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Manchu wrote:

Gwar! wrote:
-Arms the Death Ray-
feth with people all you want, but mess with Kittens, you go down.

Just Gwar! then, sorry for the blanket statement.

It does raise another question. Is it wrong to hurt animals because animals have an innate dignity that people violate when being cruel to them or is it wrong because cruelty violates innate human dignity?

You just gave me a headache. I have a solution.

I've never met a dog I didn't like.
In contrast I often meet people who are a waste of skin.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Sure it is. get beat by a stick. I can guarantee baheavior change. You're not Gandhi. You'd change.

A change in behavior isn't the same as a change in values.

Blah blah blah I don't give a about anyone's "values." I care about what they do.

So again, stick behavioral modification is wonderfully effective for 99% of the populace.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wrexasaur wrote:

If its good enough for Khorne, its good enough for me.

Dreadwinter wrote:I don't think the argument is so much that this is Animal Cruelty, but more so that Goths should not be allowed to do things like this or anything really.

Next we will be seeing Goth Furries. Nobody wants that.

(emphasis mine)

The HORROR!!!

You Rang?

Frazzled wrote:
Blah blah blah I don't give a about anyone's "values." I care about what they do.

So again, stick behavioral modification is wonderfully effective for 99% of the populace.

Values inform behavior, and stick modification doesn't insure a change in it which you'll like.

Anyway, I see you're perfectly happy to govern others when your sensibilities are offended. How very liberal of you.

Values are irrelevanta and utterly malleable. Behavior is the only thing that matters. I don't care why a serial killer stops killing, only that he stops killing.

Frazzled wrote:Values are irrelevanta and utterly malleable. Behavior is the only thing that matters. I don't care why a serial killer stops killing, only that he stops killing.

They aren't utterly malleable, that's one of their defining characteristics. If its easily malleable, then it isn't a value. The fact that they vary over a large range from person to person has no bearing on their malleability.

As to their relevance: are you saying you only care about how your daughter behaves, and not also about what she enjoys? That seems strange considering the way behavior changes when consequences are removed; particularly those administered by punishment. The same applies to criminals and repeat offenses. You wouldn't grant clemency to someone who killed in a crime of passion if it was evident that he really enjoyed killing.

dogma wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:
What would be good for the world, and probably any worlds near enough for us to settle? Definately.

Good? Why would it be good? Natural selection brutally weeds out those beings unfit to survive; particularly genetic mutants. Humans are only a part of that process, not the whole of it. You may as well simply extend that notion to all life, as life which does not exist cannot have a negative impact on itself. But then the absence of a negative impact is not really good, its simply neutral.

You're right, good is totally subjective. I do however view humans (myself too, of course) with the utmost contempt.

I could come up with a long winded and paradoxial argument (my favourite kind) to support my point of view, but instead I'll just say:

WTF was she thinking. Lol