moves the unit away just far enough to prevent that charge.
The good thing is there are only the Core reactions and one Legion-specific Advanced reaction to worry about (probably also ones for Mech or Solar Aux but I can't remember them off the top of my head).
Once again, these vary between bottom of the barrel and insanely powerful.

Well, it's fundamentally 40k 3rd-7th edition, but make no assumptions, it's rewritten from scratch, every section has little changes, nothing is resolved exactly as it was in any previous edition.

Off the top of my head, the things that tripped me up during games:

- area terrain still does not block LOS across it
- lone independent characters have no protection from being shot whatsoever
- massive WS table change (high WS becomes harder to hit really fast)
- wonky special characters, with some being "fair" (close to regular HQs) while others have outrageous power like hitting with AP2 at initiative for no perceptible cost increase

And if you don't have a cheat sheet I would at least pencil in the page number of every weapon and ability your dudes have onto your roster, referencing the books in real time is an absolute, complete disaster.

Some things that really stand out to me that haven't been mentioned:
- difficult terrain is a -2" modifier instead of picking the higher of 2D6, though dangerous terrain still has its own test
- charge distance is 2D6 with a modifier, up to a maximum of 12, and units can still move after a failed charge (surge move)

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Off the top of my head, the things that tripped me up during games:

- area terrain still does not block LOS across it
- lone independent characters have no protection from being shot whatsoever
- massive WS table change (high WS becomes harder to hit really fast)
- wonky special characters, with some being "fair" (close to regular HQs) while others have outrageous power like hitting with AP2 at initiative for no perceptible cost increase

We always house-ruled the area terrain thing. Forests etc should definitely block LOS. I don’t understand why GW still seems to struggle with dealing with terrain.


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How do!

So rather excitingly, I’ve just picked my Dark Angels’ first fight. Wee 1,500 point game a week on Saturday at my FLGS.

You have a complex set of army-specific rules, so spend some time coming to grips with those.

Nice one, Doc. 1500pts is a good place start.
What sort of list are you running?

The others have all made good points. I would like to add that when it comes to the Rules, unless you're of those people who has an excellent memory for details, I wouldn't try and remember every little thing all at the beginning. Definitely lock down the main aspects of each phase, (Which if you played any 3rd-7th Edition, should be reasonably familiar. Although as Blackfang notes, things have changed, so don't go in assuming it's all the same.) but don't stress yourself trying to absorb every bullet point and every cross-rule interaction.
The minutia of the game will come naturally the more you play. And honestly, I'm ~30 games in and I still forget gak or confuse things with other rules, so don't sweat it if you struggle at first.

A cheat sheet of your unit rules/weapons is also really handy. For regular pickup games they might get a bit impractical, but I use one for events where I have multiple games over 1 day where I use the same army. Laminate it and everything. And it's so handy to have everything relevant to me right there and not needing to flick through the books constantly.
A lot of people like using Battlescribe to craft lists and it is sort of handy because it gives you a units rules and wargear all packaged together, but I personally loathe battlescribes because of the layout system they use. I use Excel sheets for my army lists and a simple notepad or word document for cheat sheets.

List wise I think I’m gonna for a Bit Of Everything.

I’ve got lots of infantry, tanks and dreadnoughts painted, so they’re all going to feature. This is mostly so I can get some experience with as wide a variety of units as possible.

Only things I’d need to paint at this stage if I wanted to field them are Jetbikes. I’ve got t assembled with swappable weapons, and a reasonable window to get at least a base sized unit painted in time.

Oh, and I need to do a Praetor. Can probs get that done this weekend.


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Oh god where are my dice? No. Really. I’ve not touched them since I moved two years ago.

The game has too many rules and they are organised in such a scatterbrained way in the rulebooks that finding the reference you want is such a time sink :-(

Luckily someone on these forums (can't remember who) made this wonderful cheat sheet (I call it a sheet, its more a booklet).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8dfc9zwnwj6i4y/The_Omega_Codex_Horus_Heresy_Reference_Sheets_The_Flaymaster_FINAL.pdf?dl=0

Some of it is only relevant to specific armies so you don't need to print it all but having all the special rules and abilities combined in a condensed form and having all the groups of rules like vehicle and movement on a single page is invaluable.

I'd say that familiarize yourself with close combat, particularly wound pool distribution, casualty removal, and piling in. 2.0 is different from anything 40k's seen before, being a bit of a mash-up of 3rd, 7th, and even 8th. So it's extremely important to understand the nuance both to properly utilize your units in CC and to make sure your opponent isn't improperly pasting you.

Likewise, it'd probably be worth it to discuss it first as well. Reports seem to suggest a lot of people are confused over the various aspects of CC (particularly the ones I mentioned), so it may be worth taking 5-10 minutes to establish how you and your opponent will play it prior to actually starting the game.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How do!

So rather excitingly, I’ve just picked my Dark Angels’ first fight. Wee 1,500 point game a week on Saturday at my FLGS.

I’ll be going through the rulebook this weekend to start relearning, but I was wondering if, outside of how to move, shoot and fight if there’s perhaps anything easily overlooked I should be aware of?

In terms of army list I’ll be Pen and Paper, including noting down page refs for weapons and weapon abilities, as my opponent is also learning the game. So whilst I expect a lot of back and forth between books, that initial effort should still help minimise.

The writers of HHv2 seemed to want to make the game as opaque as possible, with USRs scattered throughout. There are also plenty of "gotcha" opportunities with the reactions, particularly some of the Chapter-specific ones. All that to say, I would go for a stripped-down version with two new players. Maybe skip the Chapter rules for the first game to get the basic mechanics down.

Solid disagree on not using Legion rules.

The whole fun of the Legion armies is the rules they get, playing generic army 1 vs generic army 2 with the same playstyle because you have no incentive to do anything else is a bad way to experience it.

 Gert wrote:
Solid disagree on not using Legion rules.

The whole fun of the Legion armies is the rules they get, playing generic army 1 vs generic army 2 with the same playstyle because you have no incentive to do anything else is a bad way to experience it.

100% agreed. The Legion rules for the 8th Legion is entirely what got me interested in HH in the first place. Playing without them? Might as well have stuck to the dumpster fire that current 40k is.

I just used a new Blood Angels army for the first time today, after using Alpha Legion since the start of HH2. Having new army rules and learning how to use them was half of the fun!

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Solid disagree on not using Legion rules.

The whole fun of the Legion armies is the rules they get, playing generic army 1 vs generic army 2 with the same playstyle because you have no incentive to do anything else is a bad way to experience it.

100% agreed. The Legion rules for the 8th Legion is entirely what got me interested in HH in the first place. Playing without them? Might as well have stuck to the dumpster fire that current 40k is.

While I agree with both of you that the Legion rules are part of what makes the game what it is. If it's your very first game, and you're only really wanting to wrap your head around how it functions, then setting aside the Legion rules and some of the other more advanced/finicky rules is a good way to start.
It's a game with no small amount of minutia, so paring it back for easy learning isn't a bad thing.

A generic, no-legion units/rules army list is definitely how I'd introduce someone to the game. Especially so if they weren't already familiar with other GW games.

 Gert wrote:
Solid disagree on not using Legion rules.

The whole fun of the Legion armies is the rules they get, playing generic army 1 vs generic army 2 with the same playstyle because you have no incentive to do anything else is a bad way to experience it.

It is their first game for both of them. I am not saying to never use Legion-specific rules. I am saying maybe don’t try to eat the elephant in one bite. Start with the basics for the first game and then build from there.

On the Legion rules, I’ll put that to my opponent, see how they feel.

There’s defo wisdom to leaving out and leaving in when it comes to early games.

It's not nearly as difficult as people are making out unless you've literally never played Warhammer before.

Its not AOS 1st ed levels of simple but for a veteran like yourself MDG it's not going to be hard.

You say Veteran, but I’m more a retiree 🤣🤣

Gonna rattle off a list today, based on “little of what I fancy” with an eye to giving meself a reasonable variety of units over any particular thoughts of synergy.

Definitely fielding a Contemptor though. But just the one, Mrs Wembley. And maybe three 10 strong squads of Legion Tactical Squad. Enough to give me a decent level of firepower and flexibility on grabbing objectives. Probably a 10 man Assault Squad too for speed and face smashing lols. Maybe a 5 man Support Squad with my beloved Volkite.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You say Veteran, but I’m more a retiree 🤣🤣

Gonna rattle off a list today, based on “little of what I fancy” with an eye to giving meself a reasonable variety of units over any particular thoughts of synergy.

Definitely fielding a Contemptor though. But just the one, Mrs Wembley. And maybe three 10 strong squads of Legion Tactical Squad. Enough to give me a decent level of firepower and flexibility on grabbing objectives. Probably a 10 man Assault Squad too for speed and face smashing lols. Maybe a 5 man Support Squad with my beloved Volkite.

I agree with Gert, Dok. You'll be fine. Also, Volkite: mmmmmmmmm.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Solid disagree on not using Legion rules.

The whole fun of the Legion armies is the rules they get, playing generic army 1 vs generic army 2 with the same playstyle because you have no incentive to do anything else is a bad way to experience it.

It is their first game for both of them. I am not saying to never use Legion-specific rules. I am saying maybe don’t try to eat the elephant in one bite. Start with the basics for the first game and then build from there.

I’m curious, what exactly do you think Legion rules do?

Most of the legion rules are incredibly simple. Stuff like +1 to movement, -1 to enemy strength, +1 to wound when outnumbering, +1 attack on the charge, so on and so forth. Even the more convoluted ones (dark angels, SW, Ultramarines) are pre straight forward than… just about every other part of the game.

So not to dogpile, but also toss me on the ‘hard disagree’ camp in this regard.

Now if you want to make the game more simple for the first time around? No reactions. Reactions are the biggest twist between 30k 2.0 and most other iterations of 40k. They’re also where a lot of the complication shows up, stuff like finding your unit suddenly annihilated by return fire, or your assault unit suddenly charged on your turn because it got too close to some space wolves / shot a worldeater with a pistol.

 morganfreeman wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Solid disagree on not using Legion rules.

The whole fun of the Legion armies is the rules they get, playing generic army 1 vs generic army 2 with the same playstyle because you have no incentive to do anything else is a bad way to experience it.

It is their first game for both of them. I am not saying to never use Legion-specific rules. I am saying maybe don’t try to eat the elephant in one bite. Start with the basics for the first game and then build from there.

I’m curious, what exactly do you think Legion rules do?

Most of the legion rules are incredibly simple. Stuff like +1 to movement, -1 to enemy strength, +1 to wound when outnumbering, +1 attack on the charge, so on and so forth. Even the more convoluted ones (dark angels, SW, Ultramarines) are pre straight forward than… just about every other part of the game.

So not to dogpile, but also toss me on the ‘hard disagree’ camp in this regard.

Now if you want to make the game more simple for the first time around? No reactions. Reactions are the biggest twist between 30k 2.0 and most other iterations of 40k. They’re also where a lot of the complication shows up, stuff like finding your unit suddenly annihilated by return fire, or your assault unit suddenly charged on your turn because it got too close to some space wolves / shot a worldeater with a pistol.

To put your heart at ease, I do play Horus Heresy 2 (pickup, leagues and tourneys). The Legions add another layer of rules, units and to your point about Reactions they bring in Legion-specific Reactions that can be very unbalanced. In the OP's case, as a Dark Angel he then likely has a number of Wings with their rules to worry about in his first game, not to mention his opponent's.

I don't particularly like Reactions, and HH 2 has some terrible ones, but they are a fundamental mechanic of the game. So if I was looking to strip things down for a first game (for both players) I would go with no Factions (and no Faction-specific units), stick with the contents of the launch box for the first game and have Reactions plus the applicable USRs. Then add in the Legion stuff for game 2.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How do!

So rather excitingly, I’ve just picked my Dark Angels’ first fight. Wee 1,500 point game a week on Saturday at my FLGS.

I’ll be going through the rulebook this weekend to start relearning, but I was wondering if, outside of how to move, shoot and fight if there’s perhaps anything easily overlooked I should be aware of?

Yes. Scoring units.
You'll want to read the missions section & take note of what units count as scoring units. In particular make sure you take a few units that have the "Line" Kw.
We played the Shatterpoint mission yesterday & it turned out that my partner (completely new to 30k) had built his force with no "Line" units. This made scoring harder....

I’ve included a brace of Legion Tactical Squads in 1,500. With Chainbayonets to turn them into a marginally tougher prospect to winkle off an objective.

I hope for your sake Mad doc, that your opponent won't have brought a single scorpius in regards to your 2 planned tac squads that is.

Eh, I’ll be OK. Probably. He gets one shot, and has the Jetbikes to deal with!

Maybe, I dunno. Not like I really know what I’m doing 🤣🤣

I hope you can take some photos of the battle. I think we'd all like to see your guys in action on the tabletop.

My iPad is always with me, and I do intend to document my snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.