Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Following the reveal and impending release of the 40k Fulgrim model, my personal opinion is that the 30k model looks better in every way (particularly the heads options), and would have worked well in the 40k setting.
I understand that warp corruption can help explain why 40k fulgrim looks like a vampire bat, but i feel it's more about finding excuses using "lore" as a scapegoat.

Aside from this personal opinion i do not understand why the 40k and Specialist Design studio are set up against one another, releasing pieces that could have been used in both settings.
It seems to me to be a waste of ressources, and having the same units available for both system (when possible) would not only cut cost for the company, but ensure more sales opportunity.

It is not just about Fulgrim (or, in the grand scheme of things, Traitor Legions) but also :

- Solar Auxilia plastified tanks (Old school Leman Russ, Malcador, Dracosan...) which used (as datasheets and models) to be used by Krieg's during the Imperial Armour era. I expect the Krieg to be forced to use modern 40k AM models instead of those classic designs.

- Adeptus Custodes for which most of the heavy units belongs to the Horus Heresy as (for now) resin models. Given the way things are, I expect in the future to see completely new and different designs for the 40k version of the faction, while the 30k version will see their resin kits plastified.

- Adeptus Mechanicus, which in the 40k setting seem to be stuck in an endless loop of underwhelming Skitarii releases, while the 30k Mechanicum gets the better and cooler Robots models.

What do you think ?

you can buy the FW model and use that in 40k if you want. nobody is stopping you

To add to what Student has said- if you use Legends as GW intended, you can use most FW stuff.

If, on the other hand, you insist that every game is tournament practice and that Legends can't be used, you'll find your options limited, but it will be your choice and not GW decree that makes it so.

They did used to do this, for decades. They clearly had a problem with delineation of sales for products however and eroding the visual distinction of games. The sheer proliferation of leviathan and contemptor dreads in 40k I think were the catalyst.

GW can't tell which army or even game system they're bought for if anyone and their dog can field them. The harsh but simple answer is to stone wall ranges apart from each other so it becomes very clear the intent behind each sale, so they can better monitor where to invest.

GW don't want you to use your 40K Custodes Land Raider in your 30K army. They want you to BUY IT AGAIN.

Siegfriedfr wrote:
Following the reveal and impending release of the 40k Fulgrim model, my personal opinion is that the 30k model looks better in every way (particularly the heads options), and would have worked well in the 40k setting.
I understand that warp corruption can help explain why 40k fulgrim looks like a vampire bat, but i feel it's more about finding excuses using "lore" as a scapegoat.

Aside from this personal opinion i do not understand why the 40k and Specialist Design studio are set up against one another, releasing pieces that could have been used in both settings.
It seems to me to be a waste of ressources, and having the same units available for both system (when possible) would not only cut cost for the company, but ensure more sales opportunity.

It is not just about Fulgrim (or, in the grand scheme of things, Traitor Legions) but also :

- Solar Auxilia plastified tanks (Old school Leman Russ, Malcador, Dracosan...) which used (as datasheets and models) to be used by Krieg's during the Imperial Armour era. I expect the Krieg to be forced to use modern 40k AM models instead of those classic designs.

- Adeptus Custodes for which most of the heavy units belongs to the Horus Heresy as (for now) resin models. Given the way things are, I expect in the future to see completely new and different designs for the 40k version of the faction, while the 30k version will see their resin kits plastified.

- Adeptus Mechanicus, which in the 40k setting seem to be stuck in an endless loop of underwhelming Skitarii releases, while the 30k Mechanicum gets the better and cooler Robots models.

What do you think ?

I think they intentionally "block" 30K and 40K model crossover. Guilliman traded the Gladius for the Emperor's Sword. Now you could probably model a slip on flamey bit on the Gladius but it won't look right. Magnus swapped blades. Angron swapped Axes - though the fluff all but required that one - The Lion did not take back his ridiculously small helmet because Azrael was wearing it and GW didn't want to prohibit Az+Lion but he also lost both blades and everything else picking up a new blade, sheild (of the Emperor) and a pistol-ish. Morty actually kept all his (important) wargear, but - like Angron - gained wings. Again you could create some sort of removable Wings addon if you wanted - and it would probably look better than what we got. I think he looks better in his 30K as he gets "lost" in his wings. I suspect because it creates even more sales opportunities - you now have to buy the same guy twice for both games.

Splitting HH models from 40K was a pretty stupid move, especially when at the same time HH got turned into plastic making it more available for most players. For CSM players HH models/ tanks are a pretty integral part of the armie's identity.
That being said, having two models of a character(actually 3 with Fulgrim) to show him literally 10K years apart is not that strange to me, but I'm coming from a lotr view where we got 9 Frodos .
The actual problem in this case is that the 40K version is not actually that different or more daemonic and just looks worse than the 30K version while the fluff is open enough to allow the more human 30K Fulgrim in 40K as well.

The Imperial Knights seem to be the only army to have avoided the HH/40k model divide (Yes, I know you can't use Dominus Knights in 30k for no particular reason).

What they did do was arbitrarily enforce us to buy more Armigers I. 30k to play an all Knight force. (You have to field 2 Armigers to field a larger Knight).

So even if they don't split model lines between the systems, it seems they still want the armies to look different.

Siegfriedfr wrote:
Aside from this personal opinion i do not understand why the 40k and Specialist Design studio are set up against one another, releasing pieces that could have been used in both settings.
It seems to me to be a waste of ressources, and having the same units available for both system (when possible) would not only cut cost for the company, but ensure more sales opportunity.

It is not just about Fulgrim (or, in the grand scheme of things, Traitor Legions) but also :

- Solar Auxilia plastified tanks (Old school Leman Russ, Malcador, Dracosan...) which used (as datasheets and models) to be used by Krieg's during the Imperial Armour era. I expect the Krieg to be forced to use modern 40k AM models instead of those classic designs.

- Adeptus Custodes for which most of the heavy units belongs to the Horus Heresy as (for now) resin models. Given the way things are, I expect in the future to see completely new and different designs for the 40k version of the faction, while the 30k version will see their resin kits plastified.

- Adeptus Mechanicus, which in the 40k setting seem to be stuck in an endless loop of underwhelming Skitarii releases, while the 30k Mechanicum gets the better and cooler Robots models.

What do you think ?

It promotes further buying. If 40k and HH are entirely separate with almost little to no crossover, you have to buy for both systems if you want to play both systems, unless you're smart about it.

Daemons, Custodes, Knights, Milita, Mechanicum, and even Legiones Astartes all have a lot of crossover with 40k armies which means you can have a core set of units with only minor swaps depending on the system you play.
For example, at my peak army numbers, I had Iron Warriors CSM, Daemons, Chaos Knights, and a heft Renegades & Heretics army for 40k. When I moved to HH, a lot of the stuff from my Iron Warriors force could be ported over because it wasn't overtly Chaosy. My Renegades & Heretics army became a Cults & Militia army, my Daemons were just Daemons and the Knight got drafted sometimes.

A lot of our 40k players ended up converting their 40k models with spare bitz and gubbins traded between the players in our group to turn their 40k forces into HH armies instead while still being usable in 40k.

40k is supposed to be played out of the box, it's the mass market option where the idea is to get people in and sell them a game they can pick up and play with very obvious rules from what you get in the box.
Whether that's good or bad is personal opinion.

I think its dumb af. I buy almost exclusively HH stuff over 40K stuff just because it looks better / less cartoony. This means its a constant "counts as" tomfoolery when I play 40K, although I do try to make builds as 30k/40k interchangeable as possible.

 tauist wrote:
I think its dumb af. I buy almost exclusively HH stuff over 40K stuff just because it looks better / less cartoony. This means its a constant "counts as" tomfoolery when I play 40K, although I do try to make builds as 30k/40k interchangeable as possible.

Good for you. All this "can't" interchange them is baffling to me, says who?

Mostly because they appeal to different customers.

Why where Harry Potter books sold with "adult" and "children" covers. Why is General Motors selling both Buicks and Cadillacs, when they could just pool those resources and make a single car line?

If the FW stuff appeals to you more, it's not because it's "better", but because you as a customer are probably in the target group segment catered to by the more muted, desaturated "less cartoony" style FW is going for precisely to appeal to people less convinced by a different marketing style.

Forgoing one for the other (no matter which one you cut) just means narrowing the customer base unnecessarily for no reason, while you could just continue to cater to a wider range of aesthetic preferences.

The main reason for cutting rules for stuff is because it was causing balance issues, the citadel studio and forgeworld studio had different approaches to balance and design, etc which often conflicted with one another, so they cut rules. Theres inducations that the respective studios are picking up designing content tho, the seraptek for example.

Main design studio had the responsibility for rules for models for their games since, what, at least 9th edition? Might even have been during 8th, though I seem to recall the FW guys had to pull their Index books together sharpish having not been told of the reset the new edition was going to cause in 8th...

Cutting stuff due to "balance issues" means the Studio didn't do a good enough job first time around, so why should gamers who have bought those models suffer?

Easier to cut it than dedicate more time when the schedule is already full.

The grinding wheels of business and all that.