"Playing For Fun"

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**Poppabear**

People who play to WAAC have some sort of issue. If you want to win, go play MW3 or BF3, while we sit here and play a hobby that is made for fun.. Quote (I think this is from jervis) "GW games arn't made to play competitivly, their made to have fun with your friends. (Something around the lines of that at least)

**Slipstream**

I'd like to ask the poster if he has considered how many people he's probably put off playing 40k? Its a game for crying out loud; you are meant to have fun. Now you may claim you are having fun but you are going to have a lot of 'one time' opponents who if you asked them would tell you the opposite.
If you are playing in tournaments fine, optimize your force. But if you are playing pickup games or whatever do you really need to win at all costs?
I've come up against powergamers and you know what? I only make the mistake of playing them once then I avoid them like the plague.

**Gorskar.da.Lost**

Also, GK aren't that broken. Just ask the Ladz.
Actually, don't do that as you wouldn't get an answer, them being plastic and all, but you get my point.
Basically, the point I'd make has already been made; fun and memorable games (the memorable part is most important

) come from a real challenge, not simply winning knowing full well that winning was the expected result.
When it comes down to it, you have a lot more laughs and great memories from a game that was difficult for you, as it really gets you on your toes (tactically speaking)

**darkcloud92**

Id say it ruins it everyone else. Its one thing to play competitive for tournaments and to build and optimized list for that. But all the time, is their really a need to focus only on winning? No there isn't, that isn't what 40k is about. Their is no pro league, or pro tour, and tournaments are only as competitive as people make them. But you can't even call 40k competitive b/c half the armies don't get updated for years and have an unfair disadvantage.
But hey if stomping on underpowered armies made by people who want to have fun makes you feel good, go for it.

**zeekill**

Well, I think this has gone on far enough. I'd like to thank everyone who posted, those that were aggressive, those that were casual, and those that REALLY wanted me to start playing Tau.

Anyway this gave me a good amount to think about. Firstly I think I'll start by practicing for a GT.

**Trondheim**

You know, its when I have to play against players such as you I wonder why I bother with this game. WAAC is MOT amusing to play against, Heck I will gladly build fluffy/fun lists before I ever consider a WAAC list. And I have a tip for you, find a new group of players to play with if you are higly skilled

**Cave_Dweller**

RicBlasko wrote:

When you walk into a store and sit down to play, are you getting paid for winning? If some 12 year old who jsut started playing sits across from you, and you crush him or her so bad they never play again, does that help the hobby/game down the road? Do you get great joy in taking the fun from someone who just wanted to kill an hour or two?
You ask why people just play for fun...well I work all week, I want to take a break, have a drink and kill time. Tomorrow I am having a BBQ, couple of cases of beer, and a couple other gamers over to play. The Ork player's list will be random, and his weirdboy will cause all sorts of laughs, the SW player is new, and he will enjoy his time without feeling like he will never get a chance to win because we crushed him, and I will play Chaos, and do something silly like take mostly bikes, just to be the Anti White Scars, because no one will see it coming until pull the models out (which I am glueing right now)
If we played all out, trying to win no matter what, no being friendly, and wanting to make someone look like a joke by crushing them...then no one has fun, the beer and brawts are wasted, and no one will want to sit around and have a good time away from the wives and such.
I do not get paid to win, I wont get cut if I lose to many times, and I have a stock pile of minis that will gather dust if I dont pull them out for laughs. Really, if this was all about win win win, I would not have a SoB in school girl skirt.
It's a game, games are to be fun. I don't play Munchkin looking to win, and I dont play 40K looking to win. I want to have fun, laugh, and have everyone with me enjoy their time. It's why I have a couple of Vs decks, and YuGiOh decks. One for tournies, and others for laughs or just for fluff. There is a time to win, a time to teach new players, a time to play test odd things. If winning is all that matters, then you are putting to much thought into this., it's just a game. It's like going into a game of Vampie the Requiem and looking to win (cause there is no winner or loser) And at the end of the game, you want the person to come back and play again, you want to share stories of bad rolls, and a beer, and go to GenCon and find the girls in the 40K Cosplay. And if someone so wants to prove they are better than me at 40K, we can always try Battlefleet Gothic (40K with ships) or we can play Necromonda or Blood Bowl or something.
This is why i miss the old core book with like 20 different types of missions, where you never knew if your army would be a good fit for it or not.

Wish I had more friends like you then. Mine don't drink, so that's never an option and they have small, very limited armies.

The people at my FLGS are playing for practice in tourneys at all times. There really aren't any fluffy lists because those players all got sick and tired of losing constantly, so they just show up to say hi every now and then but no longer play (mainly fluffy codex marines).

I'm about to join then because I sure can't figure out the secret of winning a game of 40k with my marines. I agree the games primary purpose should be fun but losing all the time due to highly powerful lists is simply not fun.

**Milisim**

By zeekill playing Tau... he can compete at the highest levesl of the codex and go for that win while his opponents gets in his dosage of fun.... By doing this..... Well....

It's for the greater good!

His and his opponents.

**zeekill**

Cave_Dweller wrote:
Wish I had more friends like you then. Mine don't drink, so that's never an option and they have small, very limited armies.

The people at my FLGS are playing for practice in tourneys at all times. There really aren't any fluffy lists because those players all got sick and tired of losing constantly, so they just show up to say hi every now and then but no longer play (mainly fluffy codex marines).

I'm about to join then because I sure can't figure out the secret of winning a game of 40k with my marines. I agree the games primary purpose should be fun but losing all the time due to highly powerful lists is simply not fun.

If the frustrations come from not being able to win, instead try building competitive lists and playing in the same "league" as them.

**darkcloud92**

Cave_Dweller wrote:
RicBlasko wrote:

When you walk into a store and sit down to play, are you getting paid for winning? If some 12 year old who jsut started playing sits across from you, and you crush him or her so bad they never play again, does that help the hobby/game down the road? Do you get great joy in taking the fun from someone who just wanted to kill an hour or two?
You ask why people just play for fun...well I work all week, I want to take a break, have a drink and kill time. Tomorrow I am having a BBQ, couple of cases of beer, and a couple other gamers over to play. The Ork player's list will be random, and his weirdboy will cause all sorts of laughs, the SW player is new, and he will enjoy his time without feeling like he will never get a chance to win because we crushed him, and I will play Chaos, and do something silly like take mostly bikes, just to be the Anti White Scars, because no one will see it coming until pull the models out (which I am glueing right now)
If we played all out, trying to win no matter what, no being friendly, and wanting to make someone look like a joke by crushing them...then no one has fun, the beer and brawts are wasted, and no one will want to sit around and have a good time away from the wives and such.
I do not get paid to win, I wont get cut if I lose to many times, and I have a stock pile of minis that will gather dust if I dont pull them out for laughs. Really, if this was all about win win win, I would not have a SoB in school girl skirt.
It's a game, games are to be fun. I don't play Munchkin looking to win, and I dont play 40K looking to win. I want to have fun, laugh, and have everyone with me enjoy their time. It's why I have a couple of Vs decks, and YuGiOh decks. One for tournies, and others for laughs or just for fluff. There is a time to win, a time to teach new players, a time to play test odd things. If winning is all that matters, then you are putting to much thought into this., it's just a game. It's like going into a game of Vampie the Requiem and looking to win (cause there is no winner or loser) And at the end of the game, you want the person to come back and play again, you want to share stories of bad rolls, and a beer, and go to GenCon and find the girls in the 40K Cosplay. And if someone so wants to prove they are better than me at 40K, we can always try Battlefleet Gothic (40K with ships) or we can play Necromonda or Blood Bowl or something.
This is why i miss the old core book with like 20 different types of missions, where you never knew if your army would be a good fit for it or not.

Wish I had more friends like you then. Mine don't drink, so that's never an option and they have small, very limited armies.

The people at my FLGS are playing for practice in tourneys at all times. There really aren't any fluffy lists because those players all got sick and tired of losing constantly, so they just show up to say hi every now and then but no longer play (mainly fluffy codex marines).

I'm about to join then because I sure can't figure out the secret of winning a game of 40k with my marines. I agree the games primary purpose should be fun but losing all the time due to highly powerful lists is simply not fun.

Oh man that sounds like so much fun lol

**Cave_Dweller**

zeekill wrote:
Cave_Dweller wrote:
Wish I had more friends like you then. Mine don't drink, so that's never an option and they have small, very limited armies.

The people at my FLGS are playing for practice in tourneys at all times. There really aren't any fluffy lists because those players all got sick and tired of losing constantly, so they just show up to say hi every now and then but no longer play (mainly fluffy codex marines).

I'm about to join then because I sure can't figure out the secret of winning a game of 40k with my marines. I agree the games primary purpose should be fun but losing all the time due to highly powerful lists is simply not fun.

If the frustrations come from not being able to win, instead try building competitive lists and playing in the same "league" as them.

The problem is I don't even know what's "competitive" for vanilla marines. I just buy the models I think look cool and would be fun to paint.

**zeekill**

Cave_Dweller wrote:
The problem is I don't even know what's "competitive" for vanilla marines. I just buy the models I think look cool and would be fun to paint.

You're on Dakka are you not? Just ask.

The most popular I would have to say is Vulcan + TH/SS Termies in a LRR, 2 Vindicators, 2-3 Squads of Tac Marines with Flamer/Multimelta in Rhinoes and some dreadnoughts, Speeder Typhoons, or Attack bikes with MM to supplement.
A pretty basic semi-competitive list in today's meta that will at the very least allow you to hold your own against the other players (with some practice, positioning is very important for this list so your Vindies dont get picked off by flank shots.)

If you're going for looks, just because you run Vulcan does not mean your army HAS to be Salamanders. You can name him anything else for your chapter of choice and just use Vulcan's rules.
Best of Luck!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Milisim wrote:By zeekill playing Tau... he can compete at the highest levesl of the codex and go for that win while his opponents gets in his dosage of fun.... By doing this..... Well...

I really do admire your persistence.

**riplikash**

The funny thing about most WAAC players is, despite what they claim, the actually aren't interested in a challenging competitive game, and they aren't interested in playing 'to the best of their abilities' as they often claim. They are in fact perfectly happy if the game is over before it starts. They care about the winning, not playing, and attempt to cover up this behavior by by attempting to hide to behind claims of desiring a competitive game.

Handicaps, fluffy lists, and other methods of "just for fun" game types don't at all preclude a challenging and rewarding gameplay experience. Quite the opposite in fact. They provide new, interesting and challenging scenarios. And for advanced players often handicapped, fluffy games are often the only way they can find a good challenge. It provides a similarly good experience for new players. A game you can never win isn't challenging, its an exercise in futility. A fluffy, properly handicapped game is challenging and fun for both sides.

WAAC players get such a bad reputation because this immature obsession with winning and lack of concern for their opponent shows through. Nobody complains about good players viciously going all out in a fluffy or handicapped list. They only complain about players who refuse to put themselves at a disadvantage for any reason, because they hate the prospect of losing.

This isn't to say there is no room for list optimizing. Again, nobody minds a list optimizer who shows a willingness to use less than optimal lists when appropriate, and mainly goes out against others suitably prepared. But when you refuse to put yourself at a disadvantage for any reason, no matter the opponent, no matter the scenario, you rightfully get looked down upon for being immaturely obsessed with winning rather than actually wanting a challenging match.

**kb305**

yes DE are autolose against 6 psyfleman and psycannon spam, you dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

**Ascalam**

Never lost against GK yet with my DE, so i don't know what youi're smoking to make that an autolose...

A rough fight, yes, but not an autolose

You just have to play a tad cleverer than 'charge!!! '

P.S.

Stormboyz iz rokkit scientizts tooz

**kb305**

Ascalam wrote:Never lost against GK yet with my DE, so i don't know what youi're smoking to make that an autolose...

A rough fight, yes, but not an autolose You just have to play a tad cleverer than 'charge!!! '

P.S.

Stormboyz iz rokkit scientizts tooz

all the GK you played had 6 psyfleman?

without the dreads DE can beat them

**Actinium**

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Most 'fluffy' armies are still reasonably competent or optimized within their thematic constraints, you really need to go overboard with like a devastator squad full of lascannons that runs around assaulting because 'THAT'S HOW I WROTE IT IN MY FANFICTION!' before you get into the sub 30% win rate lists. It's a dice game, all the razorbacks and long fangs in the world won't guarantee a 'wrecked' against that dude what runs 3 doomsday arks because they look cool.
Getting happy about winning is an intrinsic part of the game. What you need to look out for in yourself and others is getting upset about losing, wither that's from your super tourney list getting tabled to bad dice and leaving in a huff or getting mad that your opponent isn't running something as goofy as your own maximum grot list or whatever.

**Ascalam**

kb305 wrote:
Ascalam wrote:Never lost against GK yet with my DE, so i don't know what youi're smoking to make that an autolose...

A rough fight, yes, but not an autolose You just have to play a tad cleverer than 'charge!!! '

P.S.

Stormboyz iz rokkit scientizts tooz

all the GK you played had 6 psyfleman?

without the dreads DE can beat them

Not all, but it is a depressingly common build. Maybe 2/3.

You can beat them including the dreads too, but it's a rougher fight by far, when you're flying tinfoil with pretentions of durability

**Cain**

I woul have to agree on both ideas here I do like to win my games but I like the fluff and the story of the exact game I am playing.

For intrest I play an all deep strike army have played the same army generally for about 2 years but it never gets old because I love the fluff it is completley what BT should be and thats what I enjoy to play. When I see BT player running all shooty lists I cringe bc thats not what a templar would do, but at the same time I cringe when all I see is 6 20 man crusader squads (even though its kinda fluffy) walking across the board getting plasted because it dosent make sence to me either to just make a list you are going to lose with.

**AegisGrimm**

Does anyone around here still face Eldar armies with a ton of Wraithlords? I'm an oldie, and I remember back when that was the big bad thing to be cheesy with, rather than all this crazy meta, army synergy, GK, naming army builds like it's a game of Magic.... stuff.

**Ascalam**

I love to see armies like that, but they're very rare these days

DE go through them like a hot chainsaw through a tub of lard with all the poison effects

Everyone has a ton of high strength low AP funnery and 'remove from play, no save' BS...

They are out of style these days, but a friend and I still do a retro night once in a while, each picking an army style that was hot once upon a time...

I'm painting up a bunch of ancient metal and plastic warbikers to celebrate 40K's 25th, and taking them along with some buggies to kick it like it's 1992 (or so...) for the next one..

**Frankenberry**

Power gamers aren't bad by themselves. It's when that power gaming becomes WAAC is when it takes a decidedly large turn for the douchebag level.

Everyone likes to have fun, whether it's power gaming or playing poorly put together lists for hilarity sake. It all depends on your attitude during the game I suppose.

**balsak_da_mighty**

Poppabear wrote:People who play to WAAC have some sort of issue. If you want to win, go play MW3 or BF3, while we sit here and play a hobby that is made for fun.. Quote (I think this is from jervis) "GW games arn't made to play competitivly, their made to have fun with your friends. (Something around the lines of that at least)

Which is why they need to stop the Tournements. Its a game that is not designed for tourney play. Yet they make the Ard Boys tourney a WAAC type of tourney. I especially think Ard Boys ruined the tourney seen even more. Prizes to be had bring out the WAAC type players IMHO. The old Rogue Trader it might have been a trophy, but it was more a kind bragging rights. You had painting scores, List comp. scores, you even had Best General scores. That is far from the way it is now. Nothing like it used to be.

**IcedAnimals**

I'm surprised i haven't seen anyone mention this. But the reason I don't often play "WAAC" lists (I do during tournaments) is because I want to make sure both players have fun.

You can see it on peoples faces or hear it in their voice when they are upset. And playing against an upset person is NOT fun. I don't even mean they are getting red in the face and yelling at you. But when you have someone and on turn three and they are seriously considering picking up their models and leaving you feel bad for them.

I don't enjoy smashing some guys list he spent 500$ and countless hours on and is taking it out for a test spin. I enjoy having a close game and being able to talk to my opponent after about different aspects of the game.

But I definitely enjoy a game where even if I win holding 4 bases to 0, both players had a good time and we can talk about that amazing last stand in those ruins, or that fleet unit that made its charge because it rolled a 6 for its run. Or that amazing roll made by a battle sister that killed a daemon prince in melee.

**Ascalam**

It's been said, but you're quite right

A game requires both people to be havong a good time. If they're not, it's not a game but a chore for the one not enjoying themselves, and a vigorous but unfulfilling ego-jerking for the one who is

**Kaime**

AegisGrimm wrote:Does anyone around here still face Eldar armies with a ton of Wraithlords? I'm an oldie, and I remember back when that was the big bad thing to be cheesy with, rather than all this crazy meta, army synergy, GK, naming army builds like it's a game of Magic.... stuff.

I played a list with Yriel, Wraithseer (forgeworld psyker wraithlord), a 10 wraithguard troops choice and 3 regular wraithlords. Its a pretty cool list to look at, and I did beat my friends blood angel list with it.

I want to try fielding all of my eldar monsters at once someday, its a shame the avatar is unique (i have two of the new ones and the old one with spear and cape).

OT: I never play optimized lists, I prefer when games are ties (or a really close win), since it gives more excitement and tension in the end.

**Chapo_X**

Quite often I will run a themed army list just for the hell of it to see what happens. I'm not just talking about an all Tzeentch list etc. I'm talking try and squeeze as many flamers as possible into a list, or go all mech with as many transports as possible, and your ONLY allowed to tank shock until you get popped

**zeekill**

Chapo_X wrote:Quite often I will run a themed army list just for the hell of it to see what happens. I'm not just talking about an all Tzeentch list etc. I'm talking try and squeeze as many flamers as possible into a list, or go all mech with as many transports as possible, and your ONLY allowed to tank shock until you get popped

Well this is something different. You are just going for a silly, completely random game, in which no one cares about win/lose. Its more like watching a comedy film in miniature form than playing a game

**vim_the_good**

unpainted, uber competitive army = boring

painted, uber competitive army = fun

painted, fluffy, I collect the minies I like, paint/convert them make an army from them = great fun

**Hyd**

Poppabear wrote:If you want to win, go play MW3 or BF3, while we sit here and play a hobby that is made for fun.. Quote (I think this is from jervis) "GW games arn't made to play competitivly, their made to have fun with your friends. (Something around the lines of that at least)

Yeah, except no. I'm going to be rude if you want to tell me how I'm supposed to play or what way I'm supposed to have fun. Fun is a subjective notion. Those who would enforce one particular notion of fun unto others deserve all sorts of mean adjectives. That goes both ways.
If there are fething rock-paper-scissors tournaments, there can be 40K tournaments.