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Sorry if this has been hashed out before.

Ok, so there is a DE Combat drug effect that allows the user to always strike first regardless of cover or weapons.

Now I beleive that there is something called a doom siren (correct me if I am wrong about name or what it does) that is available to Chaos armies that has the same effect and I am sure that some other armies have some peice of wargear that do the same thing.

So what happens?

My guess would be that you strike simultaniously, but seeing as I don't have the chaos codex I don't know.

Oddly (or perhaps not) only troops with identical Initiatives strike at the same time, for
2 (or more) "strike first" you're supposed to dice off each round.

Do you have a PG# or FAQ for that? Not doubting you just need to be able to present this if it happens.

I believe in both the DE codex (for combat drugs), and Eldar codex (for the banshee mask), they both state you strike simultaniously. Not sure about the doom siren since I haven't seen the 3rd printing of the chaos dex in a while.

I have the old codex and it doesnt give a note and isn't in the FAQ either.

The third printing C:CSM says to dice off.

Cheers, I would NEVER have found that.

And page 34 of the Eldar Codex states they go simo.....

DAMMIT!!! Here we go.

Ok, so how the heck do you deal with something like this? Which codex is newer?

[HYPOTHETICAL] Could you make the argument that since in the DE codex it notes simply "always strikes first" that mean that goes first?

What do the other codex entries say exactly?

I believe there is a description in one of the dex's or BgB that says you dice off to see which piece of wargear takes priority.

You do that in every turn.

Any pg. ref in BGB?

Posted By DaIronGob on 07/05/2006 1:56 PM
I believe there is a description in one of the dex's or BgB that says you dice off to see which piece of wargear takes priority.

You do that in every turn.

Are you sure you're not thinking Fantasy? I don't see any rule like that for 40k.

Under "Doom Siren" on page 56 of the 3rd printing CSM codex it says to dice off.
Now if a Doom Siren wasn't involved (2x Banshee masks) I guess they'd go simultaneously.
If combat drugs were used I guess you'd dice off (haven't got the DE codex so..)

Does it specifically say "When doom siren and another always strikes first weapon are used in the same combat dice off each round?" (not exact phrasing but exact steps)

I have the first printing of the Chaos dex. I have seen the banshee strikes at the same time concusion, which is think is a better general standard kinda like always strikes last always goes at the same time.

@Hexx, it just says "always strikes first" it doesn't give anything else which is where the post came from.

This is how we figured it:

In 4th, everything was changed to initiative.

3rd edition translation of: Always strikes first = Strikes at IN 10

Anything with IN 10 strikes simo.

Hey Gleep, what new codices have come out in 4th ed with a weapon/wargear that gives 'always strikes first' that was changed to strikes at I10? Not doubting, I just don't know of anything.

IMO that is probably the best way to PLAY it, even if the rules don't say so.

Frags for one. Being in Cover as well. I am not sure of anything in the SM codex that dictates striking first, I'll have to see.

I don't have the Tau or Nid dex, so can't say for sure on those.