Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Wondering if people generally show their lists before games anymore. Something happened that made me wonder.

While shopping at the FLGS, overheard a conversation at the start of a game. Players were discussing their armies, the Tau army was significantly larger than the Ultramarines.

"That 2,000 points?" asked one player. "Yup" was the response. "Let's roll to see who goes first." And thus the game proceeded..

Back in the day, automatically I would have asked for the list and a Codex to verify points. Most of the time, would not have needed to ask.

Good question.

I don’t have hard copies of lists any more. It’s all on my phone. I could show it if asked.

I play in a casual FLGS, so we generally just trust and roll with it. I’ve also been playing more Combat Patrol and Spearhead with fixed lists, so have statistically questionable number of data points on the issue.

I’m also old school enough to have old habits. I’ll go unit by unit explaining my army on request.

A lot of people use the app now to game with - so by default if there's 2K points on the list in the app its 2K points accurate to the current edition of the rules ( not even needing to check the Errata/updates cause the points from the codex have changed since release).


Also if those two players trusted each other chances are it was just surprise. It's always easy to think that an army you don't own and don't play against its bigger/smaller than you expect for a points value.

Heck if you were used to playing against Nidzilla lists and you played custodes you'd be shocked at how many models a gaunt heavy Tyranid list VS an infantry heavy Guard list would have on the table for the same points value.

 techsoldaten wrote:


"That 2,000 points?" asked one player. "Yup" was the response. "Let's roll to see who goes first." And thus the game proceeded..

Did you see me in my game last week?

In all seriousness, as a Kroot player, I get this all the time.

That being said, while I always have a hard copy of my list with me to show people if they ask, no one ever does. I was never in the habit of asking myself. If it's a tournament, their list is registered and checked, if it's not, then if they are they kind of person that would intentionally mess with there list, I'm sure I'd see other things amiss in the game itself.

So, I did once make a mistake where I was used to fielding a certain list, switched it up a bit for a game, and ended up deploying a unit I'd actually cut... Owned up and sorted it out, and I think it was only a unit of 10 chaos cultists so not game-breaking. Was also a casual game against my good friend at home (I don't play anything else!), so nothing riding on the game or anything - but was a little embarrassing.

Just saying, I can see how you might end up accidentally fielding more than you're meant to!

I remember writing lists/points down on Loose-leaf back in 5e!!!

Nowadays the honor system seems to be the status quo

I try to walk my opponents through what I'm taking, usually.

●I've never asked to see someone's list.
●I don't want/need it sent to me.
●within the group of 50 or so people i regularly play with we don't bother exchanging lists.

●On occasion people i don't play with often will actually give me a hard copy at the beginning of a game. I accept it, casually glance at it, & promptly place it face down on the table - it turns into the score pad.
These are also the only people who ever ask me for a copy of mine.
I hand them my legal pad of hand written chicken scratch & #s
Ex:
2000
100 -ratlingsx10 (red)
-------
1900
100 - bullgyns3(blue), ++ saves
Etc etc etc
I only note non-obvious gear/enhancements/detachment choices as everything i play is WYSYWYG.
I don't make lists in apps.

I used to write out detailed lists for 40k. I stopped a long time ago.
I also don't play in tournaments.

It still feels normal to me to write your list down on paper and to see the list before hand, I dunno, its just part of the social nicety.

I always write down an extra copy of my Army list.

Because I will lose the first one somewhere between my home and the store.

Every single time.

Lately, most of my games have been arranged over discord. My opponents and I will usually send out at least a rough draft of our lists prior to the game so that the other person can try to "tailor" not for advantage but to have a decent matchup.

So it might go something like...
Me: Here's roughly what I plan to bring.
Them: Cool. Here's what I'm feeling. As you can see, it's a vehicle-heavy skew list.
Me: Oof. Got it. In that case, I think I'll swap out this squad for something that can help against all that armor.
Them: Sounds good. I think I'm going to swap this character for a lieutenant so I can afford an enhancement.

So swapping lists pregame is fairly common, but mainly in the list-building stage; not because we're worried the other guy is cheating or fielding too many points or whatever.

Pretty much every game of 10th I’ve played, we’ve both run through what’s in our armies, roughly what the units do, what enhancements our characters have as well as the detachment rules/stratagems if either player’s not played it before.

Even when I was at the LGT the other month it seemed to be a pretty firm expectation before each game.

Avoids the feels-bad moments.

On that note, I usually at least offer my opponents a rundown of my list pre-game. Especially if I'm playing an army with potential gotchas. But generally people also don't want a full detailed explanation of every single thing. Either they don't know the army well enough to care/process what I tell them, or they just don't want the info dump.

So mainly I prioritize things like, "Hey, as a heads up, this guy lets me put a unit back into reserves at the end of your turn, and if you get too close to these units here, I'll get a reaction move."

 Wyldhunt wrote:
On that note, I usually at least offer my opponents a rundown of my list pre-game. Especially if I'm playing an army with potential gotchas. But generally people also don't want a full detailed explanation of every single thing. Either they don't know the army well enough to care/process what I tell them, or they just don't want the info dump.

So mainly I prioritize things like, "Hey, as a heads up, this guy lets me put a unit back into reserves at the end of your turn, and if you get too close to these units here, I'll get a reaction move."

I also prefer the short notes. “This unit is tough with a good invuln, eats tanks in melee” I don’t need all the numbers.

But also be honest. A bad example that sticks with me is my first game of 8th. Vs. necrons. Opponent was part of a playtest group (or had early leaks for a while) so already had a bunch of games under his belt. I just had the open stuff from WarCom. I ask if he had anything that DS’s so I need to worry about screens. He replys no. First turn he uses the deceiver to redeply a monolith right in my face which disgorges necrons. He technically answered my question correctly (the best kind of correct) but took advantage of my lack of knowledge to basically gotcha the whole game.

Don’t be that guy.

I usually lay my list out as units before we play and announce what I have, but I dont usually have a sheet of paper or anything to hand over.

I like uniformity and also tend not to buy low-impact upgrades that I dont need for units, so most upgrades are represented on the models [IE: Meltaguns]. A few that are intangible, like Veteran Superior or Grenadiers, are on every unit that can take it.

For the characters that have a lot of small cheap upgrades that add up that I do take, like my Canoness and Inquisitor Lord, I try to keep it consistent, so I always know she's the same price and has the same abilities, and also have an excel sheet with the cost add up.

I've only played three games this edition- each time I've emailed my list of units and sent links to forum posts with detailed histories and such- the Splintered Enigma thread in the Batrep section of Dakka and the Crusade Club over on B&C. While I don't list the equipment in the emails for brevity, the forum posts have a ton of information including equipment.

I'm Crusading on the sly, which is to say that I'm running Agendas that don't affect the game, tracking XP, RP and territory gains, but I'm not applying any Crusade buffs or penalties during games.

I go over the list before the game. I use the app and have a tablet and it makes the process quick. Opponent even can see which phase the stratagems activate with the app.

We go over all the units but don't actually do the math on the points. More about what weapons they have.

 Orkeosaurus wrote:
We go over all the units but don't actually do the math on the points. More about what weapons they have.

This.

I go over my units and what Enhancements they have, but I don't say "This unit is 110 points," and I trust my opponent to have done their math right too.

I like pointing out which models have Enhancements.

It's difficult sometimes to figure out during a game which of the nine nearly identical Cadian guardsmen with peaked caps has an Enhancement.

Always give the list. As far as explaining what the army does I do it too, but I don't think it is an efficient thing to do. Especialy for armies with reactionary stuff and combos, you run in to two types of opponent. Group A that played against that army or build, already know what it does and the "talk" just steals time. And then there is Group B, to whom you can explain stuff before the game, during the game, and they still end up moving in a place where you slings shot your units out of their range or they deploy their army without thinking of your RI ability. etc. The game right now is on a level of complicaiton, that when two people play and one does not have proper training/coaching, they are probably going to have a very bad time (including losing the game turn 1-2) playing vs someone that knows what they are doing.

Karol wrote:
The game right now is on a level of complicaiton, that when two people play and one does not have proper training/coaching, they are probably going to have a very bad time (including losing the game turn 1-2) playing vs someone that knows what they are doing.

This applies to all games.
I guarantee you that if you play a miniature wargame (40k or otherwise) & you don't understand what you're doing, you'll likely lose.
Same thing will happen if we switch to boardgames. Even with something as simple as Settlers of Catan. Until you figure out what you're doing....
Card games? Either CCGs (like Magic) or classic stuff (Poker etc) - same story.