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A lot of Citadel stuff was horrible back in the day and definitely inferior to historical models of the same era. Go have a look for instance at the earlier Chaplain Lemartes mini or some of the early beakie minis, they're vomitous compared to what's available now.

I think the main problem with these guys is how the folds in the skirt have been done. The heads I think look great as do the weapons. If you want to see rough minis that don't need to be, the historical company HaT produces some really poor sculpts and casts for their 1/72 scale lines.

They have definite conversion potential, gas mask heads could be used to turn cadians into proxy stormtroopers, the rifles next to the bare heads with some modification would make excellent shotguns, I'm sure that squidhead will end up on many renegade shoulders of all types.

So how much money would you really be saving here?

Well I sat down and did the math.

If you love the way they look and don't change a thing... then you will save (basic troops as base) $168 us.

130 GW Guard @ $22/10 = $286 $2.20 each
126 WF Guard package deal = $118 .93 cents each

Now, if you are in the same boat I am in.. and don't like the looks of the heads or the weapons at all and would have to replace them to even consider buying these... then you are looking at the following:
(Pig Iron Heads and MaxMini Weapons for comparison)

126 WF Guard package deal = $118
7 packs of militia helm heads @ $6.13 each = $42.91
13 packs of MaxMini Guns @ $6.96 each = $90.48

$251.39 for 126 guys WF
$286 for 130 guys GW

And I am pretty sure you could negate that gap even more if you used a GW discount site prices and not GW direct.

My 2 cents.

jp400 wrote:Now, if you are in the same boat I am in.. and don't like the looks of the heads or the weapons at all and would have to replace them to even consider buying these... then you are looking at the following:
(Pig Iron Heads and MaxMini Weapons for comparison)

126 WF Guard package deal = $118
7 packs of militia helm heads @ $6.13 each = $42.91
13 packs of MaxMini Guns @ $6.96 each = $90.48

$251.39 for 126 guys WF
$286 for 130 guys GW

And I am pretty sure you could negate that gap even more if you used a GW discount site prices and not GW direct.

To say nothing of the massive workload you'd have to put in converting the arms to take guns that were never designed to fit them in the first place. And replicating that over 100 times. The figures you'd end up would be top-heavy (metal heads) and at the same time very easy to damage (resin guns). On the other hand, at least you'd have something more interesting than 13 squads of plastic Cadians.

jp400 wrote:So how much money would you really be saving here?

Well I sat down and did the math.

If you love the way they look and don't change a thing... then you will save (basic troops as base) $168 us.

130 GW Guard @ $22/10 = $286 $2.20 each
126 WF Guard package deal = $118 .93 cents each

Now, if you are in the same boat I am in.. and don't like the looks of the heads or the weapons at all and would have to replace them to even consider buying these... then you are looking at the following:
(Pig Iron Heads and MaxMini Weapons for comparison)

126 WF Guard package deal = $118
7 packs of militia helm heads @ $6.13 each = $42.91
13 packs of MaxMini Guns @ $6.96 each = $90.48

$251.39 for 126 guys WF
$286 for 130 guys GW

And I am pretty sure you could negate that gap even more if you used a GW discount site prices and not GW direct.

My 2 cents.

Well if you're like me and insist they all have Abbaddon's head then that's $20 a model right there. And if you insist on basing them all on gold kugarands?!?!!?!? Then the price goes up to $123 a model!!!one!!!! Not to mention the diamonds in each eye!

JP, if you want Canadians go for it, no one is stopping you or will think less of you. But making up straw man arguements to show that models that cost 40% of what GW charages are somehow more expensive... well you're just looking silly now.

I'm on the fence, not because I don't like them (I do) but because I have 5 IG armies as is (zombies, Warzone conversions, Empire militia, Catachan SWAT team, Tallarn).

I think his main point is that some parts of the WGF models aren't good enough looking, so you have to buy more 3rd party parts for them.
I'll be honest, I'd rather have converted WGF models than basic cadians, but still, I would not want basic WGF shock troopers.

ph34r wrote:I think his main point is that some parts of the WGF models aren't good enough looking, so you have to buy more 3rd party parts for them.
I'll be honest, I'd rather have converted WGF models than basic cadians, but still, I would not want basic WGF shock troopers.

It still doesn't make any sense. If you don't like some parts of them (which is really what 'aren't good enough looking' means) then don't buy them, or pay more to replace those parts.

Let's say you change the weapons to make them relatively legal in a game of 40k (this is probably what I would do..)

And in money I understand (using your figures as a base)

130 BORING GW GUARD - £12 per box of 10 = £156

126 GREATCOATS - $118 = £78
126 LASGUNS from a bitz site - average 30p per gun = £38
TOTAL = £116

So a saving of £40, assuming you want no heavy or special weapons. If you DO want heavy and specials, ordered from a bits site, you're looking at an extra £40 or so anyway.

Basically, to get them 40k WYSIWYG, it's about the same price, but you get a much better looking army. After all, who wants more Cadians...?

You can also get these at 25% off from internet stores...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

jp400 wrote:So how much money would you really be saving here?

Well I sat down and did the math.

If you love the way they look and don't change a thing... then you will save (basic troops as base) $168 us.

130 GW Guard @ $22/10 = $286 $2.20 each
126 WF Guard package deal = $118 .93 cents each

Now, if you are in the same boat I am in.. and don't like the looks of the heads or the weapons at all and would have to replace them to even consider buying these... then you are looking at the following:
(Pig Iron Heads and MaxMini Weapons for comparison)

126 WF Guard package deal = $118
7 packs of militia helm heads @ $6.13 each = $42.91
13 packs of MaxMini Guns @ $6.96 each = $90.48

$251.39 for 126 guys WF
$286 for 130 guys GW

And I am pretty sure you could negate that gap even more if you used a GW discount site prices and not GW direct.

My 2 cents.

Well if you're like me and insist they all have Abbaddon's head then that's $20 a model right there. And if you insist on basing them all on gold kugarands?!?!!?!? Then the price goes up to $123 a model!!!one!!!! Not to mention the diamonds in each eye!

JP, if you want Canadians go for it, no one is stopping you or will think less of you. But making up straw man arguements to show that models that cost 40% of what GW charages are somehow more expensive... well you're just looking silly now.

And the "I completly missed the point and made myself out to be a 4th point of contact" award goes to......

I was just throwing out numbers on what people might be looking at. Don't like it? Deal with it.

jp400 wrote:

And the "I completly missed the point and made myself out to be a 4th point of contact" award goes to......

I was just throwing out numbers on what people might be looking at. Don't like it? Deal with it.

But you totally ignored the whole base my minis with gold kugarands constituancy!!!!!

They're cheaper, end of story. If you want to buy more expensive heads for them then compare that scenario to those who do that already for the GW models. Remember too that you'll be able to sell the unused WGF heads to those that want to change the look of their cadians and so forth.

Kyoto, if you know where to get krugerrands for $103 I'd love to know.

But jp400 and ArbitorIan your maths isn't really relevant.
Try to find me 130 GW Greatcoats for $286 then we'll talk!
Going to the collectors range means $35 for a box of 10.
That's $455 for 130 models, ouch.

These new models with pig iron heads, new guns, diamond eyes etc still come in way cheaper than the next alternative.

Yea, I am more in line with Kyoto and Ian on this one. I run Cadians with Pig Iron heads just for a different look. I am tempted to grab these for Inq Storm Troopers or Carapace vets, just to keep a different look. I don't know that I would buy a 130 of the buggers, but considering I and most people who really care that an army is not just another Cadian army are going to be doing some conversions one way or the other, these are a pretty nice little deal. Particularly seeing as how they are cheap enough that getting 30 and deciding half way through your plan isn't working out isn't too much of a setback.

After seeing the sprue pics I am impressed. I have bought a box and may get more depending on how cool they are after painting.

Meh, people using them for 40k would be using them for IG grunts, which die, in droves. Why be so worried about what something looks like when it has a 1 turn life expectancy?

I did some math myself.

WGF 90 for $74.99
Forgeworld 90 for $484.07

Forgeworld gets you better detail and more variety of poses, but as I would have to convert them to chaos anyway, I'd rather take the the extra $410 spend $100 on upgrading them and pocket the other $310.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I

Empchild wrote:@kid_kyoto: I understand they don't intrest you and thats fine and all, but when you create a line you kinda have to work on it till completion.

I don't think brand loyalty and complete product lines are nearly as important for historical wargames than they are for us. Since WGF does not have an inhouse rules system for their Vikings or Romans, there's no need to try to establish a cohesive WGF Historicals brand. I mean, by the nature of their hobby, historicals players are far more at home with the idea of shopping around for miniatures that fit a particular scenario and rules system.

Very far removed from the truth good sir. When most historical gamers build armies they don't mix and match lines that much because more often then not the lines don't match up well at all. Heck even warlord games and wargames factorys lines really aren't on the same par with each other. I have been historical gamming now for 17 years and believe me when a gamer starts an army for something they like to stick to the same line for consistancy. Rules don't really matter as much as adaptations are more common then you think. Often in house rules are drawn together for gamming historicals more then anything. WGF having a set rules line would mean little to thier models themselves, and thus by them not having a full line of squat their is little reason when most of their products are historicals to purchase them.

cadbren wrote:Remember too that you'll be able to sell the unused WGF heads to those that want to change the look of their cadians and so forth.

Hah. I doubt that very much.

Build video, bit long as he has to clip the parts out on camera to demonstrate the overlapping gates on many parts.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BeastsOfWar#p/u/0/5PMW4e72P38

I actually rather like them, it could tempt me to starting a guard army when there's more of them available, I always liked the tanks but not the troopers, lol.

The fit of the left arms seems to be poor.

Mostly because they've tried to make the same arm fit 4 different weapons, nice try but it doesn't really work.

Maybe they're testing the waters with sci fi, but they need to do more than one sprue of three guys per set to flesh this concept out. Maybe they just figure that most wont even use their arms and will use GW arms instead so they've skimped on the design to save space. An extra arm that would better hold one of the special weapons could have replaced a couple of the heads.

Still, I'm going to get some of these to play around with.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ph34r wrote:

cadbren wrote:Remember too that you'll be able to sell the unused WGF heads to those that want to change the look of their cadians and so forth.

Hah. I doubt that very much.

Don't doubt the cool factor that space nazis have, they'll be a cheap way to turn cadians into naziesque troops "nooo, they're not really space nazis, I'm just painting the officers black because they look cool that way, and no that cammo pattern is not supposed to be pea pattern that's just how I paint..." "Okaay..and the red armbands with white circles?..." "But there's no swastika, see"

There is more coming, the Beasts of War guys mentioned they have plans for a heavy weapons sprue and a command sprue.

agnosto wrote:Meh, people using them for 40k would be using them for IG grunts, which die, in droves. Why be so worried about what something looks like when it has a 1 turn life expectancy?

I should remember myself that everytime I convert a gaunt

cadbren wrote:

ph34r wrote:

cadbren wrote:Remember too that you'll be able to sell the unused WGF heads to those that want to change the look of their cadians and so forth.

Hah. I doubt that very much.

Don't doubt the cool factor that space nazis have, they'll be a cheap way to turn cadians into naziesque troops "nooo, they're not really space nazis, I'm just painting the officers black because they look cool that way, and no that cammo pattern is not supposed to be pea pattern that's just how I paint..." "Okaay..and the red armbands with white circles?..." "But there's no swastika, see"

I just think that the helmets are sub par compared to easy alternatives like Pig Iron.

ph34r wrote:I just think that the helmets are sub par compared to easy alternatives like Pig Iron.

Pig Iron? I was recently looking at the Perry Miniatures site, beautiful stuff and also in plastic.
I like the helmeted heads, the major problem with them other than having to shorten the neck is that the underside of the helmet rim is a solid block. The googly eye lenses could be better too but it is sci fi so they're still plausible.

The die is cast in any case and I've ordered a couple of boxes of these, I'm sure I wont be disappointed. Hopefully they sell as many as they are hoping to and can then release the add on set quickly. A couple of weeks to tool up the command/heavy weapons they reckon if the first proves popular.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gargskull wrote:There is more coming, the Beasts of War guys mentioned they have plans for a heavy weapons sprue and a command sprue.

For now these are being combined onto one sprue which will reduce the options for both units unfortunately.

Most people buy these as replacement for IG conversions right?
Do they really need to pour more money into expanding these guys?

I think they should move on to the next project.

The to be released set only lets you proxy basic guardsmen. The add on set would let you proxy/convert officers and heavy weapons crews as the add on set would include kneeling figures.

cadbren wrote:The to be released set only lets you proxy basic guardsmen. The add on set would let you proxy/convert officers and heavy weapons crews as the add on set would include kneeling figures.

Ooh that i like

for an FYI on Wargames Factory sizes - here's a comparison shot of their zombies with a Cadian & a Terminator & the 2nd shot is with different heads (MaxMini Rebel, original, West Wind SotTR German):





my guess is they'll be a bit small if put next to other human models, look good against an SM, and different heads may look a bit iffy.
I'll still buy some though, if anything else just to have a decent look.