Switch Theme:

Objective Secured Vs Non-Scoring Denial Units.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




Ontario, Canada

Now you're spouting nonsense.
Lets break this down since you're being SO picky about wording that you feel it's necessary to go to the extremes of any grammar issues our posters have.

Gargoyles must make use of the BRB rules for controlling objectives otherwise according to their rules they would be able to hold all objectives on the board at all times due to a lack of "range" value. Using these rules not only gives them a range, but also prevents them from controlling more than one objective at a time.

How to control an objective?
You control an objective if there is at least one model from one of your scoring units (or in this case non-scoring gargoyle units), and no models from enemy denial units within 3" of it.

This rule is twofold.
Firstly - in order to control an objective you need to have the unit you're claming is controlling it within 3" of it.
Secondly - There can be no denial units within 3" of it.
These rules are not dependent on each other. For instance scoring units can ALSO be denied by a unit with a special rule that allows them to deny.
Likewise, Denial units can ALSO deny units that have special rules that allow them to control objectives, unless specifically stated otherwise. This is evidenced in the rule quoted several times above that states denial units can contest objectives being held by "an enemy" unit. not just scoring units.

So to answer your question, no, denial units cannot contest all objectives at all times. Denial units use the rules for controlling objectives to give themselves a range, just as skyblight gargoyles do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/22 21:36:10


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Actually sky lights do not have a range. That is a broken rule currently, but one easily remedied

They control objectives. No ifs or buts there, they do not need to be a scoring unit, so the ENTIRE if... Clause is ignored. You already FO control the objective , so you have no need to move further along the rule. Meaning denial units are unimportant.

A sensible house rule is the 3" rule, but RAW they control one objective only (an independent rule to the rule stating how to control an objective for scoring units) and cannot be denied, except by another OS unit. Denial has no effectt
   
Made in ca
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




Ontario, Canada

as mentioned before, the TWO clauses for holding objectives are not dependent on each other. You may ignore the "if" part requiring a scoring unit, but the skyblight rule does not circumvent the "and" part requiring a denial unit not to be present.

Denial units have permission, and NOTHING in the skyblight rule takes that permission away. Denial units are specifically allowed to stop enemy units from controlling objectives, where as skyblights are only given the general ability to control objectives, and the specific ability to ignore scoring units. Specific trumps general.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Wrong. The if is the whole statement. If, and. You control objectives IF , and.

You already control the objective. So why are you reading the if, and part?

Oh, and something stating you already control an objective is more specific than a rule teeing you that you control if, and. You have already got the control objective status. Not find a way to deny it. You cannot

Raw eh score any single unit anywhere on the board. Anyone I know will play it with a 3" range. RAW is clear here, only by misreading an if (x AND y) clause as something else will you believe any differently
   
Made in ca
Foolproof Falcon Pilot




Ontario, Canada

Alright, I think it's time to let this thread die. No new information is surfacing anymore. I don't feel you've refuted my claim about the rule under "denial units" and you don't feel I've refuted your claim about skyblight being able to ignore the rules for scoring objectives completely, except for range and number of objectives. I believe at this point people will have enough information from the thread to make their own decision. Thanks for the debate, everyone! I'll try to summarize both sides to the best of my abilities in the OP, if I miss anything let me know!.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/23 16:45:23


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Indeed, it is difficult to explain how an if ( clause and clause) are two clauses that require you to be following the if in the first place. OS never follow the if, and are of denied as stated in their entry. That's it, rules as written wise.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: