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ALL kidding aside, Gwar! HAS made an effort to change his ways.

GIVE him the benefit of the doubt.

Wow, this is a convoluted thread (and Gwar has beeen very well behaved) Please let me know if I have this right, cos I have game on the weekend... (please correct me if I state something wrong):

1) Walkers are vehicles. Page 56: TYPE
The different types of vehicle are: transport, tank, open-topped, fast, skimmer and walker.

2) There are three phases per turn - Movement, Shooting, and Assault. Page 9. These are capitalised as they designate the 'phase' something occurs in. That is movement (the physical relocation of a model from one spot to another) occurs in the Movement phase (normally the first order of action in a turn).

3) Pivoting on the spot alone does not count as moving, so a vehicle that only pivots in the Movement phase counts as stationary. Page 56. this means i can face my LR to a different direction, to set up for a shot. Vehicles can turn (pivot) any number of times during the Movement phase. As such, I can place my LR facing the HiveTyrant. I also pivot with my Defiler to point at the same Hive Tyrant. Assume nothing else is in that direction to fire at as an alternative, but a Carnifex exists 180 degrees in the other direction (behind the LR and the Defiler).

Page 56 also says that Immobilised vehicles cannot Pivot, even tho it is not movement. This is a specific rule that applies to Vehicles and one arguement is that this rule applies only to pivoting in the Movement Phase.

4) Once the Movement turn is finished, I have entered the shooting phase. I decide to shoot at the Hive tyrant with my 4 Lascannon weilding Havocs - success, it dies! I then have my land raider and my defiler facing at empty space, with a carnifex behind them!

The Land Raider is restricted to firing in front or wherever the sponsons allow (arc of fire) - in this instance, not directly behind it. The LR cannot shoot this turn.
The Defiler is also facing this direction - yet due to its superior maneuvablity, it can pivot in the shooting phase, allowing it to turn around and shoot at the carnifex.

The question appears to be "Is the special pivoting rule that allows walkers to pivot in the Shooting phase affected by the immobilised result, despite it not being specifically restricted in the Shooting phase (i.e. as it specifically mentioned in the Movement phase)?".

My opinion:

- I consider that the use of the consistent word 'pivot' in both the Movement and the Shooting phase indicates an intent to represent the same action in both phases (this is consistent with legislative interpretation). Therefore all vehicles may pivot in the movement phase, walkers may undertake a secondary pivot in the shooting phase.
- As I have intepreted the word pivot to mean the same thing in both phases, and the rules clearly state that Immobilised vehicles may not pivot, I consider that pivoting is denied in both phases when a walker is immobilised. I consider also this is supported by the rules that state 'pivoting' is not counted as 'movement', and arguably is therefore not restricted to any particular 'Phase of Action".

If I have misinterpreted anything I would appreciate being corrected - Im by no means an expert on the rules! However without a good argument, I think this is how I will play it.

Kindest regards

Darkkt

Darkkt, that's pretty much the reasoning behind the "immobilized walkers don't pivot for shooting" camp.

It's slightly important to point out that a non-immobilized walker not only can but must pivot to face its target in the shooting phase.

That's spot on.

Emperors Faithful wrote:eh?
I don't know about any Grey Hunters (Spehz Puppehz), but I remember that people argued over the WORDING in the Banshee argument. As Eldar were made during late 4th ed, the rule said they ignored cover 'bonuses' when charging. Now with 5th ed, there are no bonuses, but 'penalties', it is clear that RAI by GW were that this should work in 5th ed, yet a simply ill-forseen piece of wording has led to much trollrage.

not true. check out the Stealth and Bolster Defenses special rules

@Spatanghost: I have no idea what you're talking about...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, wait. I shopuld probably swap 'bonuses' and penalties around...

willydstyle wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Also, while Dreadnoughts may have the ability to turn around 180 degrees (or may not, I don't know), Killa Kans, Deff Dreads, Sentinels, Penitent Engines, and Soulgrinders aren't so lucky.

Dreadnoughts have no such ability, it is not written either in the space marine codex, nor is it written in the main rule book.

I was referring to the hypothetical abilities of an actual dreadnought. (Unless you were too?)

I concur precisely with Darkkt. Well written, sir.