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...Thats what i liked about necrons i could think up cool scenarios and situations and have nobody say to me well thats not how they work, read the codex look at this section and this section, they totally disagree with you.

The Oldcrons were the opposite, it was pretty much impossible to come up for fluffy reasons for why a Necron army would do anything besides exterminate life and serve the C'tan.

I also enjoyed the feeling that the necrons wernt all shiney and new looking, they were old. Beyond ancient old with weapons so old and powerful nobody knew what the hell they were. I loved it when they were painted like rust.

Nothing in the new codex suggests all necrons are new and shiney looking. You can paint them however you want and rust is still a major motif. If anything their weaponry and appearance seems more ancient and eldritch now with all the wacky, science-breaking, reality-bending Cryptek gear. Also the Tomb Kings flair, as seen in the Lychguard and Overlord garb, makes them seem more ancient. Their dress harkens back to some long forgotten civilization. Egypt is a good civilization to ape aesthetically if you want to get across ancientness. Before they seemed more machine and artificial than anything else.

Imperium: Less dark overall. SM's are far more heroic/noble mostly.

Chaos: CSM are less God-worshiping fanatics and more brigands/raiders. Daemons are more vicious beasts rather then sadistic Lovecraftian entities, Heretics and Cultists are rarely delved into for them to be given any personality. Chaos has certainly become less dark.

Eldar: Actually I think they're a little darker then they used to be. They're more brutal, vicious, and genocidal then they used to be, with the peaceful Space Elves undertones overshadowed by this.

DE: Pretty much have stayed the same in GRIMDARK levels, though the 5th Ed Codex improved their overall fluff massively.

Orks: Are much darker then they used to be. Go and read Waaagh da Orks or Ere We Go for how utterly goofy and lighthearted the Orks used to be. While they still have comic undertones, their brutal/warmongering/anarchic edge has been emphasized far more.

Necrons: Definitely much, much lighter toned now. Ward gave them a noble/honorable undertones and threw away the Vampire Counts feel for the Tomb Kings Feel. Overall I think this was from Ward's inability to write evil, everything needs to be courageous for him.

Tau: While the 4th Ed Codex emphasized some darker practices absent in the 3rd (aka mind control and a more imperialist angle) they're still a shining light in the galaxy's grimdark.

Tyranids: Have gotten darker, mostly because the 5th Ed Codex emphasized that what we've encountered so far is just a small segment of the Tyranid race.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Now, why don't we have stuff like that anymore?
If that was made like today, it would be friggen bad ass.

My guess is because it would send over-protective mothers into a seizure.

Harriticus wrote:
Tau: While the 4th Ed Codex emphasized some darker practices absent in the 3rd (aka mind control and a more imperialist angle) they're still a shining light in the galaxy's grimdark.

I posit that the light on the outside, dark on the inside of the Tau is just as dark as the dark on the outside, light on the inside of a lot of imperials.

Harriticus wrote:Imperium: Less dark overall. SM's are far more heroic/noble mostly.

Chaos: CSM are less God-worshiping fanatics and more brigands/raiders. Daemons are more vicious beasts rather then sadistic Lovecraftian entities, Heretics and Cultists are rarely delved into for them to be given any personality. Chaos has certainly become less dark.

Eldar: Actually I think they're a little darker then they used to be. They're more brutal, vicious, and genocidal then they used to be, with the peaceful Space Elves undertones overshadowed by this.

DE: Pretty much have stayed the same in GRIMDARK levels, though the 5th Ed Codex improved their overall fluff massively.

Orks: Are much darker then they used to be. Go and read Waaagh da Orks or Ere We Go for how utterly goofy and lighthearted the Orks used to be. While they still have comic undertones, their brutal/warmongering/anarchic edge has been emphasized far more.

Necrons: Definitely much, much lighter toned now. Ward gave them a noble/honorable undertones and threw away the Vampire Counts feel for the Tomb Kings Feel. Overall I think this was from Ward's inability to write evil, everything needs to be courageous for him.

Tau: While the 4th Ed Codex emphasized some darker practices absent in the 3rd (aka mind control and a more imperialist angle) they're still a shining light in the galaxy's grimdark.

Tyranids: Have gotten darker, mostly because the 5th Ed Codex emphasized that what we've encountered so far is just a small segment of the Tyranid race.

Thats a very well thought-out analysis.

I mean even the gamesworkshop website sounds like its aimed at 12 year olds or somthing.

Trazyn description on the page:

If you're after a virtually invinsible (and slightly insane) character to lead your necrons to war then look no further than Trazyn.
With his ability to ressurect himself multiple times, he'll have your opponents gnashing their teeth in fustration.

And theannihilation barge

An annihilation barge is pretty cool (word young ens) but then so is a personal transport for your necron lord.

I expected the tag line, collect them all after.

The thing im most disapointed in is the range size, the have some new elite choices yet are all the same size, they should atleast be space marine terminator size models like for the immortals.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Now, why don't we have stuff like that anymore?
If that was made like today, it would be friggen bad ass.

Because we have a thread in the background section crying about how inappropriate it was for a Chaos marine to even think about flaying children alive in Battle of the Fang (note, no flaying of children took place in the book).

People today are the problem, not the setting.

DarknessEternal wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Now, why don't we have stuff like that anymore?
If that was made like today, it would be friggen bad ass.

Because we have a thread in the background section crying about how inappropriate it was for a Chaos marine to even think about flaying children alive in Battle of the Fang (note, no flaying of children took place in the book).

People today are the problem, not the setting.

Oh yeah, I actually read that one.
Very silly to whine about imo. Its a setting where billions die every day, and where humans are forced to fight the most nightmarish creatures possible. Of course there are going to be shocking imagery. That's the bloody point

DarknessEternal wrote:People today are the problem, not the setting.

+1 to this.

Chaos is evil. (being defined as the intentional, malicious cause of pain on others)
Flaying a child alive would be par for the course for many champions.

labmouse42 wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:People today are the problem, not the setting.

+1 to this.

Chaos is evil. (being defined as the intentional, malicious cause of pain on others)
Flaying a child alive would be par for the course for many champions.

No no no, flaying a child, torturing him with dark magic, and then breaking him into serving the dark gods/ consuming his soul/ feeding his soul to a demon...you get the point...THAT would be menial and banal task to any CSM grunt. Not important, just a quick diversion from boredom. That is the type of sociopathic insanity that I would expect from them. At the moment, CSM appear to be tamer than Dark Spesse elves. And that's not good.

As 'bad' as the newcron codex may be (or otherwise, I have yet to read it), I can't help but feel folks are looking back on the Oldcrons with just a hint of rose-tinted glasses.
I read the oldcron codex. Back to front. And you know what? It was boring. Utterly boring. Everyone I knew thought so at the time, and this is why we never saw any Cron armies being brought to the table. Sure, they might have been going for a "Lovecraftian" feel, but they failed. Lovecraft feels nothing like the Oldcron codex to read; where his stuff was dark, weird, and actually used direct description to highlight what we didn't know about his entities, GW settled for "we're not going to tell you all that much, ooooh, how spooky," and assumed it would do the job.

Now, some people will not agree with me there, and that's fine. Hell, I could be spouting nonsense like a fire hose, but that's just a risk I take when I post on the internet. However, in the rush to find fault with Ward's codexes, and give unfavourable comparisons to their predecessors, we may be overlooking the considerable flaws those older codexes actually had.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:As 'bad' as the newcron codex may be (or otherwise, I have yet to read it), I can't help but feel folks are looking back on the Oldcrons with just a hint of rose-tinted glasses.
I read the oldcron codex. Back to front. And you know what? It was boring. Utterly boring. Everyone I knew thought so at the time, and this is why we never saw any Cron armies being brought to the table. Sure, they might have been going for a "Lovecraftian" feel, but they failed. Lovecraft feels nothing like the Oldcron codex to read; where his stuff was dark, weird, and actually used direct description to highlight what we didn't know about his entities, GW settled for "we're not going to tell you all that much, ooooh, how spooky," and assumed it would do the job.

Now, some people will not agree with me there, and that's fine. Hell, I could be spouting nonsense like a fire hose, but that's just a risk I take when I post on the internet. However, in the rush to find fault with Ward's codexes, and give unfavourable comparisons to their predecessors, we may be overlooking the considerable flaws those older codexes actually had.

Actually, I found that story about the techpriest who went insane in the olddex to be pretty good. Of course, I did read it like 7 years ago. Xenology on the other hand, that was brilliant.
But yeah, I do agree that the old crons where a bit bland.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Sure, they might have been going for a "Lovecraftian" feel, but they failed. Lovecraft feels nothing like the Oldcron codex to read; where his stuff was dark, weird, and actually used direct description to highlight what we didn't know about his entities, GW settled for "we're not going to tell you all that much, ooooh, how spooky," and assumed it would do the job.

Uh, maybe you're thinking of a different author.

"It's so spooky that I can't describe it" is the basis of Lovecraft's work.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Sure, they might have been going for a "Lovecraftian" feel, but they failed. Lovecraft feels nothing like the Oldcron codex to read; where his stuff was dark, weird, and actually used direct description to highlight what we didn't know about his entities, GW settled for "we're not going to tell you all that much, ooooh, how spooky," and assumed it would do the job.

Uh, maybe you're thinking of a different author.

"It's so spooky that I can't describe it" is the basis of Lovecraft's work.

True, but the characters in his books did try to give some descriptions of what they saw. Of course, what they saw was so bizarre and alien that it just came off as weird and unsettling, which was the point
SEE : Dunwich Horror, Whately's brother.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Sure, they might have been going for a "Lovecraftian" feel, but they failed. Lovecraft feels nothing like the Oldcron codex to read; where his stuff was dark, weird, and actually used direct description to highlight what we didn't know about his entities, GW settled for "we're not going to tell you all that much, ooooh, how spooky," and assumed it would do the job.

Uh, maybe you're thinking of a different author.

"It's so spooky that I can't describe it" is the basis of Lovecraft's work.

Nope, definitely Lovecraft. The description he gives of the Fungi of Yuggoth, for example, the description of the Fishmen that appear in "The Shadow over Innsmouth," the descriptions of good ol' Cthulhu himself, and of course the description (yes, he describes it) of the Shoggoth in "At The Mountains of Madness."
Trust me, I've read them. I remember these things.
I think the confusion is occuring between the idea that Lovecraft gave scattered, disjointed descriptions, such as a terrified person might give, and the idea that he never described anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Xenology on the other hand, that was brilliant.

Actually, I agree. Xenology was fantastically written, and was much better at conveying some sort of Lovecraftian feel to the Crons than the codex ever was, and it even had a Necron Lord in it with a personality, albeit a rather cruel one.

Kaldor wrote:

tsz52 wrote:Instead it's more, 'All that old lore was BS, and we'll retcon (therefore destroy, rather than preserve) everything such that the older fluff, novels, computer games and other licenses, and armies that folks have lovingly built are now all false. Not the old 'many interpretations, none of it's true, it's all true' thing but flat out false.'

Like what?

Well, now I'm in the tricky position of wanting to answer a question asked in good faith, but if I answered it fully I'd be perceived as the most muck-raking, ****-stirring, dead-horse-flogging troll of all time.

I'd ask you to look back over all of the 'Oh no, not this again!' threads of controversy and vitriol in recent memory (the ones that tend to get locked), paying attention to such things as the: 'Eldar players/fans whining again'; 'Space Marine haters whining again'; 'Necron players/fans whining again'; 'Daemon Hunters players/fans whining again'; 'Witch Hunters* players/fans whining again'; 'SoB players/fans whining again'; 'Fans of the (non-Astartes) Imperial Institutions (like the Inquisition) whining again'; 'Chaos players/fans whining again'... threads.

There's a bit of a gestalt there that you can't have missed, and it can't all be dismissed as incorrect or whining. And those are just the ones that I've paid particular attention to, given my particular interests.

There were plenty of previous facts and stories (and army builds) now rendered both absolutely false and impossible; and old mysteries and hints now answered (that will take another ham-fisted retcon to remedy) in a way that contradicts the previous lore and vibe. Don't forget that this isn't just confined to the current 40k TT but spreads out to every other 40k based game (BFG has been properly mashed up by all these retcons), novel (Cain vs Oldcrons, and a big list of others) and license (something that GW should really be a bit less arrogant about, since it isn't the powerful PLC that it likes to strut about as, compared to some of these licensee corporations).

For the sake of harmony and tedious-repetition-reduction, I would urge you to take the above as a rough guide and answer your own question.

*As a single example of difference in approach between then and now:-

Then: In C:WH the SoB are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. Clutching your beautiful 2nd Ed C:SoB to your bosom you had every right and ability to say, "Not in my personal 40k they're not, bud, thanks!" and build an Ecclesiarchy army instead, or a pure SoB army, or have whatever as allies of an Imperial army. But you've received an extra option and none of the previous ones and facts had been removed or destroyed. There was no rug-pulling or leaving you stranded with a chosen and beloved army that you can no longer use, going, "WTF?!!!"

Now: GK are now the Chamber Militant for the whole Inquisition: All previous BL coffee table books, novels, army builds, games of Inquisitor that you may have played, and Codices etc that say anything otherwise are now false! It destroys more than it adds. Bad for the customers, bad for GW's most precious asset (its IP).

It's like wanting to add a rose to your garden. The old way (once the setting had matured and stabilised around 3rd Ed) involved tip-toeing with finesse until you found a suitable spot then plant the rose with care to amplify the beauty of the garden as a whole; the new way is to get an oafish imbecile to dig up and trample everything already existing and slap the gaudy new flower in the ground... but the idiot grabbed a briefly-flowering weed to plant rather than the rose.

Both self-defeating and unsustainable. And very avoidable, since it's entirely possible for a skilled writer who cares to add barrel-loads of Heroic Awesome! without destroying anything else.