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Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:To give an example:
In 6th grade, I took what was called 'Classical History'. It was from Hammurabi to the Renaissance, and lasted the whole year.
In 7th grade, I took what was called 'European History'. It covered Europe and Russia starting with the rise and fall of the Roman Empire to the reconciliation of East and West Germany and the aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union.
In 8th grade(which was in 2001), I took what was called 'American History'. It covered the discovery and colonization of the New World and ended with the US intervention in Somalia.

You covered the entirety of European History in a single year?

Bear in mind that a 'single year' of the US public school system starts in early/mid August and ends at the start of June. There's around 3-4 weeks of break outside of summer.

We had whole years dedicated to just one of the World Wars. I don't know how you can call that comprehensive.

By that same vein I'm not sure how you can have whole years dedicated to one of the World Wars, especially as one class.

There's a lot of 'overlap' in Classical/European history. The parts that were 'overlapped' like the rise and fall of Rome and the Renaissance tended to be fairly 'brief primers' based on what you already learnt.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:To give an example:
In 6th grade, I took what was called 'Classical History'. It was from Hammurabi to the Renaissance, and lasted the whole year.
In 7th grade, I took what was called 'European History'. It covered Europe and Russia starting with the rise and fall of the Roman Empire to the reconciliation of East and West Germany and the aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union.
In 8th grade(which was in 2001), I took what was called 'American History'. It covered the discovery and colonization of the New World and ended with the US intervention in Somalia.

You covered the entirety of European History in a single year?

We had whole years dedicated to just one of the World Wars. I don't know how you can call that comprehensive.

Maybe its because European and other school systems cover foreign history just like we cover ours. In England they probably learn about the colonial era, War of 1812, WW1, the Great Depression(because it affected ENgland as well), WW2, and then that's really it for the american history they learn. We learn mostly about the parts the US was influential in in basic history and then European History doesn't really cover the wars, it covers more European exclusive history like the plague, Renaissance, Hundred Years War, and other European colonization, like the Boer War, and so on.

In middle school I didn't learn hose histories, I just had basic history each year. I did however learn Latin my first two years in middle school, and also learned algebra and geometry. In highschool I took World History, AP European History, AP US History, and AP Government. AP courses are college geared courses that will give you a letter grade as well as a chance to take a test that gives you college credit for it as well, neat courses seeing as though you can pay $80 and get a college credit worth $500 at least. In my AP European History class we had to read 'The Prince' and 'Utopia' for a summer reading project, both pretty good books and 'The Prince' answered a bit of the 'why don't people just rebel' question for dictators. In our European History class we knew WW2 left and right so we didn't cover it, we covered philosophers, inventions, and as said before European exclusive events. We did cover bits and pieces of why the wars started from a European view, but didn't devote an entire book to a subject we learn in US History. I guess that makes us a bit better than your school books, our books teach what they're supposed to teach. Sure WW2 was in Europe, but just about every single country in the world was involved and as said before its mostly covered in US History so its not in the European History book as much. So yeah, learning about WW2 should've been covered under your Australian History courses seeing as though Australia was in the war as well, I know because the US gave you tanks.


Its also funny when we compare American Math and Science scores of the average student to foreign countries. Once you guys start sending all of your students to higher level sciences instead of just teaching the ones who don't do math well vocational skills then maybe we can remeasure the math scores.

Again: In the US a student who doesn't do well in Math and doesn't really want to attend a high school is forced to take Math and go to high school. In other foreign countries students must take a test to see if they can go to a higher level school and the others are taught vocational skills. See the bit of difference there?

Kanluwen wrote:Bear in mind that a 'single year' of the US public school system starts in early/mid August and ends at the start of June. There's around 3-4 weeks of break outside of summer.

Yes, I realise that it's not 365 days of the year.

We had whole years dedicated to just one of the World Wars. I don't know how you can call that comprehensive.

By that same vein I'm not sure how you can have whole years dedicated to one of the World Wars, especially as one class.

You mean how we endured it or how we found enough stuff that was relevant to it? Becuase it's not that hard to do the latter, and the former depends largely on the student.

There's a lot of 'overlap' in Classical/European history. The parts that were 'overlapped' like the rise and fall of Rome and the Renaissance tended to be fairly 'brief primers' based on what you already learnt.

Still compacting the entirety of European history into a single year seems...half-baked?

Frazzled wrote:I'm not getting where you're going here.

I don't think you're really even trying...

To repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I said I don't agree with the ideas in the OP's article. Honestly, how the FETH more clear do I have to make myself?

We cover world wars in US history. When we teach European history, its different stuff because we know the world wars.

Its not compact, you'll be fairly surprised in how much we cover in European History.


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Melissia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:I'm not getting where you're going here.

I don't think you're really even trying...

To repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I said I don't agree with the ideas in the OP's article. Honestly, how the FETH more clear do I have to make myself?

Caps lock and increase text size.

halonachos wrote: So yeah, learning about WW2 should've been covered under your Australian History courses seeing as though Australia was in the war as well, I know because the US gave you tanks.

WW2 was covered in our history lessons, but the year where we specifically covered Australian history (our final year) mostly involved either our experiences with the Indigenous people (not exactly a picnic) and the role of Australia in more modern events like East Timor.

WW2 was given 3/4 of it's own year of school study. The first 1/4 was about the Russian revolution (which can be considered patently awesome/terrible).

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Bear in mind that a 'single year' of the US public school system starts in early/mid August and ends at the start of June. There's around 3-4 weeks of break outside of summer.

Yes, I realise that it's not 365 days of the year.

We had whole years dedicated to just one of the World Wars. I don't know how you can call that comprehensive.

By that same vein I'm not sure how you can have whole years dedicated to one of the World Wars, especially as one class.

You mean how we endured it or how we found enough stuff that was relevant to it? Because it's not that hard to do the latter, and the former depends largely on the student.

I'm kind of curious as to which World War it was now.

Or if you might be mistaking things that we cover as their own topics(such as Germany's depression after WW1 that led to Hitler becoming a Major Player) as part of the war proper.

There's a lot of 'overlap' in Classical/European history. The parts that were 'overlapped' like the rise and fall of Rome and the Renaissance tended to be fairly 'brief primers' based on what you already learnt.

Still compacting the entirety of European history into a single year seems...half-baked?

Compacting the entirety of European history into a single year, when you've already learned 'the basics' of a lot of European history the year before means it's not really "a single year".

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Bear in mind that a 'single year' of the US public school system starts in early/mid August and ends at the start of June. There's around 3-4 weeks of break outside of summer.

Yes, I realise that it's not 365 days of the year.

We had whole years dedicated to just one of the World Wars. I don't know how you can call that comprehensive.

By that same vein I'm not sure how you can have whole years dedicated to one of the World Wars, especially as one class.

You mean how we endured it or how we found enough stuff that was relevant to it? Becuase it's not that hard to do the latter, and the former depends largely on the student.

There's a lot of 'overlap' in Classical/European history. The parts that were 'overlapped' like the rise and fall of Rome and the Renaissance tended to be fairly 'brief primers' based on what you already learnt.

Still compacting the entirety of European history into a single year seems...half-baked?

Why? We also have to deal with Asia, Africa, and most importantly the Americas. Europe's just like this place you know...


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Melissia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:I'm not getting where you're going here.

I don't think you're really even trying...

To repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I said I don't agree with the ideas in the OP's article. Honestly, how the FETH more clear do I have to make myself?

I'm talking about your behavioral modification scheme. Define what you're talking about.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

halonachos wrote: So yeah, learning about WW2 should've been covered under your Australian History courses seeing as though Australia was in the war as well, I know because the US gave you tanks.

WW2 was covered in our history lessons, but the year where we specifically covered Australian history (our final year) mostly involved either our experiences with the Indigenous people (not exactly a picnic) and the role of Australia in more modern events like East Timor.

WW2 was given 3/4 of it's own year of school study. The first 1/4 was about the Russian revolution (which can be considered patently awesome/terrible).

We learn about how we dealt with the natives as well, we learned that in elementary school.

Elementary school: Grades 1-5, history includes: Ancient History(Romans, Chinese, Greeks, etc), US History(very kid friendly version of how we dealt with the natives and slavery), World Wars, and then state history.

Middle School: State History, US History, and European History

High School: World History(ancient history), European History(more in depth, covers era by era), US History(in depth US History, Manifest Destiny, look that up in one of your text books and I doubt you'll find it), and Government(how the US government system works).

We used these to help supplement our texts.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm kind of curious as to which World War it was now.

Or if you might be mistaking things that we cover as their own topics(such as Germany's depression after WW1 that led to Hitler becoming a Major Player) as part of the war proper.

We studied both of them, though WWI was more mixed in with the lead up to the war and the aftermath with the Treaty of Versailles. With WWII we studied the war proper, from Appeasement to the dropping of the Bomb.

Compacting the entirety of European history into a single year, when you've already learned 'the basics' of a lot of European history the year before means it's not really "a single year".

Probably my Colonial roots speaking here, but yes. That does still come across as rushed. By God man, pay proper homage to your European masters.

It's not simple. School is more than merely a place where you learn booksmarts. It's also a place where one learns social mores. From the earliest years, schools need to set the right attitude in their various staff, whom will attempt to distill the same values onto their students.

As it is, in many schools these days harmful actions based off of homophobia are perfectly acceptable despite it supposedly being against the rules.

We do pay homage to them and their 78 years of constant fighting between England and France that did absolutely nothing but diminish the population.

Apparantly Italy got its teeth kicked in during that war too. Good thing they had the banking families to help them out.


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Melissia wrote:It's not simple. School is more than merely a place where you learn booksmarts. It's also a place where one learns social mores. From the earliest years, schools need to set the right attitude in their various staff, whom will attempt to distill the same values onto their students.

As it is, in many schools these days harmful actions based off of homophobia are perfectly acceptable despite it supposedly being against the rules.

My school had a 'Gay, Straight Alliance' club thing. Never went because I really didn't care about the worries of homosexuals in the modern era, for the most part lynching a homosexual is a social taboo compared to yesteryears.

Frazzled wrote:
Why? We also have to deal with Asia, Africa, and most importantly the Americas. Europe's just like this place you know...

I was always dissapointed that we never looked at Ancient Chinese History. By all accounts it seems kickass.

halonachos wrote:
We learn about how we dealt with the natives as well, we learned that in elementary school.

We did the same, though that mainly involved us getting our faces painted and throwing boomerangs around the place (a Health and Safety nightmare for the teacheres). Once we got to our final year things became much grittier.

halonachos wrote:My school had a 'Gay, Straight Alliance' club thing. Never went because I really didn't care about the worries of homosexuals in the modern era, for the most part lynching a homosexual is a social taboo compared to yesteryears.

Mine still had students beat up because they acted "gay" and the offending parties essentially got away with a slap on the wrist, while the "gay" students were punished. This was ten years ago, but that's still quite recent.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Why? We also have to deal with Asia, Africa, and most importantly the Americas. Europe's just like this place you know...

I was always dissapointed that we never looked at Ancient Chinese History. By all accounts it seems kickass.

It was easily one of my favorite subjects from world history, though they acted rather similar to how they act now.

halonachos wrote:We do pay homage to them and their 78 years of constant fighting between England and France that did absolutely nothing but diminish the population.

Bollocks, the English had a bloody good time an the French got a Saint out of the deal to boot!

Texas also has Geography and History of Texas.

Edit: my boy just aced his APs to place out of college history. Hurray for my wallet!

youbedead wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Why? We also have to deal with Asia, Africa, and most importantly the Americas. Europe's just like this place you know...

I was always dissapointed that we never looked at Ancient Chinese History. By all accounts it seems kickass.

It was easily one of my favorite subjects from world history, though they acted rather similar to how they act now.

Really?

*Imagines Tiannemen Sqaure with Chariots instead of tanks*

Wow, the Chinese are awesome.

@EF:

The histories weren't electives, they were mandatory but we did have a choice between 'AP' and 'Core'.

We had three choices in levels of english as well: 'AP', 'Honors', and 'Core'. Not really electives but closer to the difficulty levels in a video game.

@Melissia:

Wow, you're school is messed up. We didn't get away with anything like that. Hell a black person calling another black person the n-word was frowned upon if a teacher heard it.

halonachos wrote:Wow, you're school is messed up.

No, my school was southern.

Frazzled wrote:Texas also has Geography and History of Texas.

Edit: my boy just aced his APs to place out of college history. Hurray for my wallet!

Not hurray for him, looking back AP courses were probably the worst choice ever. Sure you place out of general electives but you get slammed with Sophomore/Junior year stuff in the Freshman year. Starting out in Calc II with nothing to counterbalance that grade killed my GPA.


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Melissia wrote:

halonachos wrote:Wow, you're school is messed up.

No, my school was southern.

I live in Virginia, 25 minutes away from North Carolina. We're pretty southern as well, your school was just messed up.

Melissia wrote:It's not simple. School is more than merely a place where you learn booksmarts. It's also a place where one learns social mores. From the earliest years, schools need to set the right attitude in their various staff, whom will attempt to distill the same values onto their students.

As it is, in many schools these days harmful actions based off of homophobia are perfectly acceptable despite it supposedly being against the rules.

You presume much. Harassment and other violations are still..violations.

I'm in North Carolina, and we had the LGSA as well.

We didn't have many 'openly gay' students at my high school that I'm aware of, outside of a few lesbians(and let's face it--everybody loves lesbians--unless they're fat, and then it's just 'ewwww' ) and I don't remember too many people having bad things to say about homosexuality.

Melissia wrote:

halonachos wrote:My school had a 'Gay, Straight Alliance' club thing. Never went because I really didn't care about the worries of homosexuals in the modern era, for the most part lynching a homosexual is a social taboo compared to yesteryears.

Mine still had students beat up because they acted "gay" and the offending parties essentially got away with a slap on the wrist, while the "gay" students were punished. This was ten years ago, but that's still quite recent.

Thats your school's fault. Gay, straight, martian who gives a ? (and thats the problem). Battery is battery.


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Melissia wrote:

halonachos wrote:Wow, you're school is messed up.

No, my school was southern.

Mine was too and that wasn't tolerated. Everyone involved would have been expelled. But we're backwards that way...

Frazzled wrote:

Melissia wrote:

halonachos wrote:My school had a 'Gay, Straight Alliance' club thing. Never went because I really didn't care about the worries of homosexuals in the modern era, for the most part lynching a homosexual is a social taboo compared to yesteryears.

Mine still had students beat up because they acted "gay" and the offending parties essentially got away with a slap on the wrist, while the "gay" students were punished. This was ten years ago, but that's still quite recent.

Thats your school's fault. Gay, straight, martian who gives a ? (and thats the problem). Battery is battery.

So? Never stopped any school from ignoring the antics of its sports team because they really really like sports, or ignoring the antics of gay-bashers because they policy-makers themselves don' approve of homosexuality.

Certainly it hasn't stopped society at large from discriminating against homosexuals, why would it stop our schools from doing so?

Melissia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Melissia wrote:

halonachos wrote:My school had a 'Gay, Straight Alliance' club thing. Never went because I really didn't care about the worries of homosexuals in the modern era, for the most part lynching a homosexual is a social taboo compared to yesteryears.

Mine still had students beat up because they acted "gay" and the offending parties essentially got away with a slap on the wrist, while the "gay" students were punished. This was ten years ago, but that's still quite recent.

Thats your school's fault. Gay, straight, martian who gives a ? (and thats the problem). Battery is battery.

So? Never stopped any school from ignoring the antics of its sports team because they really really like sports, or ignoring the antics of gay-bashers because they policy-makers themselves don' approve of homosexuality.

Certainly it hasn't stopped society at large from discriminating against homosexuals, why would it stop our schools from doing so?

Again you're presupposing what happened at your school with the rest of the US. My school didn't tolerate that sort of thing. Of course neither did we. I'm not saying we're better just way more aggressive.

Having said that, if we take your statement at face value than anything you just recommended is also blindingly irrelevant isn't it, and we might as well again just focus on: 1) Thaisboxing; 2) math. The circle is complete...

Frazzled wrote:Again you're presupposing what happened at your school with the rest of the US.

I think it's worse than ya realize. There's plenty of stories such as this every year, they just don't get much press these days outside of the GBLT community.

Melissia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Again you're presupposing what happened at your school with the rest of the US.

I think it's worse than ya realize. There's plenty of stories such as this every year, they just don't get much press these days outside of the GBLT community.

Tragic but so what? People are assaulted all the time for a whole host of reasons or none at all.
Thats why we have prisons, lawyers, and helicopter parents.

Melissia wrote:So? Never stopped any school from ignoring the antics of its sports team because they really really like sports...

Are you sure you aren't getting your school mixed up with that Varsity Blues?

Was James Van Der Beek there?

Monster Rain wrote:

Melissia wrote:So? Never stopped any school from ignoring the antics of its sports team because they really really like sports...

Are you sure you aren't getting your school mixed up with that Varsity Blues?

Was James Van Der Beek there?

Boxy Brown, the Beekster is always there.