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2009/06/27 19:58:19
Subject: Michael Jackson ..... almost dead? died? Something?
You are being a bit disingenuous MDG. You chastise people for thinking he did it when you also absolutely don't know that he didn't. We haven't seen or heard all the evidence their is to seen or know all their is to know. Each side of the argument can (and has) their own pieces of things they like to hold up and say is evidence for or against but that ignores the fundamental reality that no one knows. You don't know, I don't know, no one does. You can lean one way or the other, but you can't absolutely know. I don't know and I don't care. The only thing I knew about MJ was his music and that isn't dead. I can listen to Smooth Criminal anytime I want.
I can't say with certainty about the UK's legal system but in the US the amount you can spend on a defense (ie more and better lawyers) makes a huge difference in a trial. It is often the difference between guilty and not guilty and one of the largest continuing debates in our criminal justice system.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2009/06/27 20:41:31
Subject: Michael Jackson ..... almost dead? died? Something?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Whatever happened to 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty'. You know, the central tenet of US and UK Law?
You tell me. How can I be arrested for being on the street after someone called the cops for an unrelated reason? Even thought I had a legitimate excuse to be there? Might it be because of my painted/studded leather jacket and my plaid bondage pants? Might the fact that I get harassed by cops for that and African Americans get pulled over at a significantly higher rate have something to do with the judicial system being less than perfect?
Honestly, there's not much I can do for you if you believe that the guilty are punished and the innocent walk free.
Habeas corpus is dead. I wouldn't expect any other central tenets to last much longer.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So some kids claim to be able to identify a birthmark on his genitalia. So they might have seem him in the buff at some point? Like I dunno, they might just have walked in on him having a shower. Lots of ways you can see a person sans clothes without ever having sex with them.
True, I have seen people naked that I have not had sex with. But no children have "accidentally" seen me naked. It's just not that hard to keep your clothes on around kids. Allowing them to see him naked is extremely suspicious and I fail to see how it could reasonably happen accidentally.
EDIT: like to add a +1 to utan
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/27 21:03:58
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho Marx
Sanctjud wrote:It's not just lame... it's Twilight Blood Angels Nipples Lame.
2009/06/27 21:30:35
Subject: Michael Jackson ..... almost dead? died? Something?
Civilized world doesn't mean perfect world. We are "civilized" in the sense that more often than not we aren't going around killing and stealing all the time (or more than we could be). That doesn't mean that our infrastructure or systems are infallible; that they always work the way in practice as we believe they should work in the realm of ideas.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2009/06/27 21:37:44
Subject: Michael Jackson ..... almost dead? died? Something?
Mad Rabbit wrote:You tell me. How can I be arrested for being on the street after someone called the cops for an unrelated reason?
"Innocent until proven guilty" means you aren't sentenced until proven guilty, not that aren't arrested without having been proven guilty.
Your examples make no sense in that regard. You haven't been proven guilty in a court of law because you're wearing a jacket, but you haven't been proven guilty in a court of law if you're standing over a corpse with a bloody knife either. You're just going into some tangent on police corruption, which is neither here nor there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/27 22:39:09
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
2009/06/27 22:20:56
Subject: Re:Michael Jackson ..... almost dead? died? Something?
LuciusAR wrote:By the law of the civilized world it does. The alternative is terrifying.
At the level of government, yes it is very important that a person be considered innocent until proven guilty, and if tried and found innocent they should be allowed to continue with their lives. These are important principles for government to maintain, because government is very powerful. On the other hand, we are people on the internet and not powerful at all.
So if we look at the case of Michael Jackson and say 'that guy was probably a kiddie fiddler' civilisation isn't being threatened.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
