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 Sir Arun wrote:

Also, in regards to the GK debate, Mat Ward raped the fluff. I believe "mind wiping" was his idea.

I am 100% certain it was mentioned in the background section of the 5th (or maybe even 4th) edition rulebook that space marines who encountered demons were automatically mind wiped afterwords (and normal humans were killed). Since where demons go Grey Knights seem to follow it doesn't seem to far fetched to assume that contact with the GK would be a reasonable indicator that a men in black moment is in your near future.

 changerofways wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
It was cheesy from the start.

Say hello to Mr. Vendetta.

Yeah I'd agree it started going bad with the Vendetta

That's hardly anybody's fault, it was a moderate Fast Skimmer in 5th, it was 6th that turned it into the monster it is. This also isn't GW's fault, they turned anything that looked like it should go 'Nyeeeeowm' into a flyer and the Vendetta was one of those.

I thought the ONLY two things they turned into flyers was the Stormraven, Nightscythe, and the Vendetta.
So only IG, Necrons, BA, and GK go a flyer just from an update.
Then they did a special flyer release, which gave orks and C:Sm a flyer.
So right at the drop of 6th only 6 armies had access to this meta changing event.
Yeah. I think I can blame GW for that.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I thought the ONLY two things they turned into flyers was the Stormraven, Nightscythe, and the Vendetta.
So only IG, Necrons, BA, and GK go a flyer just from an update.
Then they did a special flyer release, which gave orks and C:Sm a flyer.
So right at the drop of 6th only 6 armies had access to this meta changing event.
Yeah. I think I can blame GW for that.

The Dark Eldar supersonics became flyers as well.

And Tyranid and Daemons FMC.

 dementedwombat wrote:

I am 100% certain it was mentioned in the background section of the 5th (or maybe even 4th) edition rulebook that space marines who encountered demons were automatically mind wiped afterwords (and normal humans were killed). Since where demons go Grey Knights seem to follow it doesn't seem to far fetched to assume that contact with the GK would be a reasonable indicator that a men in black moment is in your near future.

May well be but I think the whole chaos experience mind wiping and slaughter has been around ages, doesn't Grimnar get his knickers in a twist about it at Armageddon 1: The Armageddoning?

Also "turning your blades" on an ally does not make it sound like the sisters gave their blood up willingly to me if that is the quote.
People may not like Wards fluff but it's still there as part of the setting now. Some of it you can take as propaganda as sweep to one side a little if it makes you really hate it but it's still there. Personally I preferred it when marines had a rougher edge rather than the shining space knights we increasingly see today but hey, what can you do.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I thought the ONLY two things they turned into flyers was the Stormraven, Nightscythe, and the Vendetta.
So only IG, Necrons, BA, and GK go a flyer just from an update.
Then they did a special flyer release, which gave orks and C:Sm a flyer.
So right at the drop of 6th only 6 armies had access to this meta changing event.
Yeah. I think I can blame GW for that.

8 armies. FMC Demon Princes (CSM+ Demons), Hive Tyrants (Nids), Deldar flyer, Vendetta, Stormraven, Nightscythe...
So half of the armies had access to this special, meta-breaking event. That's not bad in my opinion.
And, did you really expect GW to release special flyer models for every single army in advance, they literally just turned anything that looked like a plane into a flyer and said 'that's that', or of course, anything with wings.
So no, you can't.

FMC aren't in the same category to me. You can ground a FMC afterall and FMC don't start off flying and don't have to start off in reserves.

But if we went with the "everything with wings" approach, then why wasn't the Skyray given skyfire options at the turn of 6th. Why didn't things that were anti-air units in fluff and look get skyfire?

Even then half of the armies out there. How is that justified? Half of the armies are allowed to set the meta and the other half have to find ways around it with a single AA fortification.

It's entirely GW's responsibility and I still can blame them. It's a rock, paper, scissor game. You introduce a 4th thing, like fire, which ties with rock, melts scissor, and burns paper. It is entirely stupid to introduce an element that there is no available counter for at the time.

Let's not forget that for a while FMCs didn't even have Skyfire, on top of being slower, generally much more expensive, and subject to grounding tests.