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 easysauce wrote:
If you cant figure out you are pregnant before 20 weeks, that is completely inexcusable/irresponsible.

My mother didn't know she was pregnant with my sister until her water broke. She was a heavier woman in her younger days, and as such her cycle was irregular/nonexistent. She participated in a weight loss contest with several of the ladies she worked with. The goal was who lost the most (in a healthy manner) and the prize was like 500 bucks (a lot for 1986). So my mom lost the weight, won the contest, and things started to function again as she got back into her old ways (and started to put some of that weight back on). Well what my mom didn't realize is that the weight was not the normal weight she had, but the weight of pregnancy. Had no clue she was pregnant until her water broke.

Edit: Granted she would not have gotten an abortion had she known, as my parents were trying to have kids at that time.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
What do you think abortion is? Its killing babies/fetuses/blobs of cells.

Its legal. People who are supporting it are supporting that. Live up to it.

So just not going to answer that are you then.

According to your statements you believe that abortion is the delivery of an alive and viable third trimester fetus and then severing the spinal cord with scissors, a procedure that is specifically banned by federal law.

How is it not? Whats the difference? Killing is killing. Accept it and move on.

Except it isn't, as we make differentiations on what is ok to kill and not ok to kill all the time. Only a few small groups, such as Jainists make a hard line approach to life. In this case the question of whether a zygote should be considered the same as a full on human is the question, and one there is no easy answer to. If there were we still wouldn't be having this discussion.

The Catholic Church is not small. Most evangelists in the US-same to same. Mormon Church as well.
Again, lets call it what it is. I'm ok with that and I am also ok with it being legal until viability. I don't think the average person who wants to keep it legal thinks its happy fun time or different or are personally for it. They just don't want the government to intrude.

Thats not hardcore. Planned Parenthood equivocating on 3rd trimester and "post birth" abortion are.

 Frazzled wrote:
The Catholic Church is not small.

And yet there are still pro-choice Catholics. And, oddly, the Catholic Church isn't a scientific body either so there opinion on science doesn't matter much to the veracity of of scientific studies.

 Frazzled wrote:
Most evangelists in the US-same to same. Mormon Church as well.

As above, unless Texas is now suddenly the Theocratic Principality of Texas the continued use of religion to try and turn a complex question into a simple answer isn't all that compelling. It also doesn't help that lots of people in those groups vote against welfare and are pro-Death Penalty. Just saying 'well religion' doesn't solve anything.

Our Reps didn't place their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible, they put their hand on the Bible ande swore to uphold the Constitution. Or in Texas's case uphold the beer napkin Sam Huston made notes on.

To be clear I am not saying that we should completely ignore religion or listen to what people of faith have to say or think, but neither can we, as a society, be held hostage to it either.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
The Catholic Church is not small.

And yet there are still pro-choice Catholics. And, oddly, the Catholic Church isn't a scientific body either so there opinion on science doesn't matter much to the veracity of of scientific studies.

 Frazzled wrote:
Most evangelists in the US-same to same. Mormon Church as well.

As above, unless Texas is now suddenly the Theocratic Principality of Texas the continued use of religion to try and turn a complex question into a simple answer isn't all that compelling. It also doesn't help that lots of people in those groups vote against welfare and are pro-Death Penalty. Just saying 'well religion' doesn't solve anything.

Our Reps didn't place their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible, they put their hand on the Bible ande swore to uphold the Constitution. Or in Texas's case uphold the beer napkin Sam Huston made notes on.

To be clear I am not saying that we should completely ignore religion or listen to what people of faith have to say or think, but neither can we, as a society, be held hostage to it either.

You said only a few small groups like the Jainists. The Catholic Church is the largest denomination of the Christian Faith. Its anything but a small group.

 Frazzled wrote:
You said only a few small groups like the Jainists. The Catholic Church is the largest denomination of the Christian Faith. Its anything but a small group.

I don't know why you keep saying that, no one has said that Catholicism is a small group, but I also know they are not as numerous in the US as protestants (57% non-Catholic vs 24% Catholic), and since we are talking about the US and not global religious numbers I'm not sure why it keeps coming up. Or...are you saying the Texas government takes orders from the Bishop of Rome?!

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You said only a few small groups like the Jainists. The Catholic Church is the largest denomination of the Christian Faith. Its anything but a small group.

I don't know why you keep saying that, no one has said that Catholicism is a small group, but I also know they are not as numerous in the US as protestants, and since we are talking about the US and not global religious numbers I'm not sure why it keeps coming up. Or...are you saying the Texas government takes orders from the Bishop of Rome?!

I keep saying that because you said its only small groups. Please find me a large Christian group in the US that supports abortion. I'm not qualified to comment on Islam, but judging from its other stances I'd bet good many its not supportive either.

 Frazzled wrote:
I keep saying that because you said its only small groups.

You misunderstood, even the Catholic Church does not take is not as extreme in its view on life as the hard line minorites, like Jainists. These are groups that won't eat fruit that doesn't fall from a tree, will not kill insects, will avoid walking on grass, ect ect. The Catholic Church has been involved in wars and allows meat eating, and harvesting plants, so they are still pretty far from the outliers in that they still make differentiations on what is and isn't ok to kill.

 Ahtman wrote:
I don't know why you keep saying that,

 Ahtman wrote:
Only a few small groups, such as Jainists make a hard line approach to life.

That's why he keeps saying it. You said that only a few small groups, such as Jainists, make a hard line approach to life. Frazzled is pointing out that the Catholic Church makes a hard line approach to life and is not a small group.

I don't know why it's all that relevant, but there you go.

 Seaward wrote:
Catholic Church makes a hard line approach to life

Not in comparison to Jainists they don't. I think we are conflating hard line on life with a hard line on abortion, as it were. I was referring to hard line as making no distinction between life forms on the planet, which the Catholic Church most certainly does, whereas the Jainists do not. I realize now I worded it a bit confusingly, and apologize for the confusion.

OK gotcha. There are some interesting Catholic orders of monks like that.

 Ahtman wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Texas Abortion Opponents To Cheer Selves Up With Execution

What is the relevance of this?

You really don't understand how an article (satire or otherwise) about Texas attitudes about abortion are relevant in a thread about Texas abortion legal shenanigans?

So... there's no difference between a murderer sentenced to die than a chick wanting to abort. Gotcha.

 whembly wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Texas Abortion Opponents To Cheer Selves Up With Execution

What is the relevance of this?

You really don't understand how an article (satire or otherwise) about Texas attitudes about abortion are relevant in a thread about Texas abortion legal shenanigans?

So... there's no difference between a murderer sentenced to die than a chick wanting to abort. Gotcha.

The murderer sentenced to die is a fully functional and sentient human being, while the "chick" is just getting rid of some unwanted cells in her own body?

The murderer's just a bunch of unwanted cells...

 Frazzled wrote:
The murderer's just a bunch of unwanted cells...

Completely agree with you there as well.

It always amuses me how, despite speaking to polar opposite audiences, having polar opposite politicians on their side, and generally being on polar opposite ends of the spectrum, the anti-abortion and anti-gun movements run essentially the exact same playbook.

 Seaward wrote:
It always amuses me how, despite speaking to polar opposite audiences, having polar opposite politicians on their side, and generally being on polar opposite ends of the spectrum, the anti-abortion and anti-gun movements run essentially the exact same playbook.

Ironic...eh?

Well, those "unwanted cells" to one person is a "human being" to another. No matter how "right" one side believes themselves to be, they need to realize neither side is going to back down at this point.

Disclaimer: I'm only against late term abortion or "frivolous" ones (the woman has it just because she doesn't want kids). Everything else that I know about I've been ok with, as well as abortions performed for medical reasons. I just don't think that a fetus should get "removed" because you refused to wear protection when you were out partying.

But ultimately my opinion is irrelevant here. I'm not a woman and I never will be, so I don't see it being fair for me to have a say in the matter. Its like having someone who knows nothing about internet make laws that censor it, or someone who knows nothing about cars trying to force a limit to engine sizes. Ultimately its none of my damn business.

Seaward wrote:It always amuses me how, despite speaking to polar opposite audiences, having polar opposite politicians on their side, and generally being on polar opposite ends of the spectrum, the anti-abortion and anti-gun movements run essentially the exact same playbook.

Agreed

 Seaward wrote:
It always amuses me how, despite speaking to polar opposite audiences, having polar opposite politicians on their side, and generally being on polar opposite ends of the spectrum, the anti-abortion and anti-gun movements run essentially the exact same playbook.

Yep, and I can't stand either of them.

 Seaward wrote:
It always amuses me how, despite speaking to polar opposite audiences, having polar opposite politicians on their side, and generally being on polar opposite ends of the spectrum, the anti-abortion and anti-gun movements run essentially the exact same playbook.

Never really thought about it. You do really have something there.

Yes I know. Its best you not come here. We're just a bunch of neaderthals with our space exploration and deep sea exploration.

Right, because I mentioned technology. Butthurt much? *rolls eyes*

Nope, because we have the tech. You have...Tim Horton's. Hey did you know Tim Horton's is owned by evil Americans?

Yet again, insinuating I generalized, this time about ALL Americans. By the way, you use some of our tech in your precious space program. You guys are also not the only ones on this planet with space-faring technology. Stop being so arrogant.

Just stop now.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Yet again, insinuating I generalized, this time about ALL Americans. By the way, you use some of our tech in your precious space program.

Just stop now.

Just relax - I think the Texas heat and extreme old age get to Frazz sometimes

I think using Kermit Gosnell as an example of what's wrong with abortion isn't any different than using Jeffrey Dahmer as an example of what's wrong with the US Army.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Yet again, insinuating I generalized, this time about ALL Americans. By the way, you use some of our tech in your precious space program. You guys are also not the only ones on this planet with space-faring technology. Stop being so arrogant.

Just stop now.

No you said Texas. I'm Texan.
You're right, we're not the only guys, but we're more than you are

Everyone who's country has had a man on the moon raise you hand...

This turned into TX/Frazz versus Everyone.....had quite a few good chuckles lol

 Ouze wrote:
I think using Kermit Gosnell as an example of what's wrong with abortion isn't any different than using Jeffrey Dahmer as an example of what's wrong with the US Army.

Gosnell performed abortions.
Dahmer ate people.

Not getting the relationship.

 Frazzled wrote:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Wow. Personally I'm pro-choice, so this just hurts my perception of this state even more. This state is quite archaic with a lot of its policies and philosophies, isn't it?

Yes I know. Its best you not come here. We're just a bunch of neaderthals with our space exploration and deep sea exploration.

Well, he does have a point. Being pro-gun and pro-life are both characteristics of conservatives (or perceived characteristics up here). Being conservative is just another way of saying that you prefered how things were made when your parents were around.

In your case, Frazzled, that's pretty much in the neanderthal ballpark.

Edit: text removed because: Tacos.

 Frazzled wrote:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Yet again, insinuating I generalized, this time about ALL Americans. By the way, you use some of our tech in your precious space program. You guys are also not the only ones on this planet with space-faring technology. Stop being so arrogant.

Just stop now.

No you said Texas. I'm Texan.
You're right, we're not the only guys, but we're more than you are

Everyone who's country has had a man on the moon raise you hand...

Oh pleeeease. More than we are? Why are you bashing ALL of Canada as a response to me being upset with a single state? You're just mad and not thinking clearly. See I can do that too:

Everyone who belongs to a state that murders people legally, put your hand up.

Everyone who belongs to a state that thinks they can control free-will put their hand up.

Everyone who belongs to a state that is severely obese and on the verge of tipping the planet with its weight alone, put your hand up.

Everyone who belongs to a state that is known to be deeply racist still, put your hand up.

You'd be raising your hand to all of those. Pretty moronic, isn't it?