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 FlingitNow wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I advocate the ability to add Imhotek and Trazyn via repairing.

To any squad or just ones that contained them before? Then why not add Ghost arks to the unit? Or Riptides? Or Reaver Titans?

Any squad, don't pay points for expensive HQs, just add them via Ghost Arks. Unfortunately Riptides and Reaver titans aren't Necron independent characters.

Why would they need to be Necron ICs?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why would they need to be Necron ICs?

To join the unit they're being added to, Warriors, Royal Court members and Necron ICs are the only things that can be in a Warrior unit.

Why only those things? Warriors can't join a unit mid game nor can RC members. If you're restricting based on what can be joined to a Warrior unit then you can ONLY add ICs. No warriors or RCs added just Overlords, Destroyer Lords and special characters...

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why only those things? Warriors can't join a unit mid game nor can RC members. If you're restricting based on what can be joined to a Warrior unit then you can ONLY add ICs. No warriors or RCs added just Overlords, Destroyer Lords and special characters...

Reanimation Protocols, Ghost Ark.

Cant we just use the official tournament FAQ for this, where it says you can revive royal court members?


http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/up/INATFAQv5.1.1.pdf

page 71

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Reanimation Protocols, Ghost Ark.

That is the topic of the thread, yes.

There's nothing new being added at this point, though. I would strongly recommend that you discuss how your Ghost Ark will work before any games with new opponents, until GW gets around to writing rules for them that aren't nonsense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 M0ff3l wrote:
Cant we just use the official tournament FAQ for this, where it says you can revive royal court members?

Which 'official tournament FAQ'...?

And why would it apply to anything other than that tournament?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/up/INATFAQv5.1.1.pdf

page 71, i forgot to link it in my original post..

and we should use it other than tournaments, because if it gets ruled like this in tournaments why shouldnt it in regular play?

It isnt an official tournament FAQ, that is a contradiction in terms

It is official for THAT tournament only

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Why only those things? Warriors can't join a unit mid game nor can RC members. If you're restricting based on what can be joined to a Warrior unit then you can ONLY add ICs. No warriors or RCs added just Overlords, Destroyer Lords and special characters...

Reanimation Protocols, Ghost Ark.

RP doesn't add models. Ghost Ark does add models but doesn't restrict it to warriors or RC members. Not sure what you're saying here.

Ok, for those too dense, I am joking, I do not think the Ghost Ark should repair anything apart from Warriors and was using the example of adding expensive HQs to mock the idea of adding anything apart from Warriors.

The INAT is not an 'official' tournament FAQ. It is the work of a committee of gamers, and is valid only for those events that choose to use it. Unless I've missed an announcement, it also hasn't been updated for 6th edition.

There is of course nothing stopping you from using it in friendly play if your opponent agrees, but it is not any sort of 'official' answer to a rules dispute.









Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Ok, for those too dense, I am joking, I do not think the Ghost Ark should repair anything apart from Warriors and was using the example of adding expensive HQs to mock the idea of adding anything apart from Warriors.

Then you were a few pages too late, since the thread has already covered that. Including pointing out that there is nothing technically restricting it to Necron models.

 M0ff3l wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/up/INATFAQv5.1.1.pdf

page 71, i forgot to link it in my original post..

and we should use it other than tournaments, because if it gets ruled like this in tournaments why shouldnt it in regular play?

Many Tournaments ban Special Characters, limit the number of flyers or put other restrictions on force selections does this mean we should use these rules too? The Tournament FaQ is exactly that a FAQ made up by the organiser(s) of that tournament. It is no more official than me creating my own FAQ where my army is all T10 with 2+ invun with infinite rerolls that I can use to reroll a reroll.

Doubt you'd advocate using that FAQ...

Agreed. Where does it end?

The side that says "any model" has taken a simple thing and blown it way out of context. Plain and simple.

Don't you necron players (who want this) have enough stuff to win? You can't do it with tons of flyers, wraiths all over and ridiculous cryptek abilities? You need to try including models not bought with the original squad to respawn? Make better placement choices if you're losing your models that easily.

There are also look out sir! rolls to make, so, lots of other ways to not lose them in the first place....

-CotW

Common sense say it would never be IC. It would explain such an important concept in the rules if that was the case, like how many wounds they return with after RP/EL it wound also allied IC being excluded as they can't simply be bolted back together, with so many of these rules discussions just use common sense. The rules say squad members, the rules don't explain all the in and outs needed if IC where involved so the obviously arnt included, just the warriors and the court members.
Again common sense say you wouldn't get your one use weapons back, again that would have been in the rules if it happend... People need to stop grabbing for unrealistic powerplays and play the game fair for the fun of everyone involved.

The rules say squad members

No they don't they say models.

 The Cry of the Wind wrote:
The side that says "any model" has taken a simple thing and blown it way out of context. Plain and simple.

The 'side' that says 'any model' acknowledged from the beginning that while this interpretation is how the rule currently reads, it's a ridiculous way to actually play it.

Don't you necron players (who want this) have enough stuff to win?

There is a common misapprehension on the internet that anyone arguing in favour of a given rules interpretation can only be doing so for their own benefit. Quite a lot of the time, this is not the case... particularly when those pointing out how the rule is written are also pointing out that they wouldn't actually play it as written.

For what it's worth, while I play Necrons, I don't have any Ghost Arks, and am not likely to any time soon. I don't have a horse in this race. Pointing out that the rule as written is broken isn't an attempt to gain an advantage for myself. It's an attempt to make people aware that the rule as written is broken, and so they're going to need to discuss the situation with their opponent if it's going to be an issue.

 The Cry of the Wind wrote:
Don't you necron players (who want this) have enough stuff to win? You can't do it with tons of flyers, wraiths all over and ridiculous cryptek abilities? You need to try including models not bought with the original squad to respawn? Make better placement choices if you're losing your models that easily.

Is that a new thing in this board?
Every Necron-discussion has to be ruled against Necrons because "they have enough stuff to win". What a stupid argument.

Newsflash: If other things were a little bit better, you wouldn't have to face the same 18 Wraiths, 4 Flyers and 3 Barges every tournament.
I'm so sick and tired of that anti-Necron attitude.

Ok, let's say it can repair court members, what are the limiting factors? Can you add a court member to a unit that wasn't deployed with one? can you add more than 1 court member? what upgrades does the court member have? And for all of the answers, why?

Same as the old one.
Why? Because I say so, that's how this thread works.
Because its a logical choice between any model and only warriors.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Ok, let's say it can repair court members, what are the limiting factors? Can you add a court member to a unit that wasn't deployed with one? can you add more than 1 court member? what upgrades does the court member have? And for all of the answers, why?

We've already been over all of this.

Once again - the rule as written is broken, and simply allows you to add whatever the hell models you want.

Anything beyond that is up to the players to decide, because GW haven't bothered to address it. The common options are -
- You can only bring back warriors, to the starting strength of the unit minus royal court
Or
- You can bring back any member of the unit that has been killed so far. They come back exactly as they were before they died.
-- this second option may or may not extend to attached ICs, depending on the players involved.

Either of those options though is a house rule. There are also a number of other ways you could play it... and they would also be house rules.

There is no 'correct' RAW answer on this one, because the RAW in this particular situation is absurd.

 insaniak wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Ok, let's say it can repair court members, what are the limiting factors? Can you add a court member to a unit that wasn't deployed with one? can you add more than 1 court member? what upgrades does the court member have? And for all of the answers, why?

We've already been over all of this.

Once again - the rule as written is broken, and simply allows you to add whatever the hell models you want.

Anything beyond that is up to the players to decide, because GW haven't bothered to address it. The common options are -
- You can only bring back warriors, to the starting strength of the unit minus royal court
Or
- You can bring back any member of the unit that has been killed so far. They come back exactly as they were before they died.
-- this second option may or may not extend to attached ICs, depending on the players involved.

Either of those options though is a house rule. There are also a number of other ways you could play it... and they would also be house rules.

There is no 'correct' RAW answer on this one, because the RAW in this particular situation is absurd.

Given that it seems to be clear that the RAW is gak, would it not be prudent to use the least advantageous of the options to add only Warrior models to the unit? At least until if/when GW gets around to addressing it.

There is already a precedent where a unit rule applies to attached RC members. So a Ghost Ark should add RC members to the unit. The least advantageous way to play this is to add RC members that were part of the unit in the first place and without any spent one-use items.

Ok, for those arguing that we can't bring back RC members, let me ask this:

The rule prevent the select unit from growing larger than its starting size. So let's say I have a unit of ten warriors with two RC members. My unit size would be twelve. Lets say you kill the two RC members, brining my unit down to ten.

Do you think I can then add two warrior models? Or am I not allowed to bring back anything thus not allowing me to bring my unit back to its starting size?

thedunator wrote:
Ok, for those arguing that we can't bring back RC members, let me ask this:

The rule prevent the select unit from growing larger than its starting size. So let's say I have a unit of ten warriors with two RC members. My unit size would be twelve. Lets say you kill the two RC members, brining my unit down to ten.

Do you think I can then add two warrior models? Or am I not allowed to bring back anything thus not allowing me to bring my unit back to its starting size?

Yes people saying you only add warriors would largely say in this situation you could not add any more models to the unit with the Ghost Ark. Until some warriors died.

"when an IC is joined to a unit it counts as being part of the unit for all rule purposes" pg 39.

from this entry I think it fairly easy to see that you would indeed be able to add him back when dead, however I rarely see and instance when this is going to be applied unless specifically agreed upon before the game. Most players need to read the first paragraph on pg 8.
Considering that there is obviously no clear an concise answer to the problem you would think the easiest solution should be to just come to this consensus at the start of your games.