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Just saying, it is called the HORUS Heresy. Maybe him and the chaos gods?

 Seb wrote:
The Emperor is to blame for his irresponsible parenting.
-> Hey, I just lost my 20 sons to the warp.

He is also to blame for not realizing what a poor parent he is, after finding his sons.
-> Hey, I put Angron and Dorn in the same room, and I do not realize one of them is a complete whack job, and still give him an army of super soldiers.

Then the grand architect is Erebus, just playing on those mistakes.

The great question stays : how can you be the Emperor and not realize you made THAT MANY mistakes : Lorgar? Cruze? Angron? Sending one's own son to exterminate his brother?

The emperor bred legions of space marines, that are ultimate, obedient and conditionned killing machines, but yet gave command of those guys to erratic and crazed primarchs - some very obviously so.

In the end, it is a wonder the great crusade could go all that way before the heresy. So many things could have gone wrong much earlier.

Look at the Emporer himself, it isn't that surprising that he would make erratic decisions. He sure says he isn't for deification, yet grants support to supplicants during early stages (i.e. before the heresy actually kicks off for 'real'), he also is guilty of setting up a form of personality cult centered around himself and the Primarchs. He sets his sons up as the 'kings of the castle' such that everyone bows to them, kneels before them, and otherwise behaves in more of a servile and less of a military way around both them and himself.

The Primarchs are dictators, as is the Emporer, who's word is law and all must bow to his every whim. Effectively the Emporer seldom displays that he is constrained by his own laws.

Meaning in the end he is still very fallible, and to err is human.

The Horus Heresy would happen no matter what. At some point, when trying to build an empire that big, someone is going to rebel. Even the Pax Romana was a state of almost perpetual warfare along the borders of the Roman Empire, and there were plenty of internal squabbles as well.

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 rednecroncryptek wrote:
The Eldar. Ask me how. I dare you.

...
...
...

how

Well it was the Eldar who ruled the galaxy correct? It was their gluttony and greed and relentless indulgences that triggered their fall AND THE BIRTH OF SLAANESH. Thus 3 gods became four. This then let the rampant warp storms surrounding terra to abate and therefore allowing the Emperor to begin his Great Crusade. And allowed the gods to steal and corrupt the Primarchs. (The First Heretic displays how Lorgar was held and corrupted in the warp before falling to his homeworld). Thus it was the Eldar who inadvertently let the Imperium develop. And without Slaanesh, the Emperors children would have remained loyalist. The galaxy is still butthurt over the fact that Eldar fell, coz now everyone is screwed.

Mcfloonoo wrote:
Erebus. I havent read the whole heresy series, but man I hope that ass hole dies.

Erebus's fate...If you MUST know

We knew Erebus would live long before the Heresy started. He's one of the leaders of the Word Bearers in the "Present" 40th Millenium for crying out loud (and has been so ever since he first existed as a character if I recalled correctly)

As more and more novels continue to be released, I think my opinion for who is most to blame has shifted to the Emperor.

In this order:

Erebus ('cause everything leads back to him (basically))
Lorgar (For listening to Erebus)
Horus
Emperor


Alternativley, the emperor could be a few steps higher for not working on his kids psychological issues/being to sold on the idea of a flawless Horus to listen to Magnus.

1. The Chaos Gods (obviously)
2. Erebus and Kor Phaeron (the original heretics who orchestrated the whole thing)
3. The Emperor (Not directly responsible, but in hindsight his decisions allowed the Heresy to take place)
4. Horus (Horus' charisma and military genius made the Heresy as large and effective as it was)

If you could see 1000 ways for a single event to turn out differently you would choose the best one. Now if you could see 1000 events and 1000 ways for each to turn out you would choose a way for each event to turn out Wether bad or good that was the best ending for you when all is said and finished.

Yes the emperor could of stopped individual events or "set someone up for success" but changing that 1 event you would like the best result from does not give you the best ending at the end of 1000 events.

Now keep in mind the emperor was influencing billions and billions of events at any given moment so that everyone did things a certain way to reach the point that WH40K is at now...
Sorry your favorite primarch was treated like dirt but guess what humanity is still alive and kicking.

So no the emperor did not screw up.

I would tell you there's no such thing as chaos and the warp and promote a Psychopath killer over a saint if that meant 10 years from now you would be in just the right place at just the right time to be able to hit the button that launches the nuke to wipe out the Tyranid hive fleet that would eventually destroy the earth.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
So between your personal feelings and not breaking faith with the emperor.... the choice you offer is no choice at all

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
As more and more novels continue to be released, I think my opinion for who is most to blame has shifted to the Emperor.

Cast "resurrection " spell on thread.

 FeindusMaximus wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
As more and more novels continue to be released, I think my opinion for who is most to blame has shifted to the Emperor.

Cast "resurrection " spell on thread.

yeah a 2 year old necro nice work

Yes, and thanks for contributing btw

wows why the necro people wanna here the emprah or the word budies, depending on your bias again?

The thing is, the Emperor had been round for thousands of years. Did he never have a wife, or any human offspring? Anyway, I digress, the hubris of the whole transhuman project, as written in the BL books seems to me to play a large part in who to apportion blame ror the Heresy.

If it makes you feel better, Erebus gets the crud kicked out of him in a couple of recent heresy books. Betrayer is very satisfying.

the question of the Emperor's human sons..... well, look up "sensei" in a 40k context. Not been in the background for a long time, but nor was ollianus pious.

Also, one other faction that bears some blame - apparently (path of heaven) the paternova -- leader of the navigator dynasties - knew about the imperial webway project, and could see what that would inevitably mean for his rich, despised mutant freaks in an imperium which no longer needed them....

Emperor was to blame from the fact he tried to do too much too fast.

He did not prepare properly or let his sons know what was going on knowing them fully. Magnus if told from the start would of helped and not broke the wall protecting from the warp.

Angron if he was allowed to save his family or left to die would not of been a problem both things he wanted for himself.

If he did not give the rains to the crusade to horus who shared his goal in taking more for his glory.

If he spoke to Lorgar rather then donkey punching him then ridding His ass around like a pony probly would of ended better.

If tauth about the demon gods to start the primarchs would of supported their father better. They each share a trait of him and altho they have the bodies of an adult and the strength of a demigod they where fragile and needed training and to be nutured.

The emperor was corrupted by his own goals and his short comings fell in on themselves. If he knew his sons well enough and knew they needed love and support to prepare for what was to come, he would not have failed. The chaos gods knew his sons better then him which is why he failed.

Yes there is a few account of him being a father are helpful but far more of him expecting to much faith with no givin cause.

Like him talking to horus under the stars or with fulgrim having pity and allowing him to carry his symbol. Both where caring gestures, but when he seen fulgrim becoming obsessed with perfection to make up for this he could of helped him from falling.

Or pertrubo.. Forget how to spell his name rather then letting him and the primarch of IF forget his name aswell. Have a rival with each other they needed to be allowed to see how both where needed a lord of taking what can not be taken. A fortress so protected that he could trust no other to keep his kingdom safe. Instead again pitting them against each other. He created hate and hate spawns many demons.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Who do you consider to be most at fault when it comes to laying blame for the Horus Heresy? Who contributed most? This is a broad topic, as there is plenty of blame to go around, and there are still plenty of Horus Heresy novels being released. I find myself absolutely loathing Erebus - he's sneaky, conniving, and incredibly evil.

While everybody screwed up at one point or another in the days leading up to the Heresy (including the Emperor), the Horus Heresy is misnamed. It should be the "Erebus Heresy", since he was the main one who got the treason ball rolling. When it comes to the Imperial VIP side of Chaos mischief, Erebus was the "beachhead" (for want of a better term) for Chaos to spread their vile influence amongst the Primarchs (who were both the Imperium's pointmen and the Imperium's major weak point).

Isn't it OBVIOUS who to blame? Who planned the whole thing, sowed the seed of Heresy amongst the Primarchs and convinced Magnus to make the Emperor so mad he missed his son's point? Do not ask who lurks in the shadows, for it is I...Tzeentch.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Who do you consider to be most at fault when it comes to laying blame for the Horus Heresy? Who contributed most? This is a broad topic, as there is plenty of blame to go around, and there are still plenty of Horus Heresy novels being released. I find myself absolutely loathing Erebus - he's sneaky, conniving, and incredibly evil.

While everybody screwed up at one point or another in the days leading up to the Heresy (including the Emperor), the Horus Heresy is misnamed. It should be the "Erebus Heresy", since he was the main one who got the treason ball rolling. When it comes to the Imperial VIP side of Chaos mischief, Erebus was the "beachhead" (for want of a better term) for Chaos to spread their vile influence amongst the Primarchs (who were both the Imperium's pointmen and the Imperium's major weak point).

Erebus started it, but Horus got it to another level that Erebus wouldn't able to achieve.

I agree, Horus had the means, ambition, and opportunities to take the Heresy to a level Erebus never could have.

I blame the chaos gods for the horus heresy.

I blame the Emperor. It bothers me how someone who is meant to be so smart is so stupid.

The maniac who had an army of techno barbarians but wanted more and refused to listen to the cabal

locarno24 wrote:
If it makes you feel better, Erebus gets the crud kicked out of him in a couple of recent heresy books. Betrayer is very satisfying.

Is that where
I wasn't quite sure of the meaning of that scene. I got that it showed that Horus was over Erebus and his "orders" but why show it that way? Why not just kill him?
Seemed like there was something deeper I was missing

I think Erebus still has a big part to play, and killing him outright closes a lot of doors in the story. Having him brutalized was a gift to the readers, haha.

Tzeentch and his puppets, just as planned

Retrogamer0001 wrote:I think Erebus still has a big part to play, and killing him outright closes a lot of doors in the story. Having him brutalized was a gift to the readers, haha.

JustALittleOrkish wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
If it makes you feel better, Erebus gets the crud kicked out of him in a couple of recent heresy books. Betrayer is very satisfying.

Is that where

Spoiler:

Horus rips off Erebus' face?

I wasn't quite sure of the meaning of that scene. I got that it showed that Horus was over Erebus and his "orders" but why show it that way? Why not just kill him?
Seemed like there was something deeper I was missing

Well, there's also the fact that in current 40k fluff Erebus survives the Heresy and commands the largest of the Word Bearer's Hosts in 41M.
Kinda hard to do that when you're dead.

 Draco wrote:
Tzeentch and his puppets, just as planned

Finally someone agrees with me!

I think it's a mixture of E-money and Erebus.

Big E is at fault for making all the primarchs jealous and paranoid of each other and he's also basically space Hitler. He also showed favourites in his sons and was a to some of them like Angron, Magnus and to an extent, Lorgar.

Erebus was the one who was corrupted by Chaos and used Emps's mistakes to plan out the heresy.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Who do you consider to be most at fault when it comes to laying blame for the Horus Heresy? Who contributed most? This is a broad topic, as there is plenty of blame to go around, and there are still plenty of Horus Heresy novels being released. I find myself absolutely loathing Erebus - he's sneaky, conniving, and incredibly evil.

While everybody screwed up at one point or another in the days leading up to the Heresy (including the Emperor), the Horus Heresy is misnamed. It should be the "Erebus Heresy", since he was the main one who got the treason ball rolling. When it comes to the Imperial VIP side of Chaos mischief, Erebus was the "beachhead" (for want of a better term) for Chaos to spread their vile influence amongst the Primarchs (who were both the Imperium's pointmen and the Imperium's major weak point).

Well I like that misnaming. It's good IN UNIVERSE name. After all for Imperium at large Erebus's role wasn't known. Wonder if any loyals ever found out? Horus however...He's one known pretty much everywhere so when he's the poster boy of the heresy so to speak...No wonder heresy got named Horus Heresy.