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targetawg wrote:I've played in countless tournaments over the last ~10 year so, as well as gamed casually pretty much every weekend, and have never seen intentional draws as an issue...

targetawg wrote:I think the people stating things like "the entire community feels x way" "this isn't acceptable in warhammer" "no one does this in x system" need to get a reality check. Your set of observations is generally: localized and a small set.

Am I misunderstanding your post, or are you actually saying in one sentence that you've played in tourneys for 10 years and never seen intentional draws take place? And yet, people saying "this isn't acceptable in warhammer" are using a local set of observations... aren't your observations confirming the same thing?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post... . However, you mention your magic background as well. I'd be interested in knowing if any of the warhammer tournaments you've been to have had:

1) An intentional draw (agreed to before playing the game) take place
2) People being cool with this

If so, I'd be rather shocked, and would like to hear what event this took place at. You're speaking very generally, yet getting upset at people making generalizations on the other side. If someone could simply provide a situation where an intentional draw was agreed to and carried out in a warhammer tournament, and the TO was cool with this, you'd have more of a case.

As it stands, what it seems people have seen is people letting themselves be massacred... which a lot of people also have a problem with.

I don't see the issue. How about you make top table in the final round and play it out how you see fit, and stop worrying what others are doing. If you are not there, through your own play and list choices, it is not up to you at all.

Keep in mind that there are two sets of 'games' going on at the tournament, the ones you play round to round, and the overall trying to place. Tournaments are so skewed anyway that you have to massacre all the way through to place, meaning that it is built to create a disadvantage for less aggressive armies. Likewise, you cannot control someone granting their opponent full battle points just because they are losing, possibly boosting them to a higher standing than their play or army deserves.

If you don't want this to happen, ensure that the entire tournament is win-loss only without battle points. Otherwise, the situation is set up for this to happen and it is part of the game.

British GTs are win-loss.

That's part of why Tau armies tend to place higher in the UK results than US.

For what it's worth, I do think I could have ratcheted down my tone in this thread... was just reacting to what I saw as people saying something that I would view as cheating to be completely normal.

I also don't think we should be justifying "unfair" play by saying "it's a tournament" and the like. Sportsmanship shouldn't be checked at the door and all that... and to me that includes playing our your losses to the best of your ability, and not agreeing to a result (however likely it seems) before playing.

Seems like this is just common sense, and I guess I was just reacting to people saying it wasn't so... but obviously, in at least the card game realm and probably some others, this seems to be acceptable, and so it does help to clarify that it is not (if a TO thinks it is not) in a rules packet.

So I just wanted to concede that point and say that I can see where some of you guys are coming from a bit more now.