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and I repeat you have no idea how much jobs are very much needed.
There are an abundance of roads, bridges, damns, and other critical infrastructure that is in desperate need of repairs. All of which are a much higher priority than a wall, and all of which are routinely ignored.
Absolutely, if this was about a national works program (something I would actually support in this instance), than our crumbling infrastructure is ripe for repair. Not only that, but we could invest in more than just the usual infrastructure, but cable and fiber to push tech-based business, and other things like that.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
and I repeat you have no idea how much jobs are very much needed.
There are an abundance of roads, bridges, damns, and other critical infrastructure that is in desperate need of repairs. All of which are a much higher priority than a wall, and all of which are routinely ignored.
Absolutely, if this was about a national works program (something I would actually support in this instance), than our crumbling infrastructure is ripe for repair. Not only that, but we could invest in more than just the usual infrastructure, but cable and fiber to push tech-based business, and other things like that.
Exactly, I've been thinking for some time now that the Works Progress Administration is past due for a comeback. But, is that too much of a Socialist idea for people to handle these days?
Easy E wrote: The only way to stop illegal immigration is to make our own country such a Gak-hole that no one wants to come here anyway. Anything short of that is a waste of time.
Do any of us really want to go that far?
instead, we need to focus on how we are going to use these incoming resources to build our country and make it stronger.
Oh we are already going down that path, with "Actual" unemployment on the rise and more and more businesses shuttering their doors, its just a matter of time till this country implodes.
But on the other hand Trump might be onto something, building a wall would put people to work give jobs and so forth.
I try and be an optimist, but nothing good ever happens!
I'm being optimistic too the wall would bring much needed jobs and so forth.
The wall's not going to be built.
if presented as much needed jobs, you would be surprised what can get done.
American economy floats on illegal labour. I very much doubt the wall will be built.
No. It does not.
Perhaps a better statement would be that our economy floats on cheap labor?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 02:58:47
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
and I repeat you have no idea how much jobs are very much needed.
There are an abundance of roads, bridges, damns, and other critical infrastructure that is in desperate need of repairs. All of which are a much higher priority than a wall, and all of which are routinely ignored.
Absolutely, if this was about a national works program (something I would actually support in this instance), than our crumbling infrastructure is ripe for repair. Not only that, but we could invest in more than just the usual infrastructure, but cable and fiber to push tech-based business, and other things like that.
Exactly, I've been thinking for some time now that the Works Progress Administration is past due for a comeback. But, is that too much of a Socialist idea for people to handle these days?
Easy E wrote: The only way to stop illegal immigration is to make our own country such a Gak-hole that no one wants to come here anyway. Anything short of that is a waste of time.
Do any of us really want to go that far?
instead, we need to focus on how we are going to use these incoming resources to build our country and make it stronger.
Oh we are already going down that path, with "Actual" unemployment on the rise and more and more businesses shuttering their doors, its just a matter of time till this country implodes.
But on the other hand Trump might be onto something, building a wall would put people to work give jobs and so forth.
I try and be an optimist, but nothing good ever happens!
I'm being optimistic too the wall would bring much needed jobs and so forth.
The wall's not going to be built.
if presented as much needed jobs, you would be surprised what can get done.
American economy floats on illegal labour. I very much doubt the wall will be built.
No. It does not.
Perhaps a better statement would be that our economy floats on cheap labor?
Problem is none of those programs would be allowed to exist since the Unions would have no say in them and the Unions have to have a say in everything since they are the ones who pushed the minimum wage raise.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Why is it that every time I watch the news, the headline, Donald Trump Riot, always appears?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
and I repeat you have no idea how much jobs are very much needed.
There are an abundance of roads, bridges, damns, and other critical infrastructure that is in desperate need of repairs. All of which are a much higher priority than a wall, and all of which are routinely ignored.
Absolutely, if this was about a national works program (something I would actually support in this instance), than our crumbling infrastructure is ripe for repair. Not only that, but we could invest in more than just the usual infrastructure, but cable and fiber to push tech-based business, and other things like that.
Infrastructure projects could provide an economic boost but they're not going to do much for the job market. The majority of unemployed people aren't construction workers and skilled heavy equipment operators. It's not all those recent college graduates looking for work are capable or willing to go do manual labor building bridges. Plus, it's not the 1930s anymore we don't need nearly as much manpower to construct public works and much of the work requires skilled labor.
Jerram wrote: Because people who disagree with him are acting like brownshirts,, kind of a wonderful irony given the hyperbole used to describe him.
I am concerned about what the mood will be like in America when the gutter scrap between Trump and Clinton kicks off. There was a lot of bitterness in certain quarters when Obama got elected, so I expect the atmosphere to be as equally as bad.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Jerram wrote: Because people who disagree with him are acting like brownshirts,, kind of a wonderful irony given the hyperbole used to describe him.
yeah I've noticed those rioting against Trump are acting the way they say he and his followers are, headlines don't read Trump supporters destroy property, or Trump supporters attack someone, its the ones against Trump doing these things. and seriously their message is lost amongst the violence they are committing, and the one thing that leaned me for voting for Trump is watching those rioters burn American Flags while waving Mexican Flags, that is so un-American it is not funny.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
and I repeat you have no idea how much jobs are very much needed.
There are an abundance of roads, bridges, damns, and other critical infrastructure that is in desperate need of repairs. All of which are a much higher priority than a wall, and all of which are routinely ignored.
Absolutely, if this was about a national works program (something I would actually support in this instance), than our crumbling infrastructure is ripe for repair. Not only that, but we could invest in more than just the usual infrastructure, but cable and fiber to push tech-based business, and other things like that.
Infrastructure projects could provide an economic boost but they're not going to do much for the job market. The majority of unemployed people aren't construction workers and skilled heavy equipment operators. It's not all those recent college graduates looking for work are capable or willing to go do manual labor building bridges. Plus, it's not the 1930s anymore we don't need nearly as much manpower to construct public works and much of the work requires skilled labor.
His post is a counter-point to the appeal that we should build the wall "because we need jobs".
There are a plethora of trade projects that could be done now that would expand the job market, without having to build a giant wall.
and I repeat you have no idea how much jobs are very much needed.
There are an abundance of roads, bridges, damns, and other critical infrastructure that is in desperate need of repairs. All of which are a much higher priority than a wall, and all of which are routinely ignored.
Absolutely, if this was about a national works program (something I would actually support in this instance), than our crumbling infrastructure is ripe for repair. Not only that, but we could invest in more than just the usual infrastructure, but cable and fiber to push tech-based business, and other things like that.
Infrastructure projects could provide an economic boost but they're not going to do much for the job market. The majority of unemployed people aren't construction workers and skilled heavy equipment operators. It's not all those recent college graduates looking for work are capable or willing to go do manual labor building bridges. Plus, it's not the 1930s anymore we don't need nearly as much manpower to construct public works and much of the work requires skilled labor.
His post is a counter-point to the appeal that we should build the wall "because we need jobs".
There are a plethora of trade projects that could be done now that would expand the job market, without having to build a giant wall.
Trade jobs, not unskilled labor jobs, we need more unskilled labor jobs since we are about to lose thousands if not millions soon.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Jerram wrote: Because people who disagree with him are acting like brownshirts,, kind of a wonderful irony given the hyperbole used to describe him.
yeah I've noticed those rioting against Trump are acting the way they say he and his followers are, headlines don't read Trump supporters destroy property, or Trump supporters attack someone, its the ones against Trump doing these things. and seriously their message is lost amongst the violence they are committing, and the one thing that leaned me for voting for Trump is watching those rioters burn American Flags while waving Mexican Flags, that is so un-American it is not funny.
Why don't you understand their message is "tolerance" of anyone who agrees with them?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/28 16:22:56
Jerram wrote: Because people who disagree with him are acting like brownshirts,, kind of a wonderful irony given the hyperbole used to describe him.
yeah I've noticed those rioting against Trump are acting the way they say he and his followers are, headlines don't read Trump supporters destroy property, or Trump supporters attack someone, its the ones against Trump doing these things. and seriously their message is lost amongst the violence they are committing, and the one thing that leaned me for voting for Trump is watching those rioters burn American Flags while waving Mexican Flags, that is so un-American it is not funny.
Why don't you understand their message is "tolerance" of anyone who agrees with them?
sorry I just can't tolerate it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 16:28:36
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Asterios wrote: Trade jobs, not unskilled labor jobs, we need more unskilled labor jobs since we are about to lose thousands if not millions soon.
I'm almost afraid to ask but, how are we about to lose thousands, if not "millions" of unskilled laborers?
with minimum wage going up to $15 an hour small businesses and franchises cannot survive, then top it off with several fast food franchises starting to bring in computerized/robotic workers that is even more jobs lost, and with several large companies going out of business (sports authority, Kmart/sears, etc.) all of which hire unskilled labor and those jobs will be gone.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
But it isn't. Some states are doing it, but most aren't.
I agree that $15 is way to high for a federal minimum, though. It should be $10, and states/townships would be able to raise it if necessary for their situation.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
The same has been said every time minimum wage has been raised, and it never happens. Minimum wage are at a historic low, and labor has never been cheaper in the recent past. We shouldn't have any unemployment at all if that argument is right.
d-usa wrote: The same has been said every time minimum wage has been raised, and it never happens. Minimum wage are at a historic low, and labor has never been cheaper in the recent past. We shouldn't have any unemployment at all if that argument is right.
actually it is happening right now, several businesses are closing Sears is on the edge of bankruptcy with their plans to sell off Kenmore,Craftsman, etc. Wendy's and Carl's Jr. are already replacing workers in stores with Robotic/computer screens, hell even a company in China just replaced 50,000 workers with Robotics. but on the home front, here in my own town we have entire shopping centers that are at 20% capacity now, with the bulk of the stores sitting empty.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 18:22:27
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Sears has been going bankrupt for years and it has nothing to do with wages. The market simply doesn't favor large department stores like it used to. Comparative to Walmart, Lowes, and other more modern chain stores, Sears is dying under the weight of its own infrastructure.
Workers in menial jobs getting replaced by machines was inevitable, and if China is doing it despite still being a very cheap labor market comparative to the US, it should be obvious that low wages don't stave off the inevitability of expanding automation.
None of the things you bring up have anything to do with the minimum wage, and a low minimum wage won't stop them from happening.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 18:35:14
I think the general labor woes are a direct consequence of stagnated wages. People want $15 an hour minimum wage but it's symptomatic of the larger problem. The most common argument against it is really that more skilled labor would have their earnings relative to minimum wage earners diminished. Everyone short of high earners have seen wages flattened or diminished over the last 30 years. Traditionally middle class jobs do not afford the standard of living they used to and it forces individuals to take on debt or work longer. With fewer Americans having the money to spend on goods and services it drives the prices of these things up and puts greater pressure on middle income earners. It's severe enough that it has forced some to work past retirement age which has contributed to woes of younger workers. Younger Americans are struck with a one-two punch of having taken on more debt for higher education amid a greater likelihood of unemployment or underpaying employment; this stifles the economy as they delay the normal process of settling down and family building as older workers fail to vacate higher paying positions.
Capitalism works best when there is an understanding that there is an inherent ethical imperative to enrich all stake holders and not just shareholders.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 18:37:41
That has happened as long as there have been small businesses and doesn't create a direct line between them closing and a rise in the minimum wage.
Asterios wrote: Sears is on the edge of bankruptcy with their plans to sell off Kenmore,Craftsman, etc.
Sears has had issues for decades now and isn't the beginning of the end of anything. Lots of business go down after awhile and some don't. Nothing about them having problems screams that it is only because, or even somewhat because, of a possible change to minimum wage.
Asterios wrote: Wendy's and Carl's Jr. are already replacing workers in stores with Robotic/computer screens, hell even a company in China just replaced 50,000 workers with Robotics.
If one thinks this wasn't going to happen all along one hasn't paid much attention to the past.
Asterios wrote: but on the home front, here in my own town we have entire shopping centers that are at 20% capacity now, with the bulk of the stores sitting empty.
Which is more of a sign that people have changed sociologically in there shopping habits. It isn't as if shopping centers have been with humans since the beginning of time, but are a product much like anything and come from a certain mind frame from a time and a place. That time is moving on.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
That has happened as long as there have been small businesses and doesn't create a direct line between them closing and a rise in the minimum wage.
Wrong I personally know of 4 friends who are shutting down their businesses since they see no reason for their employees to make more money then they do, that will be over 300 jobs right there, this has been because of medical, paid sick leave and now minimum wage increase was the straw that broke the camels back.
as it goes just around me I've seen over a dozen businesses shut down in the past month, more then any month prior to that.
Asterios wrote: Sears is on the edge of bankruptcy with their plans to sell off Kenmore,Craftsman, etc.
Sears has had issues for decades now and isn't the beginning of the end of anything. Lots of business go down after awhile and some don't. Nothing about them having problems screams that it is only because, or even somewhat because, of a possible change to minimum wage.
all said and done Sears would not sell off craftsman and Kenmore since without those brands they are no longer a business.
Asterios wrote: Wendy's and Carl's Jr. are already replacing workers in stores with Robotic/computer screens, hell even a company in China just replaced 50,000 workers with Robotics.
If one thinks this wasn't going to happen all along one hasn't paid much attention to the past.
it was done very little in the past since it was expensive to maintain such things, but with minimum wage going to $15, its now cheaper to do so.
Asterios wrote: but on the home front, here in my own town we have entire shopping centers that are at 20% capacity now, with the bulk of the stores sitting empty.
Which is more of a sign that people have changed sociologically in there shopping habits. It isn't as if shopping centers have been with humans since the beginning of time, but are a product much like anything and come from a certain mind frame from a time and a place. That time is moving on.
Trade and barter and selling have been around since one man met another.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 18:59:34
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Asterios wrote: Trade and barter and selling have been around since one man met another.
Indeed, one of the first manmade structures, Stonehenge, is actually the skeletal reinforcements for a glass-clad mega mall. The ravages of time have plundered the Frogurts, P.F Changs, Foot Lockers and Orange Julius which were the first comforts of early man, and would be lost to us if not for their crude cave paintings.
All snark aside, this is the part where a rational man must point out that you're being intentionally obtuse. Yes, mankind has always bartered, but he didn't do it in a shopping mall until 1952. Despite the odd fantasy you seem to be trying to see that high wages are killing malls, they have been dying for decades since people don't go to malls anymore.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Asterios wrote: Trade and barter and selling have been around since one man met another.
Indeed, one of the first manmade structures, Stonehenge, is actually the skeletal reinforcements for a glass-clad mega mall. The ravages of time have plundered the Frogurts, P.F Changs, Foot Lockers and Orange Julius which were the first comforts of early man, and would be lost to us if not for their crude cave paintings.
All snark aside, this is the part where a rational man must point out that you're being intentionally obtuse. Yes, mankind has always bartered, but he didn't do it in a shopping mall until 1952. Despite the odd fantasy you seem to be trying to see that high wages are killing malls, they have been dying for decades since people don't go to malls anymore.
before shopping malls there were markets where sellers and traders gathered to sell, so who is being obtuse?
Asterios wrote: before shopping malls there were markets where sellers and traders gathered to sell, so who is being obtuse?
Now you're moving the goalposts. I'm not playing intellectual Calvinball with you. You made an argument, a bad one - that malls are dying because of high wages - , and when pointed out that it was bad, you're trying to shift it somewhere else. Much as peoples shopping habits changed to accomodate giant mega malls, they slowly changed to them falling out of favor.
Sears has been in trouble since around 1992. Much like shopping malls, the problems you're attributing to high wages simply have nothing to do with high wages. Wages are historically low when you peg to inflation. This is not really a matter of opinion any more than the sun rising in the east.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/28 19:15:06
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Asterios wrote: before shopping malls there were markets where sellers and traders gathered to sell, so who is being obtuse?
Now you're moving the goalposts. I'm not playing intellectual Calvinball with you. You made an argument, a bad one - that malls are dying because of high wages - , and when pointed out that it was bad, you're trying to shift it somewhere else. Much as peoples shopping habits changed to accomodate giant mega malls, they slowly changed to them falling out of favor.
Sears has been in trouble since around 1992. Much like shopping malls, the problems you're attributing to high wages simply have nothing to do with high wages. Wages are historically low when you peg to inflation. This is not really a matter of opinion any more than the sun rising in the east.
where did I say malls? I'm talking shopping centers where people gather have a stall(store) and sell goods, this has been going on forever, and only difference between them and malls is malls are enclosed, and even that is not new. http://historylink101.com/2/Rome/roman-shopping.htm
furthermore my point is most businesses to stay afloat will have to let go/fire whatever a couple of employees, you get like 500,000 small businesses out of the millions of small businesses and franchises and you are looking at millions of people being unemployed.
Furthermore before Minimum wage has never leaped so high so fast, right now in California minimum wage will be increasing $1 a year, not a few cents, not .50 cents but $1 a year for 5 more years, (it went from $9 to $10 this year, next year to $11 and keep going till 2021 when it will be $15 an hour), you do the math and figure out how long that model will work for small businesses and such.
