Not reminding opponents about their rules; Cheating or Competitive Play?

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**rigeld2**

Those advocating that both parties receive punishment for allowing an illegal board state are also so saying that the "other" player (ie the one that didn't remind about twin linked bolters on bikes) receive an essentially irrelevant warning. If said player receives enough of them consistently (never reminds biker players about twin-linked) it's not a lack of knowledge - it's a lack of willingness. And that's bad.

**Karvala**

Breng77 wrote:
The issue I see with needing to remind my opponent of his rules (his armies rules) is to what extent am I expected to know them? I usually will remind people, but just to keep with the twinlinked gun example.

So say I play against a space Marine bike army and I don't know that he has twin linked bolters...if I don't remind him to re-roll that is cheating?

Or is it only cheating if I know he has them and don't say anything?

At which point penalties on me forgetting my opponents rules are unenforcable. If you are going to penalize me for not knowing every rule an opposing model may have I probably won't show up.

At some level opponents need to know their own rules.

That is why I draw the line at Base rulebook rules, I should be expected to know those and make sure they are followed. I should not be required to know every armies rules and make sure they get followed.

IF my opponent is playing Daemons for example and I have never faced them before, do I need to know that he must roll warp storm? Or is that on him?

Like I said if I remember the rule I'll remind my opponent. But I am hardly cheating if I cannot remember his armies rules if he does not.

There are three points to look at:

Is it cheating if your opponent makes a rules error and you are unaware of it? - Obviously not.

Is it cheating if your opponent makes a rules error and you are aware of it and you allow him to do it to gain advantage? - Yes, by common definition of the word

Is it a behaviour that can realistically be punished in a tournament setting? - No.

Just because you won't be punished for doing it does not mean it is not cheating.

(And just to restate - the above applies to rules errors, not your opponent failing to use optional actions/wargear to best effect, or making poor tactical decisions)

**Breng77**

While true someone continually not reminding other players of non-optional rules could very likely be doing so purposefully, again, how do you even start warning them? The other player would need to know that they forgot to remind them of a rule, but if they forgot the rule....

Again, not advocating the not telling people about rules they are missing. I am advocating that doing anything about it is no workable with how tournament currently run.

More often than not I allow rules errors in my opponents favor than anything. Either they don't have an impact on the game, or I'm winning considerably and don't see the value of harping on rules at that point.

**Mr Morden**

I tend to tell them if they are forgetting stuff etc - but I only rarely play in tournaments - plus often Karma works and if you tell them - then they miss (or whatever) anyway

**blaktoof**

In some cases not reminding your opponent of rules is blatant cheating.

ie your opponent is playing a space marines derivative with ATSKNF and forgets that they have ATSKNF you letting them suffer normal morale issues when they forget, and you know better is cheating.

Ignorance of the rules on both parties is still bad, and honestly the only excuse.

40k should be played tactically, and friendly. This game is about community and hobby not just winning. You should win through tactics and luck of dice, not through memory of RAW.

Imagine if 40k were digital, and you played on a digital tabletop where the dice were rolled for you and the rules were enacted as you move your units declare shoot/charging etc. The neutral computer (the rules) would enact the rules regardless if someone forgot or not. So if you know a rule that your opponent forgot that is not optional, ie it has to happen, not a choice. You should remind your opponent.

**TheKbob**

Friendly, new person, or relaxed setting, always try to help each other on rules because it makes both parties a better player. With the speed of new codex releases, we're all going to forget something about Eldar rending, Tau markerlight fired seeker missiles, the Salvo rule or something else that's funky or unique to 6E/Codex.

A local for funsies tournament? Still help people out.

As soon as there is money paid for a tournament with an expectation of prizes for 1st, 2nd, 3rd based on Generalship; no love, no help. If I'm paying a large chunk of change for a regional or GT, I'm in it to win it (and still have fun). But I'm not in it to ensure everyone knows their rules. I take the time to reread the rulebook and purchase a good deal of the new codecis to learn the new rules. At that level of play (and my monetary input), I don't see how it would be considered cheating if someone can't know their rules. What's worse is not knowing the rules and disputing every action. Good way to get hit with slow play.