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I like rolling 60 shoota shots just not as snapshots for no effect.
Now BS2 on the other hand... thats ded killy. In much the same way I love the 5++ from rolling scrap pile but think ramshakle's "6+" is a waste of time
Added the ability to reroll to-hit against immobilized targets for a wrekking ball. A slight nod towards taking a grabbing klaw
Automatically Appended Next Post: Changed Ghazzy adding Crusader but removed +1 LD and reduced d3 HOW hits to 1. Crusader for all orks needs some serious thought and playtesting. It is a very powerful rule for us indeed.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/12 07:58:58
AP starts at 5, then every turn the AP lowers by 1, so Turn 2, its 4, and by turn 4 its AP2.
I did consider starting at 4 and reducing, but that seems quite strong, AP2 by turn 3.
Fluff being; That as they unload there enormous gunz, as the battle wages on the power cores become more and more unstable, the gunz get hotter and hotter firing ever increasing deadly rounds.
Alternate take:
The weapons have gets hot! AP starts at 4, but Gets hot increases while AP decreases. Making them like a murder machine that will kill themselves, but you get the trade off of utilising them while they are strong to smash the right target.
Alternate take 2: Random AP, but for a +X points they gain Thermal rounds;
Once per game the flash gitz may elect to fire thermal rounds - (AP2) - Have Gets Hot! on a 1 or 2, the gun explodes automatically killing the flash git, but the shot still counts as hitting.
So in effect you get to elect to utilise their deadliness at detriment to themselves. Your likely to decimate your target (hitting on a 1,2,5 and 6) but on a 1 or 2 you also kill the git.
Thoughts?
I think Gitz need to not be a random unit, but also not a standard unit with fixed features. They need something that makes them flashy where they truly unleash hell with their shooting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/12 11:51:33
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
I like the idea of AP stacking up.
But they should overheat when it reaches ap2 or even ap1.
What about it stucking not on game turns but every round they performed a shooting attack? Maybe it should even include overwatch Like a sign: if you wana charge those guyz, make sure none survives.
On the other hand, it takes away their alpha-strike potential. It means they can't be ap3 or ap2 emidiately.
What do you think bout Ghazzy? Think we should increase his pt cost to 250 at very least with crusader. 250 IS enormous ammount of pts. But so is Crusader an enormous buff for us.
In the end, Ghazzy got 4++, nice potent HOW with ap2 and concussive, Handy LD buffs - Effigy and Stubborn for more remoted squads, he became Relentless and makes every model with megaarmour in his squad relentless - a nod towards megaarmor retinue - means they can run normally and that he's even fieldable footslogging! Even with a bunch of footslogging megaobz if needed. And he also grants all the orks Crusader once per game on his awesome WAAAAGH! No more 2++ though, so, he's not as durable on-demand. Whew, that's a huge amount of buffs. I hope the 250 price tag is justified.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2015/05/12 19:41:46
Furious Charge is a good rule for Orks as it emphasizes their aggression and momentum - boyz wreck face on the charge but are far less dangerous in subsequent phases or if charged themselves
'eavy armour @ 2pts is a winner in my books. Maybe more for Nobz but then again who takes non-biker/Mega Nobz?
Dunno if I suggested it already but the above post reminded me - instead of just Meks as those "free" HQ, how about different HQ options unlock different free choices? If you have a Big Mek then any free choice can be a Mek. If you have a Painboss then you can get painboyz. If you have a Warboss you get solo Nobz, and then maybe Warpheads are the HQ psyker and Weirdboyz a weaker free choice version?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/13 23:22:13
2 pts for 'eavy armor is just too cheap. Current 4 pts is perfectly reasonable. 2 pts 'eavy armor would have been auto-include even on footsloggas. While 'eavy armor for 4 pts is mostly used on trukkboyz or some outflanking squads if you plan on any. Variety! It's also fluffy as most footslogging boyz avoid 'eavy armor.
Flash gitz shouldn't gave access to 'eavy weapons as this way they'd just be better shooty nobz. The only reason they're priced not much higher than nobz is their inability to take special mellee weapons.
Mek per Big mek and Dok per Painboss is allready present in the change list from the start
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/14 05:29:48
I reckon this fandex could be a good starting point for the Ork errata. Not certain if the more sweeping changes (ie Lootas) would be appropriate (and not sure that they wouldn't either) but the points, gear and army rule adjustments certainly seem right on the money
I'm not sure if every psycher should have access to every school. IG psychers, ork wierdboyz - all with access to invisibility. And greentide + levitate = 2 turn guaranteed charge. Nope, i don't think it's right. Besides, i generally don't mind 2+ rerollable as it's not too gamebreaking. It was too powerful in 6-th with deathstars but time has changed and unkillable 1000 pt deathstars can be countered with regular msu stuff just fine due to maelstorm.
Anywayz, there are some good suggestions there.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2015/05/15 08:54:37
Fateweaver
Tzeench Chariot [with a flamer/lazcannon guy inside]
Tzeench Chariot [with a flamer/lazcannon guy inside]
14 Pink Horrors
3 Nurgling Swarms
10 Screamers
10 Screamers
Tzeench DP with a hell lota random stuff
Slaanesh DP with a hell lota random stuff
Here's a brief batrep:
Spoiler:
There are lots of details but i'll go through the main ones. We roll the 6-th maelstorm mission with vanguard deployment and diminishing objectives from 6 to 1, nightfight, i deploy first and reserve kommandoes, he reserves 10 screamers to deepstrike them. He steals ini. He got lots of random stuff - the most significant of which were flashbane, armorbane to tzeench DP, 4+ fnp and Lash to Slaanesh DP, lots of psy powers like molten beam (that he for some reason never uses but that i fear a lot due to half my army being composed of vehicles. It forced me to spread out my squadrons out of KFF range), Invisibility, Endurance and other stuff.
First turn he mainly moves, buffs everything flies around and does a couple wounts to koptas here and there with psy powers, scores a few VP.
My first turn - i shoot everything at Screamers but with 3+ cover (jink + nf) and reroll 1-s + a reroll from fate, i manage to deal just 2 or 3 wounds.
Second turn. Screamers don't arrive. 2 Chariots arrive in my backlines together with outflanking nurglings and deal 1 wound to a jinking Kopta. He lands a Tzeench DP buffing him with invisibility. He wrecks Big Mek's Trukk for First Blood with Fateweaver's flickering fire that does amazing 4 pens and 3 glances - 7 shots, all hit, all 5-s and 6-s. And than diminishes a squad to just Big mek, Nob and two boyz with other psy powers and flat-outing screamers. Slaanesh DP finishes off a Kopta with psy shreik and flies over Deff dreads to deal 4 HP shooting mighty lash of Slaanesh (2d6 shots) out of his ass (360 degrees firing ark, yay).
My second turn. Kommandoes don't arrive. I flatout boss on an objective close to his backlines, move kanz closer to screamers and deal a lot of wounds with grotzookas and bigshootas reducing the squad to 3 screamers which will result in a failed charge later on. Morkanaught forces 2 chariots to jink (as it's a superheavy now and can shoot at different targets) but does nothing. Later on i'll find out that jinking chariots don't affect his ability to shoot torrents and lazcannons out of it with a rider...yay once again. Gits miss all their shots aimed at Fateweaver. A 1-wound kopta kills 1 nurgling and charges them dealing a wound and 1 more with instability. +1 to fear tests from Mob Rule helps out this time as i rolled 8 for it.
Third turn. Screamers don't arrive. He wrecks warbosse's truck with an ass lash, deals a bunch of wounds here and there, wrecks 2 kanz. Fateweaver perils and grounds himself - even with reroll - close to the remaining of Big Mek's squad. Kills 1 boy with something - the squad's reduced to Big Mek, Nob and 1 boy. He charges 2 remaining Deff dreads with an invisible Tzeench DP. They deal 1 wound with overwatching Skorchas but it gets saved. Thanks to 5+ Ramshakkle on the closer one, 2 out of 3 pens are reduced to glances, so he deals a total of 4 HP wrekking one and leaving a lone deff dread with 1 HP left. Dread misses the invisible DP. 3 screamers charge big mek and nob, kill 1 boy and get eliminated in return with some lucky strikes from a choppa nob, killsaw big mek and instability. Mek and nob consolidate towards Fateweaver.
My third turn. Kommandoes don't arrive. Boss calls WAAAAAAAAAAGH! Runs and charges horrors, badrukk and gits disembark, run and multicharge 1 Chariot and nurglings. Kanz deal a wound to Fateweaver but don't manage to charge him. Big mek and nob make it to Fateweaver. Naught charges a Tzeench DP that's fighting a half-dead deff dread. Boss and boyz eliminate horrors, Badruk and Gits deal a few wounds to nurglings but a chariot herald saves 4 out of 4 wounds, so they're stuck. 4+ armor helps to avoid losses. Tzeench DP with armorbane Murderises a naught before it manages to strike back. Youch. 6 attacks, 6 hits, 5 pens and a glance. Overkill. However, a Catastrophic explosion (which is always a 1 for naughts) manages to deal a wound to DP. Dread misses once again. Big mek and Nob fight Fateweaver, nob challenges and does 2 wounds! Than gets smashed. Big Mek finishes off Fatey.
Fourth turn. Screamers arrive via deepstrike but mishap and are delayed. Slaanesh DP wrecks 1 more kan, Tzeench DP finishes off a dread and consolidates towards a point somewhere close to the board edge that he needs to score. He shoots Big mek with a lazcannon chariot but misses and decides to charge. Unexpectedly, he kills off Big mek with hammer of wraith and a few attacks - even with 2+ armor and 5+ fnp (from shots at the squad with flickering fires and flamers). Consolidates on a point. Gits take a few wounds but finish off a chariot herald and deal a wound to a nurgling. No instability wounds, however.
My fourth turn. Kommandoes arrive and score a point that a Tzeench DP is heading to. Kanz move towards a DP but deal no wounds with shooting thanks to armor and 4+++. The last trukk moves close to a chariot that's sitting on a point that we both need - it's not far from where Badrukk and co are about to finish off the last nurgling. Badrukk and co deal an amazing 0 wounds to a nurgling with their 19 total attacks, so it's a tie.
Fifth turn. Screamers arrive and flatout on a point to score a VP. Tzeench DP buffs himself with Invis and heads towards kommandoes. He attempts to charge them and Kommandoes deal 2 unsaved wounds on overwatch! DP fails to make it there. Slaanesh DP wrecks another kan and deals a HP to another one - just 2 with 1 HP each are left. Than charges and finishes them off. Chariot deals 2 HP to a trukk, and once again 5+ ramshakkle helps to reduce 1 pen to glance. Than The chariot finishes off a truck in mellee. The nurgling is finally squished.
Fifth turn. I finally decide to count up VP as it was not a primary concern for a test game, but it's interesting nonetheless. And it happens to be Orks: 12, Daemons:13. Gits shoot a jinking chariot to no effect and charge it, loosing one on overwatch but killing it in mellee and scoring the point that i need making it 13-13. Boss and boyz spread out a bit to deny his Scremers a point that he might need if the game continues. Kommandoes move towards a Tzeench DP and charge it. Remember, it lost 1 Wound from an exploding Naught and 2 from overwatching kommandoes? So, they finish off an invisible dp with a good old choppa hit!
We roll off and the game finishes. I get 1 VP for linebreaker and he doesn't get 1 thanks to kommandoes. The game's over and orks barely made it 14-13.
So, here are my thoughts on the changes:
Killchoppa and DSS: didn't really have an opportunity to see it in action where it'd matter - against a dp, for example. Needs further playtesting.
Tellyporta - didn't have chance to test it but i hope it's changed to good. Being able to shoot an ap2 blast in addition to another weapon is really good - especially for orkses. Might be one of the reasons to take megamek in the first place. I even start to think that 15 pts is too cheap for it as sm terminators get 2 shoulder rokkit shots for 40 pts (?). On the other hand, it's a unique weapon. I'm torn between pricing it 15 or 20 pts.
Badrukk and Gits - the shooting is still not super great but preferred enemy helps a bit. 4+ armor is good. They did the majority of their stuff in mellee cause the only unsaved ranged wound they've managed to pull off was with 1-st turn shooting at jinking screamers where 6 out of 7 wounds have been saved. However, i think, they're fine now.
Snikrot and kommandoes - didn't have an opportunity to see their full potential this game, so needs further playtesting.
Morkanaught - hard to say here. It got 1-shot with a DP. To be honest, i expected it to do more KFF range is so low.. Maybe it can be fine against armies without beams and anti-tank blasts. It didn't manage to do anything other than force a few jinks that didn't affect anything and 1 wound with explosion. However, i'm sure that it can shine in other games - it was just a wrong matchup for a naught. Needs further playtesting. BTW, what do you think about the KFF? Maybe it needs some changes too?
Deff dreads. Squadron does help a lot. Still didn't do much but at least kept a murderous DP occupied for a bit. I think they can shine in other matchups. Ramshakkle and Extra armor is nice for them. So is stikkbomb chukka that has it's uses.
Killa Kanz. Now i'm happy here. 6+ ramshakkle and 35 pt cost is just what they should have been all along. Not weak, not ott - just good.
All in all, i'm happy with the results yet but it needs further playtesting.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2015/05/18 10:27:40
Needs further playtesting. BTW, what do you think about the KFF? Maybe it needs some changes too?
Would pay more to give it the old "units" instead of "models" rule. Same way I'd pay more for Orks if they just got fearless over mob rule - less fiddling around, pointless rolling etc
I'd not like it to be on per-squad base. That's the reason nid's malantropes (or how are those spore things callsed) are so annoting. Cause 1 model can protect half the army. Don't want orks to be annoying.
Now back to KFF. I think that 5++ is fine for it. However, either the price is a bit too high or the radius is too low. For my taste. If it was like 9" it'd be a more common sight even for footsloggas i think.
BTW what do you think about a grabbing klaw? Just noticed you can no longer take them on trukks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/19 04:09:01
koooaei wrote: I'd not like it to be on per-squad base. That's the reason nid's malantropes (or how are those spore things callsed) are so annoting. Cause 1 model can protect half the army. Don't want orks to be annoying.
Now back to KFF. I think that 5++ is fine for it. However, either the price is a bit too high or the radius is too low. For my taste. If it was like 9" it'd be a more common sight even for footsloggas i think.
BTW what do you think about a grabbing klaw? Just noticed you can no longer take them on trukks.
Definitely overcosted or underpowered. It really can be either, I like overcosted and think it is fairly priced at 35-40pts.
Units within 6" is definitely annoying and can really draw some much needed flack like the KFF of old. Its definitely got to be Models, its just a matter of Range and Price. I think 50pts for 9" is fair, or 6" for 35/40pts.
I continue to roll poorly for Git's shooting. 2 hits out of 15 with bs3 and rerolling ones, eh. So, they continue to kick enemy in mellee with snazzguns beint more of a distraction to the opponent rather than an effective weapon. But that's just my rolling with them. I compensate their shooting with rolling an amazing ammount of 4+ saves They feel fine for what they do in Elites.
Naught was great but i had to shy away from rushing at more scary mellee stuff with it. He still dies pretty fast to anything with good AT capabilities but i'm fine with that. The buff apears to be significant and the naught is acting somewhat decent in the end. Stomps were great against small bugs. However, KFF continues to be more of a first turn protection baube as spreading out + board controle tends to be more important than just 5++ for models within 6" And even 3-dread squadrons are hard to fit there. Don't really know if KFF is worth the points - must face a shooty army (but without AT blasts) to find out.
Kanz were decent once again. They're quite squishy and not overly amazing in mellee but shooty and cheap enough to be a solid roadblock.
Deff dreads also did fine.
We played just 3 turns cause had no more time, so, didn't manage to test kommandoes once again. They tend to not leave reserves the whole game for me
'eadwompa and DSS were also quite viable. I glanced my own truck with DSS, btw. It was hilarious!
Anywayz, i'm happy with the changes so far. Will need to test Ghazzy next time. I have a feeling he'd be a true centerpiece of a footslogging army.
I asked the opponent what he thinks about the changes and he said he liked them. Nothing overpowered and added variety. Made him want to implement some changes to his beloved nids. He had a great idea of implementing something like power from pain that represents nid's adaptation on the battlefield. 1-st turn nothing, 2-d turn adaptation to terrain - moving faster, 3-d turn adaptation to gunfire - some durability buff, etc. We both agreed fmc spam needs to be nerfed and footslogging swarms need a buff.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2015/05/20 06:12:10
KFF wagon? That could be interesting. At the same time, don't want to make regular KFF not viable. It still has some uses vs shooty less mobile oponents.
KFF wagon sounds like a FW thing, btw. They tend to do this kind of stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/20 07:13:55
BTW, we still have a looted wagon and stompa left in codex. And i think it's time to take a look at formations and Ghazzy detachment rules that desperately need a change. Also, some artifact rework.
Played with walkers once again and am happy with how they perform.
Gits proceed to be better in mellee than with shooting - even with Badrukk. Probably, the shooty meta has escalated so much that a bunch of s5 shots with medium range and without ignore cover and guaranteed low ap are not that frightening. While a bunch of s4-5 mellee attacks are not that bad. Anywayz, a slight point drop and 'eavy armor and elite status has made gits somewhat viable.
Will try to test Ghazzy next but have a deficite of time with my part time job after the main time job.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/26 10:38:38
Like a sign: if you wana charge those guyz, make sure none survives.
