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2013/11/03 17:28:17
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
odin wrote: i actually dont mind for gw to only sell english products i speak dutch and i cant read french or german so if i go to a tournament and i play vs a german or a frenchy they usualy pull a fast one on me becouse i cant contradict them bcouse of the foreign language of there codex while im stuck whit a english codex.
I have run into enough English speaking players that are using English language rulebooks deliberately mess the rules for their advantage to say that is going to happen anyway - part of the reason that I greatly prefer Kings of War.
Cutting off a market is seldom a good idea - and can be seen as admission that GW is in a long decline.
I remember when they trumpeted their first foreign language translations - French and German, as it happens.
Being glad that they are abandoning those markets because it will now give you the edge in tournaments... seems like another good reason to get out of the tournament circuit.
Back on topic -
One bit of collateral effect that GW likely did not think of is that this will help their competitors - if they do not have Warhammer then the French and the Germans, the Italians and the Dutch will all turn to or create their own rule sets, filling the space that GW is leaving in the equation.
The good thing is that they won't have to worry about people buying third party parts for any of their games, since folks won't be playing their games....
I wonder how long before a German or French Kings of War is created, to help fill in that space? (The space will not be filled by a single game...but it will be filled.)
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/11/03 17:31:35
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Or alternatively, the playing field is now levelled, and other smaller companies who perhaps genuinely don't have the resources to provide multi-lingual support, are now just as attractive to play for non-English speakers?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Privateer Press: Warmachine and Hordes have German rules and cards.
Infinity rules are available in German.
X-Wings has German rules.
Godslayer has German rules (now).
Dropzone has a small leaflet with German rules.
The FoW starter box includes a so called German version, but it is a babelfish translation with no feedback by a native speaker and often incomprehensible.
Malifaux is English only with only EU distributor in UK. They announced to call German shops in English, whether they have an idea how to imporve sales in Germany. Guess Dystopian Wars English only.
Warlord Games all English.
Kroothawk wrote: Privateer Press: Warmachine and Hordes have German rules and cards.
Infinity rules are available in German.
X-Wings has German rules.
Godslayer has German rules (now).
Dropzone has a small leaflet with German rules.
The FoW starter box includes a so called German version, but it is a babelfish translation with no feedback by a native speaker and often incomprehensible.
Malifaux is English only with only EU distributor in UK. They announced to call German shops in English, whether they have an idea how to imporve sales in Germany. Guess Dystopian Wars English only.
Warlord Games all English.
Don't forget Mantic, they have German translations on their website and sell a German retail box of Dreadball.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/04 10:55:01
2013/11/04 12:07:19
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
odin wrote: i actually dont mind for gw to only sell english products i speak dutch and i cant read french or german so if i go to a tournament and i play vs a german or a frenchy they usualy pull a fast one on me becouse i cant contradict them bcouse of the foreign language of there codex while im stuck whit a english codex.
I have run into enough English speaking players that are using English language rulebooks deliberately mess the rules for their advantage to say that is going to happen anyway - part of the reason that I greatly prefer Kings of War.
Cutting off a market is seldom a good idea - and can be seen as admission that GW is in a long decline.
I remember when they trumpeted their first foreign language translations - French and German, as it happens.
Being glad that they are abandoning those markets because it will now give you the edge in tournaments... seems like another good reason to get out of the tournament circuit.
*SNIP*
The Auld Grump
I need to clarify that I did not realize that odin is a nonnative English speaker himself - this changes most of what my argument in that post was based on, though I do feel that limiting the market is a poor decision.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
2013/11/04 21:05:36
Subject: Re:Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
odin wrote: i actually dont mind for gw to only sell english products i speak dutch and i cant read french or german so if i go to a tournament and i play vs a german or a frenchy they usualy pull a fast one on me becouse i cant contradict them bcouse of the foreign language of there codex while im stuck whit a english codex.
With every Magic: The Gathering release, WotC publishes all of their cards in 10 different languages and their translation is precise enough that you can show up at any sanctioned event with a card in any language and never have a rules issue because they all say the same thing in game terms. Furthermore, they support multi-language areas through their product distribution. Any local store here can order in starters and booster boxes in any language available. It's also becoming more and more vogue for collectors to get their favorite cards in different languages.
There were Hasbro investor presentations that people posted here on Dakka Dakka that showed that sales volume for Magic has tripled over the last five years with the majority of the growth coming from non-English speaking countries.
WotC knows what they are doing in that their game design is tight enough that you can express it in ten different languages and never have a rules issue result, their distribution allows anyone to get any language product they offer and they saw the real growth potential in foreign markets and have been aggressively pursuing them.
GW? The only thing they seem to know how to do is cut services, cut staff and raise prices to keep revenue flat while volume falls. And if they can save some money my not paying for translation, they'll do it regardless of the impact on sales in the future.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
2014/01/18 20:21:55
Subject: Re:Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
It's a clear removal of what they believe is 'fat' although I'd argue it's muscle mass and the whole body will suffer for it as other muscles and tendons in the company will be forced to work harder to compensate for yet more surgery...
They won't want to lose those markets, but are trying to, yet again, cut costs whilst remaining in those markets, by yet more centralizing, or as I like to call it, shrinking.
2014/01/18 20:59:43
Subject: Re:Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
I posted on my local GW Facebook page asking if their shop is in any danger, but I haven't gotten a response. I'm not sure whether or not I should expect one...
Shotgun wrote: I don't think I will ever understand the mentality of people that feel the need to record and post their butthurt on the interwebs.
2014/01/18 21:18:56
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Something else: White Dwarf is no longer, and the new magazines (WD Weekly and Warhammer Visions) will not be published in Spain and will not be translated to Spanish. I think they are English-only too.
White Dwarf was first published in Spain in 1993. Over 20 years.
Bye bye White Dwarf.
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
2014/01/18 21:36:25
Subject: Re:Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Bad advertising for the fluency of English in the Netherlands. I think Dennis Ernst needs some more schooling (EDIT: It seems that Dennis Ernst is the manager of GW South Amsterdam.... )
I didn't know the shop closed, this must be the Rokin one. Luckily for Dennis and Ernst GW opens two new shops in Amsterdam West AND south. Strange tactics, guess the Rokin one became too expensive rent-wise (although I believe Rozengracht isn't cheap either, let alone paying rent for two shops).
Back on topic; I can understand Kroothawk's problem. French and Germans aren't as fluent in English as most Scandinavian, Dutch and Belgian people. I think they deserve their translated versions while everything gets translated there on tv for instance, while in Holland the foreign tv shows are in their original language with Dutch subtitles.
Although children shows get translated much more nowadays in Dutch, which makes the learning of foreign languages suffer with the youth though. A bad development but that is another topic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/18 22:17:17
Eventually somehow GW will not only go 'english only' but it will become HQ'd in the US...
...sure they can do 2 HQs as permitted by normal force org charts... But then there'll be some loop hole where they'll have two US HQs plus they'll claim the game was only for 1999 pts so no double force org... so the extra HQs gotta go... and somehow it'll be total US with no UK allies (who plays w/ allies?!)...
But that's not all...
Eventually Mattel or Hasbro or Subway will eat up GW and revamp their stuff into some 'Made in 'murica!' type thing that'll use yucky gross prepaints in boosters sold at Target.
...and what of the old GW prime or alpha or uk or whatever? They're going to all get into Warmahordes... see the broken combos... then they'll resort to just start playing Settlers of Catan using Forgeworld materials like Zone Mortalis and Renegade Guardsmen.
...Except Jervis... he'll know better and get out of the whole tabletop thing and start a food truck with a couple of the codex writers.
Oh and no one will tell the black library authors... they'll continue to write stuff for the GW stuff and won't even bat an eye when all of a sudden execs want stories of magical ponies with laser swords.
In all seriousness though...
I don't like the direction that GW seems to be taking... its like they're trying to super ultra hardcore mainstream their stuff.
2014/01/18 21:50:35
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Good call on this Kroot. You noticed the packaging changes and the translation team changes and now GW is closing their HQs and moving them to the UK.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
2014/01/19 00:18:01
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Hold on, they aren't translating the rule books in languages other than English? That can't be right, that'll be corporate suicide.
Most still are, but the fraction of non-translated books increases, a.o.all digital releases.
Fun fact: GW lets the German LOTR rules for Elves, Dwarfs, Hobbits, Easterlings, Harad, Khand and Isengard go out of print, with no plans for a reprint. The new and only available Hobbit rulebook does not include those stats. So no kid can play the game even if he wanted, unless he can read English.
Warhammer Visions (the "monthly WD) will be pics with English/French/German subtitles, so no more subscribable mag with content in any langage anymore, just pics printed in a global edition.
frozenwastes wrote: Good call on this Kroot. You noticed the packaging changes and the translation team changes and now GW is closing their HQs and moving them to the UK.
(...)
2.) Reduced support for non-English markets is something, that not only affects the customers in those countries, but also eventually the GW staff there. First it will hit the retail staff that will have more and more difficulties to meet the sales targets to keep their jobs/shops. Finally it will meet the HQ staff in each non-English country. So GW's aggressive shrinking policy will cost jobs of people not responsible for the absurd mistakes by higher management in Nottingham. GW, being a strict streamlined yes-company with no feedback allowed, makes it difficult for staff to express their concern, but fear for their jobs will eventually motivate them to try. This is something we should support.
But I admit, it happened quicker than I thought, because other bad business decisions accelerated this process.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/19 00:32:15
You can say it "doesn't make sense" from a business standpoint, but to claim this is to not understand GW.
Every decision they've made for the last 6-7 years has been a stalling tactics, particularly since 2010 when prices hit the point of no absurdity. So they'll cut x, combine y, and scheme around with the numbers of z all to produce a positive financial report for the shareholders. That all what GW is manipulation of products for reports, and while every company obviously tries to make a profit GW does it with a shortsightedness and recklessness with no sustainability. So GW will likely cut the non-English market despite it not being economically wise, because it could provide a temporary boost to a future financial report.
Manipulating the numbers for the next report they'll come up with a new plan. Nothing is about growing a business model, nevermind a sustainable one.
My Armies:
5,500pts 2,700pts 2,000pts
2014/01/19 04:32:50
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
You can say it "doesn't make sense" from a business standpoint, but to claim this is to not understand GW.
Every decision they've made for the last 6-7 years has been a stalling tactics, particularly since 2010 when prices hit the point of no absurdity. So they'll cut x, combine y, and scheme around with the numbers of z all to produce a positive financial report for the shareholders. That all what GW is manipulation of products for reports, and while every company obviously tries to make a profit GW does it with a shortsightedness and recklessness with no sustainability. So GW will likely cut the non-English market despite it not being economically wise, because it could provide a temporary boost to a future financial report.
Manipulating the numbers for the next report they'll come up with a new plan. Nothing is about growing a business model, nevermind a sustainable one.
If any of that is true they don't have much time left. There isn't much more to cut and very few remaining tricks to cook the books with. We'd be looking at Fantasy and Lotr/Hobbit being gone entirely within two years and 40K (and the company as a whole) in 10 the maximum. Eventually people will talk about GW's era as the one when miniature gaming was really popular worldwide, and how the company responsible for that popularity failed to adapt with the times of internet, social medias and video gaming.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/19 04:39:49
2014/01/19 08:35:51
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Jehan-reznor wrote: I wonder if they would stop translating to Japanese? that would be a big loss
AFAIK there is one person in Nottingham doing all Japanese translations.
But with everything else cut to the bones, there is noone left to fire for the next report except Nottingham HQ staff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/19 10:40:41
Jehan-reznor wrote: I wonder if they would stop translating to Japanese? that would be a big loss
AFAIK there is one person in Nottingham doing all Japanese translations.
Could it not be done by the Google translator? This would save the salaries for all the translators.
Considering all the mistakes, it probably is.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/01/19 15:54:12
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
Don't get me started with the Spanish editions, people complained about Corvus Belli's translations to English but were unaware if GW's ones to Spanish.
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
2014/01/19 19:52:51
Subject: Is GW retreating from all non-English markets?
(EDIT: It seems that Dennis Ernst is the manager of 
)
Death Guard 1.0: 8,500 points painted (Pics available in Gallery) P: 7 W: 1 D: 3 L: 3
Thousand Sons: 3,750 points painted P:1 W:1 D:0 L:0
Nurgle Daemons: 3,800 points painted P:2 W:1 D:1 L:0
Primaris "Honoured Mastodons": 3,700 points painted
Tau 6,750 points painted 
~4100
~1660
