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 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I like the diversity of armies, but aren't DE/Sisters/Weird GK/DE builds pretty much free wins for the players who brought tier 1 armies?

Sisters took down seer council round 1 ;p. GO SIMON!!!

If sisters go first, their scounting melta doms can really do a number on the seer council. Once the council gets fortune/conceal up though, they're boned.

Chaos Space Marines with no Demons took down Ben Mohile round 1. Go Chaos!

The Wifi was not very cooperative so we had to abandon the twitch stream.

We will still be updating ToF as results come in.

-Mike

TOF app isn't working, what's the news?

Just received the first update. Tony defeats TJ.

ummm tony kopach lost to simon leen right? awesome for simon : )

Sisters all the way boss!

So who took out the camera? Someone trip on a chord?;p

Edit:and it's back!

A player bumped it with his head and the whole thing came down.

What were the results in round 3 ?

Tim gorham, John parsons, Paul Murphy, and Matt defranza all won to stay undefeated.

Congratulations to Chicago's very own Tim Gorham for the tourney win. Here is Tim's unconventional list.

http://www.torrentoffire.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/tim_gorham.pdf

Which part of that list is unconventional?

The 5 HQs? Coteaz? Or the psychic powers that help it destroy seer councils and ignore all other rules of the game?

At first I thought that a winning marines list would halt the call for tournament comp/reform, then I realized that this is another iteration of a cheese dick death star that aims to abuse battle brothers and the inquistion codex.

I think it's about time we started to hate the players or change the game.

bogalubov wrote:
Which part of that list is unconventional?

The 5 HQs? Coteaz? Or the psychic powers that help it destroy seer councils and ignore all other rules of the game?

At first I thought that a winning marines list would halt the call for tournament comp/reform, then I realized that this is another iteration of a cheese dick death star that aims to abuse battle brothers and the inquistion codex.

I think it's about time we started to hate the players or change the game.

Cool heads will prevail.

The game is currently death star 40k... it will be countered by MSU 40k in the next few months... its a cycle in the game

Which part of that list is unconventional?

The 5 HQs? Coteaz? Or the psychic powers that help it destroy seer councils and ignore all other rules of the game?

At first I thought that a winning marines list would halt the call for tournament comp/reform, then I realized that this is another iteration of a cheese dick death star that aims to abuse battle brothers and the inquistion codex.

I think it's about time we started to hate the players or change the game.

Where have you seen that list before? The whole thing is super original and proves that there are some neat combos out there which aren't so obvious.If you wanted to call out the crutch armies like the Seer/Screamers/Beasts, I'd understand, but the winning Marine list is nowhere near that level of abuse.

Kudos to Tim Gorham for making something cool work.

I really want to find out how that Marine list works! Congrats to everyone, especially Tim!

Creative doesn't mean non-abusive. Plus using inquisition and especially Coteaz does not scream innovation to me.

Much has been made about the cyclical nature of 40k tournament lists and the eventual rise of the next cheese. But I don't think that we need to sit back and wait while hoping that some new broken combo or D weapons will deliver us from evil. Just because that is how the game progressed in the past does not make it the best way to the future.

My problem with the current top lists is that they seek to remove the participation of the other player. If players feel compelled to bring these lists because that is the only way to compete perhaps the rules need to be changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gornall wrote:
I really want to find out how that Marine list works! Congrats to everyone, especially Tim!

It's a 2+/4++ (with forewarning) death star with 2 chapter masters with 3++ and it will not die. The grav cannons wound on 2s or 3s against the council with ap2/ignore cover shots. The star also has scout to bring their guns to bear earlier.

Creative doesn't mean non-abusive. Plus using inquisition and especially Coteaz does not scream innovation to me.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. I'd rather face the winning list than Seers/Screamers/Beasts, but that's just me.

Much has been made about the cyclical nature of 40k tournament lists and the eventual rise of the next cheese. But I don't think that we need to sit back and wait while hoping that some new broken combo or D weapons will deliver us from evil. Just because that is how the game progressed in the past does not make it the best way to the future.

No competitive players are talking about d-weapons. Anyone with half a brain can tell they only serve to homogenize the game down to just Eldar and Crons.

My problem with the current top lists is that they seek to remove the participation of the other player. If players feel compelled to bring these lists because that is the only way to compete perhaps the rules need to be changed.

The 2+ re-rollable save en masse is very lame. I said before that a bunch of the players in this invitational are too talented to take Seers/Screamers/Beasts and I stand by that. That being said, those lists aren't an auto win.

My overall point is that we need to stop waiting for new broken rules or combos to advance the game.

GW has created a universe and model set that they're telling us to go forth and enjoy. That means getting together and deciding how best to create an enjoyable tournament game.

Congrats to winner. And congrats to more cry babies who probably can't win if they had the greatest list, made by the greatest minds in the history of the game, who trained said crybaby for a year... Enough of the mentality "I can't win, so any list that does must be broken, over powered, abusive, or unfair wahhh"

Tim's list is very interesting. He runs Irons with two CMs, two scout squads, a big cent squad, tigirius, with cotaez and some henchmen.

He has a decent chance of going first with Coteaz and cast Perfect Timing and Prescience from Tigurius onto this big centstar. With split-fire he can fire two bombardments that are twin-linked ignore cover at two different targets. And of course the other 4 centurions firing their grav. The CMs tank anything that fire back and them and if you charge the unit good luck! Rad grenades and Psychotroke Grenades

I had a great tournament, even though I lost all 3 games with the bugs . Oh well time to re-think that list I played. Thanks again to Chip and Mike for running a great event.

People have been talking about the Centurion deathstar for a while now.

It is just another deathstar in deathstar 40K

Kemp wrote:
Tim's list is very interesting. He runs Irons with two CMs, two scout squads, a big cent squad, tigirius, with cotaez and some henchmen.

He has a decent chance of going first with Coteaz and cast Perfect Timing and Prescience from Tigurius onto this big centstar. With split-fire he can fire two bombardments that are twin-linked ignore cover at two different targets. And of course the other 4 centurions firing their grav. The CMs tank anything that fire back and them and if you charge the unit good luck! Rad grenades and Psychotroke Grenades

I lost to him in the semi finals, very solid player. Was a very very fun, and tight game! Lost due to first blood! 2bps to one. It's a nice take on the grav star!

Had a great time and had a few beers with a great group of guys. Thanks for running it Chip, and thanks to all my opponents for great games. Except Nick.

Banosby wrote:
Had a great time and had a few beers with a great group of guys. Thanks for running it Chip, and thanks to all my opponents for great games. Except Nick.

Who vomited all over the outside of my car, right after he pooped himself. But with out nick I would have never been able to copy his FMC list and show him which daemon build is better!!!!!

<3 nick

Chancetragedy wrote:

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I like the diversity of armies, but aren't DE/Sisters/Weird GK/DE builds pretty much free wins for the players who brought tier 1 armies?

Sisters took down seer council round 1 ;p. GO SIMON!!!

Very nice!

Kemp wrote:
Tim's list is very interesting. He runs Irons with two CMs, two scout squads, a big cent squad, tigirius, with cotaez and some henchmen.

He has a decent chance of going first with Coteaz and cast Perfect Timing and Prescience from Tigurius onto this big centstar. With split-fire he can fire two bombardments that are twin-linked ignore cover at two different targets. And of course the other 4 centurions firing their grav. The CMs tank anything that fire back and them and if you charge the unit good luck! Rad grenades and Psychotroke Grenades

Split fire only works on the sergeant. Turn one he is most liekly using scout from the Liber, but turn two he can give the unit split fire.

I only watched one of his games but his rules queries were on the border of stupidity, and he slow played extensively. I played Defranza at the Nova invitational and he took the loss graciously when I played him, however this game I could see he was getting very annoyed with some of the stuff Tim was trying to pull.

The list is certainly effective, however it isn't quite as durable as say a seer council or a screamer council. I do like that list and have been playtesting something very similar. Kudos either way on the win, but perhaps next time cut the crap and get on with the game

-Alex

bogalubov wrote:Which part of that list is unconventional?

The 5 HQs? Coteaz? Or the psychic powers that help it destroy seer councils and ignore all other rules of the game?

At first I thought that a winning marines list would halt the call for tournament comp/reform, then I realized that this is another iteration of a cheese dick death star that aims to abuse battle brothers and the inquistion codex.

I think it's about time we started to hate the players or change the game.

Sigh, Tim comes up with a clever anti-meta build, pilots it to victory over 32 of the best players in the USA, and gets maligned as 'another iteration of a cheese dick deathstar'.

In the Grim Darkness of the 6th Edition, there is only whine.

Let me spell it out for you, since you seem pretty muddle-headed about what a tournament is about... it's about bringing your a-game, and whatever the rules allow. There is no such thing as 'abuse' because everyone has access to the SAME RULES.

His list is creative and unique. He played his way through a tough field and won. He deserves credit where credit is due.

Gornall wrote:I really want to find out how that Marine list works! Congrats to everyone, especially Tim!

CMs and friends join the centurions, they kill deathstars or anything else that gets in the way.

bogalubov wrote:Creative doesn't mean non-abusive. Plus using inquisition and especially Coteaz does not scream innovation to me.

Much has been made about the cyclical nature of 40k tournament lists and the eventual rise of the next cheese. But I don't think that we need to sit back and wait while hoping that some new broken combo or D weapons will deliver us from evil. Just because that is how the game progressed in the past does not make it the best way to the future.

My problem with the current top lists is that they seek to remove the participation of the other player. If players feel compelled to bring these lists because that is the only way to compete perhaps the rules need to be changed.

There isn't such thing as abuse in 40k tournaments. You use the best tools given to you.

I'm pretty sure both participants participated quite thoroughly in their games.

I'm still unsure what kind of list do you want people to bring. Mass tactical squads? Massed grots? Some sort of Rogue-Trader style army?

bogalubov wrote:My overall point is that we need to stop waiting for new broken rules or combos to advance the game.

GW has created a universe and model set that they're telling us to go forth and enjoy. That means getting together and deciding how best to create an enjoyable tournament game.

I'm pretty sure all the players who traveled to attend the INVITATIONAL tournament did so because they enjoyed it.

Blackmoor wrote:People have been talking about the Centurion deathstar for a while now.

It is just another deathstar in deathstar 40K

What, precisely, is wrong with deathstar 40k? Do you really demand military realism from your fictional space-opera toy game?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

KillswitchUK wrote:


Split fire only works on the sergeant. Turn one he is most liekly using scout from the Liber, but turn two he can give the unit split fire.

I only watched one of his games but his rules queries were on the border of stupidity, and he slow played extensively. I played Defranza at the Nova invitational and he took the loss graciously when I played him, however this game I could see he was getting very annoyed with some of the stuff Tim was trying to pull.

The list is certainly effective, however it isn't quite as durable as say a seer council or a screamer council. I do like that list and have been playtesting something very similar. Kudos either way on the win, but perhaps next time cut the crap and get on with the game

-Alex

Split fire USR gives one model from the unit of the players choice, it's not limited to the sarge. Look it up.

I think you'd be surprised by the durability of a unit of two CMs with 2+ saves, 3++, FNP and IWND. Council has no way of getting FNP and has only a 4++ rerollable against AP2, as well as T4. Since Seer Councils / Beastpacks lack reliable AP2 weaponry, the Gravstar is just as durable against them Screamerstars obviously are invulnerable with a 2++ but don't quite have the damage or shooting needed to compete in tier 1. The one weakness is the lack of Hit and Run in the Gravstar, however all those ICs in combat pack a pretty hefty punch.

"Split fire only works on the sergeant"

Sergeant has split fire special rule, and when one model has it everyone in the unit has it. Though only one person in the unit can use it.