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Well there has been a lot of complaining about ATSKNF and one thing I haven't noticed anyone throwing out was the idea of just getting rid of the part where they don't count as moving the turn after they run. Do you think that would maybe even stuff out a bit? No running away and then turning and firing off your lascannon?

My beef is not so much with the "doesn't count as moving", though that is annoying.

My beef is that ATSKNF turns out to be *better* than Fearless! And CSM pay big points (5-10 per model) for Fearless, whereas the already underpriced Space Morons get ATSKNF for free.


Here is why ATSKNF is better than Fearless:

Fearless unit loses combat - takes wounds as per No Retreat (automatically).

ATSKNF unit loses combat. Rolls a die + initiative to fall back:
A) Loses roll: takes wounds as per No Retreat.
B) Wins roll: gets to fall back 2d6" and autorally. If this happens in the enemy's assault phase, the Space Morons will likely be able to shoot the bejesus out of the unit that it lost combat to, and then charge it and get extra attacks!

Compare ATSKNF result B) with the Fearless unit. Hmm...which one is better? Now which one costs 5-10 points per model?

The rule should be renamed "And They Shall Know No Fairness"

Actually, they only auto-rally if they roll 7+ on 2d6... and that's assuming there weren't any models "left behind" and closer to the enemy. Otherwise, they run again... and again and again, if they don't get away. So, a savvy player can still run SM off the board; they just need an "escort".  Also, an SM unit broken at the end of the game (broke from combat/shooting and within 6" of the enemy) counts as destroyed for VPs, whereas you have to kill each and every one of a Fearless unit to get full points.

CSM with Fearless, on the other hand, are immune to leaving the board AND pinning, something else ASTKNF doesn't provide. Funny... they don't know fear, but they hit the dirt from a sniper round? Sounds like fear to me... Maybe it should be called "And They Shall Not Know When To Quit" or something.

Actually, they only auto-rally if they roll 7+ on 2d6... and that's assuming there weren't any models "left behind" and closer to the enemy. Otherwise, they run again... and again and again, if they don't get away. So, a savvy player can still run SM off the board; they just need an "escort". Also, an SM unit broken at the end of the game (broke from combat/shooting and within 6" of the enemy) counts as destroyed for VPs, whereas you have to kill each and every one of a Fearless unit to get full points.

I thought the SM rule stated that they ALWAYS regroup, regardless of proximity to any enemy....
And what is the logic on a 7+ auto-rally; ummm in English auto means regardless, and there is no need for dice throwin'
No offense, but I hink you are incorrect. But I have been wrong before as well lol.

Marines still have to be outside of 6" from enemy units to regroup, so they have to get away from the unit that beat them in assault.

I agree with the original comment on not allowing them to count as not moving, that and upping their price by 1pt.

Marines still have to be outside of 6" from enemy units to regroup, so they have to get away from the unit that beat them in assault.

Thank you for correcting me, and sorry to lord s, you were right with the regouping.

Posted By lord_sutekh on 07/01/2006 3:38 AM

Actually, they only auto-rally if they roll 7+ on 2d6... and that's assuming there weren't any models "left behind" and closer to the enemy. Otherwise, they run again... and again and again, if they don't get away. So, a savvy player can still run SM off the board; they just need an "escort".  Also, an SM unit broken at the end of the game (broke from combat/shooting and within 6" of the enemy) counts as destroyed for VPs, whereas you have to kill each and every one of a Fearless unit to get full points.

CSM with Fearless, on the other hand, are immune to leaving the board AND pinning, something else ASTKNF doesn't provide. Funny... they don't know fear, but they hit the dirt from a sniper round? Sounds like fear to me... Maybe it should be called "And They Shall Not Know When To Quit" or something.

I didn't get your 7+ roll the first time either since Space Marines also auto regroup if they fall back from a shooting check, in my experience falling back from short range weaponry to continue to fire their lascannon out of range as a last man standing.