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I'd like to point out that Sisters wear power armour. Artificer armour was only brought up to point out that thickness does not necessarily equal protective quality when discussing power armour. The idea being that Sister power armour is to Space Marine power armour what Artificer armour is to Terminator armour.

"Centuries to build" is an absurd number, anyway. It's a single suit of armour, not a whole Titan Legion.

Durability should also be considered. A Space Marine's armour might have more operational stamina than a Sister's due to the extra mass, even if they offer roughly equal protection.

 Ashiraya wrote:
It's from Dark Heresy: Ascension, so it's canon. Pages 143-144

Ignatus pattern power armours are all fine examples of Mechanicus artisans. Each of them are individuality crafted only for representatives of the Holy Inquisition. Of course not as durable as Adeptus Astartes power armours, the Ignatus-pattern is far better design than those sold to nobles, rogue traders and other agents of the Imperium. Like every other power armour variant, Ignatus too is made of thick ceramite armour plates and incorporated electro-muscles so the user can even use the power armour in the first place. The optional helmet protects the wearer from toxic gasses and allows the wearer to breathe underwater and even survive in vacuum as long as suit has power. The helmet has photo-visors so the user can see in the dark and an automatically closing visor renders blind-grenades useless against the wearer. It is also possible to use a backpack for the suit which acts as external power-source. With this power-backpack the wearer can use his armour for five continuous days in battle conditions.
Because the Inquisition often has to deal with Ruinous Powers and other heretical forces, Ignatus suits are commonly inlaid with hexagrammic wards.

The description makes sense and sounds like normal Power Armour, but I don't see how a suit with bare arms and leg sections could possibly have "electro-muscles" incorporated, or could allow the wearer to survive the vacuum of space.

the text is canon, the artwork is not because it obviously conflicts with what is written. And if there is one thing that is the most inconsistent in 40k, its the artwork. It's not the first time artwork does not match with what is written

I've gotta agree with Keep.

I can only assume that the elements shown in the artwork are not the full suit, just the primary plating.

Also "optional helmet" is amusing.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Since you are so certain of your case, I am sure you have plenty of sources specifically asserting that SoB have greater access to AA than Astartes do.

I do not have any. But you do not have any stating that they do not have access to AA, do you?
For 25 years, the space marines had not fluff mention of their AA tanks either. Or some of their flyers. Or the Centurion. Or the grav weapons. Or…

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
"Centuries to build" is an absurd number, anyway. It's a single suit of armour, not a whole Titan Legion.

Yeah, but the Ecclesiarchy wants the craftsmen to really, really get the feather of the eagle's wings on the shoulder-pad right. Each barb should be meticulously shaped.
Repeat for every detail, technical or aesthetical, of the armor. Unlike a Titan legion, it is going to be the ultimate masterwork of a very few select elite incredibly talented armor-smiths and artists, though, not billions of people.

 dusara217 wrote:
There simply are not enough Artificer Suits in the IoM to outfit the SoB with them - the cost alone would be such that entire Sectors would be left bereft of defense and would fall.

Faith can allow incredible feats. And, incidentally, push the Imperium's citizen to for even harder to pay their tithes to the Ecclesiarchy .

I think Ashiraya was referring to artificer armour rather than anti-air by "AA".

Oh. Well, then I should refer her to your message at the beginning of this page .

Funny, because the SM codex too says the Space Marines wear the best armour and most potent wargear known to man.

The rulebook, too.

Everyone is best. The IoM is like a school psychology program.

A couple of points.

First somebody said that they disagreed with a point based on logic. This is 40k throw all logic out the window. Very little things make sense from the WW2 "futuristic' tanks, to flying dumpsters to the common techno magic that makes melta weaponry work. Remember in this setting your car might not start because it's machine spirit is grumpy because you haven't washed and waxed it recently

The next thing I would like to address is that GW writes all factions to be special snowflakes. People who play X army want to feel like their army is cool/powerful/awesome so GW writes it that way. So yes every army is the best.

Finally, GW has decided that Sisters power armour offers the same protective quality as a Space Marine's as quoted in this thread. Whether you like it or not that is what GW has written.

As for the original question the OP asked yes Orks can loot anything and everything. Looting a set of power armour would be a rather simple task for any mek. Heck he might even improve on it (Mark. Lotz )

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It still calls it a civilian model, to differentiate it from real - which is to say Space Marine - models.

Historically, by every non-DH source, Sisters use Godwyn De'az pattern bolters, a slightly longer-barelled variant on the Godwyn pattern used by Space Marines.

which is backed up in the FFG supplements.

Designed specifi cally for the Adepta Sororitas, and blessed
by the Canonesses of the Orders, these venerated weapons
are presented to an Adepta Sororitas upon becoming a Battle
Sister. The Sisterhood considers the venerated Godwyn-De’az
bolt weapons heirlooms; each one carefully maintained by
highly specialized servitors and trusted servants. This pattern
bolter has great signifi cance to the Adepta Sororitas, not only
as a powerful weapon against the enemies of mankind, but
also as a symbol of the Emperor’s judgement and of the sisters
personal connection to her faith.

Ref: Blood of Martyrs page 114. no referance to civilian boltguns here

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

First somebody said that they disagreed with a point based on logic. This is 40k throw all logic out the window.

That is a complete fallacy. If there were absolutely no logic, a Fire Warrior could leap from T'au to Terra in a single bound, slap the Emperor with a volcano cannon she had in her pocket, then teleport to Iyanden and hammer-toss Fenris into the Eye of Terror.

"Machine spirit" is a method to explain "behaviours" of a machine by the backward, superstitious Imperium. Just as someone might say "my laptop/car/oven hates me" in real life, except in the Imperium they actually believe that. Most Imperial vehicles are poor design, but poor design does not mean no logic exists at all. Melta is explained by being extremely advanced technology. I don't know why you used melta as an example rather than any Eldar, Tau or Necron weapon, but they all fall under that, too.

GW may write factions to be special snowflakes, but the SoB armour fluff specifically mentions Space Marine power armour as a reference point. As far as I know, there are no sources that directly contradict that.

Space marine armour may be insanely bulky but its designed to keep going for months at a time, keep its user functioning in any environment, and can power/has emergency power and oxeygen, its armour, but also space suit and able to sustain its user.

Sob armour far as I know is protective but not designed to have same endurece

 Ashiraya wrote:
Funny, because the SM codex too says the Space Marines wear the best armour and most potent wargear known to man.

The rulebook, too.

Everyone is best. The IoM is like a school psychology program.

Isn't Terminator armour better? Or, y'know, Centurions?

Generalisation, termies, centurian, bolters, land raiders,and such are all produced by the best forges and tech priests, nothing like a million a reguler shipment las gun and flak armour, each one hand made by a skilled member of the mechanicous, blessed, and made from the highest quality materials available.

No expense is spared on marine equipment and transports.

 Matthew wrote:
After my recent epic failed Fandex, I want to flesh out some fluff, and for that I have a few questions:

Say a person with the same build and strength as a Marine stole parts of their power armour, would they be able to wear it? I'm talking about small parts, like pauldrons and greeves.

Could a person with the same build as a Marine use a Bolter without power armour?

Not really, the black caraspace has linkage nodes that link into powerarmour and make it responsive to the wearer. There are custom suits that some Non-SM's wear I.E. SoB and inquisitors, but they are pretty rare, and custom built.

If some random guy put on SM power armour, It wouldn't do anything but sit there with you in it.

Space Marine T4 comes from being a posthuman bioengineered bada**, not from the armor.

I'm with those who believe that human sized power armor protection is roughly the same as Space Marine power armor. It's clear that there is no strength augmentation for Sister Armor, while there is (in the fluff, not the game) for Space Marine armor. Presumably things like autosenses and bioelectric suit control (leading to higher relative agility) are more advanced in the Marine models.

I find it odd that anyone would suggest that there is no armor protection for the abdomen in Sister armor. Why anyone would leave such a vital and exposed area escapes me, particularly when the existing fluff and pics don't support that assumption.

After all, look at real earth pictures of armor over the ages. The first things protected are the head, chest and abdomen. When armor begins to decline in the Renaissance those are still protected. Even in the Napoleonic wars heavy cavalry still wears a helmet and breastplate that protects - you guessed it - the head, chest and abdomen.

OK, it's 40K and the rule of cool trumps any sensible considerations. But still.... the assumption of unprotected midriffs on Nunz wif Gunz is not supported by fluff or pics.

Armor that mimics human anatomy is a thing in 40K, y'know. Sorta like in classical Greece and Rome. Just look at Sanguinary Guard and their legendary nipples.

My two teef.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
It's clear that there is no strength augmentation for Sister Armor

There definitely is. Else they could not carry heavy bolters, for instance. They are strong, but not that strong.
What they lack is the “Recycle your own piss” aspects of the marine armor. Sisters needs to find something else to drink .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
It's clear that there is no strength augmentation for Sister Armor

There definitely is. Else they could not carry heavy bolters, for instance. They are strong, but not that strong.
What they lack is the “Recycle your own piss” aspects of the marine armor. Sisters needs to find something else to drink .

pretty much. space marine armor isn't JUST armor, it's also essentially a self contained life support system. I suspect that SoBs don't have those features

Correct. The standard suit of Sisters PA lacks a lot of the extra bells and whistles and gubbins that provide functions that a Space Marine might need on deployment... simply because the Sisters do not fill the same mission parameters as Space Marines. They don't need them. They have your pretty standard stuff, low-light vision, targeting reticules, built-in commo, gas-mask and such... but all the advanced optics, waste-recycling, never-ending power supply, auto-injecting drug packs, bio-monitor systems, etc etc etc...

The Sisters don't need that. They're not typically a military force that operates without support elements.

I assumed the T4 was based on the individual being beneath the armour, not the armour itself? In which case of course a bio-engineered giant would have a higher Toughness score than a normal human.

Edit: Er... ignore this, I guess. I didn't realize there were several pages of discussion still to go.



Oh, and I wouldn't recommend using artwork as a source. Although it's not as bad as bikini armour, the other usual fantasy-female-armour impracticality for the sake of fanservice (such as the boobplate and corset, all designed to say "LOOK AT THIS! IT'S FEMALE!" even though anyone who knows anything about real armour knows how HORRIBLY IMPRACTICAL that would be) still applies. It's best to just ignore the art design completely if it's not explicitly addressed in the fluff (in this case, I'm pretty darn sure the fluff never gave an explanation, justification, acknowledgement, or even hand-wave of the various impractical-fantasy-female-armour tropes present in SoB armour). Slap it under the same category as "some of the people don't have helmets in artwork" if you have to.

The boobplate is probably accurate in-setting, too. Remember, the Sisters are the Ecclesiarchy's militant arm because they're the only military the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to have. After Vandire's Reign of Blood, the Decree Passive restricted them from having "men under arms". So the Ecclesiarchy kept the women under arms they'd maintained since Vandire's rise to power.

The armor is *meant* to be overtly feminine. It is, in a sense, the Ecclesiarchy thumbing its nose at the Decree Passive... or, alternately, the Ecclesiarchy demonstrating that it is abiding by the letter of the law.

 Psienesis wrote:
The boobplate is probably accurate in-setting, too. Remember, the Sisters are the Ecclesiarchy's militant arm because they're the only military the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to have. After Vandire's Reign of Blood, the Decree Passive restricted them from having "men under arms". So the Ecclesiarchy kept the women under arms they'd maintained since Vandire's rise to power.

The armor is *meant* to be overtly feminine. It is, in a sense, the Ecclesiarchy thumbing its nose at the Decree Passive... or, alternately, the Ecclesiarchy demonstrating that it is abiding by the letter of the law.

The fluff never explicitly mentions that, though, IIRC. That's an explanation the fans made up.

Like I said, the fluff doesn't seem to even acknowledge it's there at all. I'm pretty sure if one were to only go by the words of the fluff and the artworks (and models. ...hey, models are art!) didn't exist at all, we'd never know they had corsets or boob plate in the first place (well, besides perhaps some novels giving physical descriptions of them. I don't recall if they did or not)

I could be wrong on all of this, of course. I don't collect sister fluff pieces.

If I'm right though, my point stands. Until the fluff acknowledges it, you're better off just ignoring it for the same reason you should ignore all those guys going around without helmets (and heck, extend it to the ludicrousness of the tank designs). It's best to not use artworks and art designs for fluff justifications unless acknowledged otherwise, IMHO. The purpose of the art and art design is probably to look awesome (or some variant thereof), not to establish in-universe physical laws.

The fluff definitely mentions the Decree Passive and the "Men under arms" stricture of it, however.

See, the explanation that I personally find far more believable is that when Thor went to the Fabricator General to commission ten thousand new sets of armour for the Adepta Sororitas, the FG squinted at him, told him he'd only just given the Ecclesiarchy ten thousand sets of womens' power armour, and that he'd be stuck with Vandire's design.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
See, the explanation that I personally find far more believable is that when Thor went to the Fabricator General to commission ten thousand new sets of armour for the Adepta Sororitas, the FG squinted at him, told him he'd only just given the Ecclesiarchy ten thousand sets of womens' power armour, and that he'd be stuck with Vandire's design.

Come to think about it, IIRC, the fluff does say that Vandire used the Brides of the Emperor for "singing, dancing, and other more 'exotic' skills". (it's also of note that he renamed them from "Daughters of the Emperor" to the more sexual "Brides of the Emperor" in the first place)

.........................now THAT'S a friggin' Grimdark (in the "OMG that's @#$@#$ed up and disturbing" kind of way) explanation for their armour design. Course, this is the same faction with Sisters Repentia so that flavor of grimdark would probably fit right in.

It is known that Vandire gave the Brides to other cronies as mistresses and concubines.

 Psienesis wrote:
It is known that Vandire gave the Brides to other cronies as mistresses and concubines.

I was not aware of that bit - he definately had them performing for him - singing, dancing, and other more 'exotic' skills but others ?

The Schola Program was also heavily abused in this way but thats seperate

Hence the change from "Daughters of" to "Brides of".

 Psienesis wrote:
Hence the change from "Daughters of" to "Brides of".

Indeed - just don't recall any refrence to Vandire sharing his "toys" - ?

The Owner/Manager of my FLGS converted Centurions into looted Ork stuff.