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 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Well if GW wanted to kill competitive play than the Eldar codex was definitely the way to go it seems. Im just glad I know how to work things out prior to playsing people. I have a necron friend that in the sport of his special characters we sometimes add rules to them. Like Orikan the Diviner found some way to make immortals even more sturdy and gives all immortals a further +1 RP (breaking the maximum 4+ rule) that are within 12" of Orikan. It makes them pretty tough to kill I'll tell you that.

I played a 2v2 the same day this event happened. it was my Orks with a Necron Player vs a Tau/IG army. The Necron player's models must have eaten more bullets that day then my orks could have in 3 games :-P the wraiths and Destroyers just kept getting roll after roll. It was amazing to watch and it made me fear playing a necron player a bit more :-P

Necrons are straight up gross. Glad my lgs only has one necron player. Their basic troop durability is stupid

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I will give you this, I am extremely negative about the Eldar codex because it is broken and OP. Ive had a friend who plays Eldar point out things to me besides the Scatterbike and WK spam and its just broken. Firedragons comes to mind right away. but anyway.

Again, vitriol and adjectives are near meaningless. Go to some numbers. "Broken and OP" need context.

And yeah, my thread on Destroyer versus the old Distort really shows a *big* power boost, now. It is a more powerful army, my number crunching showed that. But 'broken and OP' are hard to quantify. Where does one draw the line?

Still, like GW prints in the RB, bend, break and play how you want.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I am not over reacting to the Codex,

Kindly, yes, you are.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I didn't back out of the tournament I actually received a phone call saying "tournies off were down to 7 or 8" so I was a bit bummed. I had prepared a really good list and I had hoped to try it.

I completely agree with you. I would have been yelling, "Noo!" into the phone and calling my buddies immediately after to get them to change their minds. No, no, I was citing that your other participants had bailed out.

My only personal ... comment? ... assertion? at you, is to please, get your group together, agree on a rules set of nerfs and play.

I'd like to ask you to stop complaining about it. However, (no sarcasm) I'd be a hypocritical douche and will not ask you to stop. I'm a big believer in the First Amendment.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
our TO did take steps to neutralize Eldar shenanigans but he didn't do much more then limiting it to 1 LoW regardless of Detachments and what not and that was about it.

Then push him to do more. I mean, you guys not paying the entry fee is hurting their business, he'll bend to your will. Ours works with us on what we like and what is stupid.

Hell, PM me your store's number/name. Let's make it happen. Again, seriously.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
So don't view this as my personally attacking ALL Eldar everywhere, this was a very specific individual who acted like an arse and when nobody would play his tourny list (because we all brought Fluff lists) he got upset and started getting rather uppity with people. Now granted, Im kind of a dick myself once someone acts like that, after years of having to put uppity little pricks in their place it is rather hard for me to turn that part of my past off. regardless we were polite with him up until then and he refused to take the hint and eventually left.

I don't take it so ... I think. I just would rather see/read that a problem was solved (like telling that TFG to zark-off) rather than the continued eldar hate.

When the next book comes out, will it be SM hate? Not you, Ghaz, specifically, but it'll be someone.

You missed the Mat Ward Hate-Train! Aww, see, if you'd been in 40k for his GK, Blood Angels and Necrons ... well , I think you'd have a better perspective on this phenomena of new book release, Internet blow-up ... and then time passing.

Anybody you know even remember Psyfileman-Dreads?

 Ghazkuul wrote:
IF tomorrow I go to the game store with my tournament list and a Eldar player is their with his Decurion shenanigans i'll gladly try it out for S&G and to study the eldar tactics. So please stop insinuating that this was me bashing EVERY ELDAR PLAYER! because again, one of my buddies is Eldar and is a great guy :-p

Right again, and I apologize. I failed to make myself clear. It's not you 'bashing EVERY ELDAR PLAYER' (caps for quotation).

It's bashing the book. Bashing it for the harm it will do to the hobby and the meta. Especially in the hands of a douche, like the TFG you refused to play.

That's what I'm after. To get you to stop bashing the book.

Guns should not be bashed. Marijuana shouldn't be bashed. Nuclear science shouldn't be bashed. Psyfleman-Dreads should not be bashed.

People who do stupid things with guns, nukes, marijuana and spamming Psy-Dreads should be bashed.

TOs who fail to nerf Invisibility, 2+ rerollables, and goodness knows what else GW spits out, those folks need bashing.

Smart folks use guns, drugs, and science wisely. Smart folks will curtail decurion detachments, the eldar formations, and other things, so games have the balance and playability that works for the players.

Be that smart guy.

That's what I'm after. To get you to stop bashing the book.

Guns should not be bashed. Marijuana shouldn't be bashed. Nuclear science shouldn't be bashed. Psyfleman-Dreads should not be bashed.

People who do stupid things with guns, nukes, marijuana and spamming Psy-Dreads should be bashed.

TOs who fail to nerf Invisibility, 2+ rerollables, and goodness knows what else GW spits out, those folks need bashing.

Smart folks use guns, drugs, and science wisely. Smart folks will curtail decurion detachments, the eldar formations, and other things, so games have the balance and playability that works for the players.

...What!? I can understand most of your post, but whats with the vast strangeness of the rest of it.

Traditio wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
So because you think that 1. Spending a lot of money on a game and 2. Games being played competitively are wrong, there's something wrong with the world and that something is wrong with those people...

What could possibly justify spending $140 on an imperial knight? Seriously. Give me a list of reasons why someone would buy one. For every reason you list, I will be able to tell you why there's something wrong with that person.

Also what's your point about the sun and the earth thing..?

The fact that A believes B generally doesn't tell us anything about whether or not B obtains in reality.

your carrying on about knights at $140 a throw? id love to know your opinion on..


or THIS pic
how about i toss you a link as well. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans

lets see the list of reasons i have to having the thunderhawk. its awesome. it looks the business, it is a great centrepiece, has great use in game, makes people jealous.
now lets see how bad a person you think i am, and remember i have MORE than just a thunderhawk, i have a warhound, Glaive, Felblade and a BaneBlade.

to be honest i think you cant justify buying such models for yourself, or someone told you NO so you gonna be a hater to those that have them

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That's what I'm after. To get you to stop bashing the book.

Guns should not be bashed. Marijuana shouldn't be bashed. Nuclear science shouldn't be bashed. Psyfleman-Dreads should not be bashed.

People who do stupid things with guns, nukes, marijuana and spamming Psy-Dreads should be bashed.

TOs who fail to nerf Invisibility, 2+ rerollables, and goodness knows what else GW spits out, those folks need bashing.

Smart folks use guns, drugs, and science wisely. Smart folks will curtail decurion detachments, the eldar formations, and other things, so games have the balance and playability that works for the players.

...What!? I can understand most of your post, but whats with the vast strangeness of the rest of it.

Sorry for not being clearer. I was reaching out to other examples of 'bad things' that are often thought of as bad, when really, they are used badly, or managed poorly (nuclear science, for example).

The Eldar codex gives elves a lot more bang for your points. And this decurion formation detachment thing ... well, I was trying to state, assert, that if you properly regulate something bad or dangerous, that it can be a useful thing.

Nukes? As energy, no. As a branch of medicine. Okay.

Guns? When your pack horse has taken a bad spill down the mountain side, broken its leg, and help is 4 hours ride down ... well, euthanasia.

And so forth.

Main point, I guess, was, modify the codex to suit your group's tastes.

Not every post is communication gold.

Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

Yup, that really good for the long term health of the game .

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

Serious question, are you trolling? Stating that everyone is going to abuse the codex is absurd, check your opponents list before playing let that be your indicator, I stress this point; Please do not deny people games because the army they chose recieved a strong codex.

Noir wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

Yup, that really good for the long term health of the game .

Have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. It seems a large chunk of Eldar players have no mercy for us. Why should be show mercy to them? They are bringing this on themselves.

 Gamgee wrote:

Noir wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

Yup, that really good for the long term health of the game .

Have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. It seems a large chunk of Eldar players have no mercy for us. Why should be show mercy to them? They are bringing this on themselves.

No they are just using what they are giving be GW, but your right you should show no mercy. No mercy to GW and 40K that is, teach them and stop playing and supporting them until they learn. they are bring it on themselves with bad game design.

 Gamgee wrote:

Noir wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

Yup, that really good for the long term health of the game .

Have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. It seems a large chunk of Eldar players have no mercy for us. Why should be show mercy to them? They are bringing this on themselves.

Yes... they are bringing it on themselves by continuing to play the army they have been playing for 10 years or more, just because GW relased a codex that other palyers don't like. Nevermind that it might be the only army they own, nevermind if they like eldar because of the fluff, and nevermind if they are players who don't like playing cheese lists. GW released a silly codex so all those who play that army must be banned from the game forever... way to be a mature adult about the situation.

 Gamgee wrote:

Noir wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

Yup, that really good for the long term health of the game .

Have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. It seems a large chunk of Eldar players have no mercy for us. Why should be show mercy to them? They are bringing this on themselves.

A large chunk??? Apart from the hypothetical army lists floating around everywhere, this threads OP and a couple others floating in the forums you'll find that it relates to the whole "no-one writes good reviews" because I've played in the local store, and two clubs around me and the only time we had an army list worthy of being burnt was when a player was testing the absurdity of it all.

Also what chanceaf said, to him

chanceafs wrote:

Yes... they are bringing it on themselves by continuing to play the army they have been playing for 10 years or more, just because GW relased a codex that other palyers don't like. Nevermind that it might be the only army they own, nevermind if they like eldar because of the fluff, and nevermind if they are players who don't like playing cheese lists. GW released a silly codex so all those who play that army must be banned from the game forever... way to be a mature adult about the situation.

You're actually proving Gamgee's point. Eldar has always been overpowered and broken. Whether you're a cheesemonger 10 years ago or now doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. You've been given 10 years to change out to something less abusive, and yet you've persisted. All the more anyone shouldn't pay against the older eldar players. The eldar faction has had 25 years to absorb as many WAAC and cheese players as they can. I doubt anyone will be breaking many eggs boycotting them.

Either way, whether people are matured or not, eventually, no one will like getting curbstomped for 3 hours straight so that some eldar player can satisfy his ego, and eventually, eldar players will have to change armies or stop playing altogether.

kburn wrote:

chanceafs wrote:

Yes... they are bringing it on themselves by continuing to play the army they have been playing for 10 years or more, just because GW relased a codex that other palyers don't like. Nevermind that it might be the only army they own, nevermind if they like eldar because of the fluff, and nevermind if they are players who don't like playing cheese lists. GW released a silly codex so all those who play that army must be banned from the game forever... way to be a mature adult about the situation.

You're actually proving Gamgee's point. Eldar has always been overpowered and broken. Whether you're a cheesemonger 10 years ago or now doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. You've been given 10 years to change out to something less abusive, and yet you've persisted. All the more anyone shouldn't pay against the older eldar players. The eldar faction has had 25 years to absorb as many WAAC and cheese players as they can. I doubt anyone will be breaking many eggs boycotting them.

Either way, whether people are matured or not, eventually, no one will like getting curbstomped for 3 hours straight so that some eldar player can satisfy his ego, and eventually, eldar players will have to change armies or stop playing altogether.

Eldar have always been a strong army in general, but not everyone plays them as strong as possible. Eldar are a damn cool army fluff wise and model wise, and people shouldn't be expected not to play something they like less because GW cannot write a balanced set of rules. It's not the Eldar players fault the codex is ridiculous.

Wait till your army is OP and everyone stops playing you, and people are telling you 'well you should just buy a whole new army'. Stop blaming players for GW incompetence. Most Eldar players seem unhappy with how strong the new codex is. They didn't ask for it.

kburn wrote:

chanceafs wrote:

Yes... they are bringing it on themselves by continuing to play the army they have been playing for 10 years or more, just because GW relased a codex that other palyers don't like. Nevermind that it might be the only army they own, nevermind if they like eldar because of the fluff, and nevermind if they are players who don't like playing cheese lists. GW released a silly codex so all those who play that army must be banned from the game forever... way to be a mature adult about the situation.

You're actually proving Gamgee's point. Eldar has always been overpowered and broken. Whether you're a cheesemonger 10 years ago or now doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. You've been given 10 years to change out to something less abusive, and yet you've persisted. All the more anyone shouldn't pay against the older eldar players. The eldar faction has had 25 years to absorb as many WAAC and cheese players as they can. I doubt anyone will be breaking many eggs boycotting them.

Either way, whether people are matured or not, eventually, no one will like getting curbstomped for 3 hours straight so that some eldar player can satisfy his ego, and eventually, eldar players will have to change armies or stop playing altogether.

I don't know what game you've been playing, but it's not the same one I learned

For the record, I started playing in 5th edition when Eldar was certainly NOT an overpowered and broken codex. IT was introduced to me as the hardest codex to play well, because unlike every other army at the time, you COULD NOT win games just by spamming the best units in the book. You had to pick a mix of units, and use each one in a specific way or watch your army crumble in no time flat/ And I took my lumps in those days, losing far more games than I won. Nobody else in my FLGS even played Eldar during that time. You don't have to be an Eldar player to be a cheesemonger, and not all cheesemongers are Eldar (nor the opposite).

The army you play is far less important than how you decide to play it. If you decide to play like a d-bag, then you should be treated as such. If you don't, then you shouldn't be treated like gak just because other people do.

Just as a side note to all this hatred, I am in no way saying Boycott all eldar players. This was a topic about a single player who was acting like TFG for bringing ridiculous lists and then getting mad when nobody wanted to lose for 3 hours straight against him.

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

The TFG are the ones turning down games before they've even faced the new eldar codex, especially if the eldar player isn't spamming cheesy units. Good luck on your pointless, self righteous crusade though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chanceafs wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Noir wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Congratulations on turning him down.

It seems like the Eldar players aren't too happy about this. Well we're not too happy with that broken codex. With the squeeze on I encourage all players to deny Eldar as much games as possible. Put the squeeze on them.

People doubted me when I made that big topic to get them banned. Now we have this. I've seen more and more threads started here complaining about TFG Eldar players. This only proves my point. All too often they try and say they won't abuse their codex, and then you turn around and this happens. They will ruin it for all of us. All it takes is one person and one super bad codex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb1CEZDk6u4

Yup, that really good for the long term health of the game .

Have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. It seems a large chunk of Eldar players have no mercy for us. Why should be show mercy to them? They are bringing this on themselves.

Yes... they are bringing it on themselves by continuing to play the army they have been playing for 10 years or more, just because GW relased a codex that other palyers don't like. Nevermind that it might be the only army they own, nevermind if they like eldar because of the fluff, and nevermind if they are players who don't like playing cheese lists. GW released a silly codex so all those who play that army must be banned from the game forever... way to be a mature adult about the situation.

The poster in question has shown multiple times in various threads that he has no intention of pretending to be a mature adult about anything...

Because it is not like eldar players use jetbikes, or WK or formations. But I understand that anyone who just bought some new jetbikes would be kind of a pissed, if others didn't let him play. Would be like buying a lot of FW and finding out that no one in your area is ok with it.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Just as a side note to all this hatred, I am in no way saying Boycott all eldar players. This was a topic about a single player who was acting like TFG for bringing ridiculous lists and then getting mad when nobody wanted to lose for 3 hours straight against him.

Indeed... judging the story as you presented it, I am in full agreement that the player you are describing would indeed qualify as TFG. I personally have no interest in ever taking more than one WK (if I even take one), in any game I play, tourney or not. The alternate list of 2 titan's is pretty damning.

I'm just trying to keep the perception of one D-bag from one location spilling over to everybody else who plays Eldar.

chanceafs wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Just as a side note to all this hatred, I am in no way saying Boycott all eldar players. This was a topic about a single player who was acting like TFG for bringing ridiculous lists and then getting mad when nobody wanted to lose for 3 hours straight against him.

Indeed... judging the story as you presented it, I am in full agreement that the player you are describing would indeed qualify as TFG. I personally have no interest in ever taking more than one WK (if I even take one), in any game I play, tourney or not. The alternate list of 2 titan's is pretty damning.

I'm just trying to keep the perception of one D-bag from one location spilling over to everybody else who plays Eldar.

Thanks Chance, also, as i mentioned a friend in the area is also an Eldar player who is SERIOUSLY into the fluff part of the Eldar, he was so excited that the aspect warriors all got big buffs because he has been wanting to field an aspect army that has a good chance at winning. I have a game set up with him sometime this week were just waiting to specify a time :-P. So as i said not ALL eldar players are jerks or TFG and I shouldn't have to say this but, The majority of Eldar players aren't TFG. I stopped playing SM because they were boring, not because i felt bad for winning all the time (which being Blood angels i didn't :-P) I chose orks because the codex was the weirdest, most random awesome codex around. Who wouldn't want a Trukk to randomly explode in a direction to be determined :-P

 Ghazkuul wrote:

chanceafs wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Just as a side note to all this hatred, I am in no way saying Boycott all eldar players. This was a topic about a single player who was acting like TFG for bringing ridiculous lists and then getting mad when nobody wanted to lose for 3 hours straight against him.

Indeed... judging the story as you presented it, I am in full agreement that the player you are describing would indeed qualify as TFG. I personally have no interest in ever taking more than one WK (if I even take one), in any game I play, tourney or not. The alternate list of 2 titan's is pretty damning.

I'm just trying to keep the perception of one D-bag from one location spilling over to everybody else who plays Eldar.

Thanks Chance, also, as i mentioned a friend in the area is also an Eldar player who is SERIOUSLY into the fluff part of the Eldar, he was so excited that the aspect warriors all got big buffs because he has been wanting to field an aspect army that has a good chance at winning. I have a game set up with him sometime this week were just waiting to specify a time :-P. So as i said not ALL eldar players are jerks or TFG and I shouldn't have to say this but, The majority of Eldar players aren't TFG. I stopped playing SM because they were boring, not because i felt bad for winning all the time (which being Blood angels i didn't :-P) I chose orks because the codex was the weirdest, most random awesome codex around. Who wouldn't want a Trukk to randomly explode in a direction to be determined :-P

I will admit, I have been tempted to play Ork for a long time, just because their fluff is just so fun. I'm the guy who, if I started an Ork army would but a Shokk Attack Gunn on the table every single game just because it's the most awesomely orky thing imaginable. (or at least was back in the day, I haven't actually seen the 6th ed ork codex so I have no idea how it works now.)

my fluffy lists always have a SAG, a Weirdboy, a Blitza Bomba and at least 60 boyz :-P

SAG for obvious reasons, Weirdboy because he is still weird as hell and the Blitza bomba because you either do really really well or you ram into the tank you were shooting at and kill it and yourself :-P

 Toofast wrote:

The TFG are the ones turning down games before they've even faced the new eldar codex, especially if the eldar player isn't spamming cheesy units. Good luck on your pointless, self righteous crusade though.

Woah - PLOT TWIST!

I think it's ridiculous that Eldar players are having to justify their army choice. I won't - I've had an Eldar army in some form for over 20 years.

The bedwetting from other players isn't even funny now. It's mass hysteria based on nothing except 'math hammer' and what COULD be brought to the table.

You'll get dreadful people bringing dreadful lists from every codex. Just opt to not play those people.

I'm still on the 'bargaining' stage myself.

Traditio wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
No they're not. They're just buying a model. Stop putting such a big moral question on things like spending your money and playing games, it's ridiculous.

In concreto, there's no such thing as a morally neutral act. Whatever you do, you're going to be doing it well or poorly. You can tell me, of course, "but this is not the due matter for any of the virtues." But then I'll ask you whether there is a certain "area" of life which can be lived humanly, and yet does not require the rule of reason. If you say "yes," then you utter a contradiction (to perform a human action is to perform an act which proceeds from knowledge and will). If you say "no," then you grant my argument.

You must be a hoot at parties.

 monders wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

The TFG are the ones turning down games before they've even faced the new eldar codex, especially if the eldar player isn't spamming cheesy units. Good luck on your pointless, self righteous crusade though.

Woah - PLOT TWIST!

I think it's ridiculous that Eldar players are having to justify their army choice. I won't - I've had an Eldar army in some form for over 20 years.

The bedwetting from other players isn't even funny now. It's mass hysteria based on nothing except 'math hammer' and what COULD be brought to the table.

You'll get dreadful people bringing dreadful lists from every codex. Just opt to not play those people.

Well the new Eldar codex admittedly looks quite strong to the point of being OTT on the surface, that doesn't automatically mean they're 100% 'uber, because... "Reasons."

They do have their bad match-ups still, Daemons for example can wreck their supposed Psychic dominance...
Hordes will laugh at Wraith-centric armies, especially the mythical massed D-Scythe list...
Scatbike spam is purely an internet myth - 30-40+ bikes have incredibly predictable JSJ windows on your average 4'x6' table as that many bikes is just too unwieldy for that size of table...


Besides, I've yet to see this new codex put down a list with basic Troops, who can pass a few Ld9 tests and outright prevent an entire opposing army from even legally putting a single model on the table!

Experiment 626 wrote:

Besides, I've yet to see this new codex put down a list with basic Troops, who can pass a few Ld9 tests and outright prevent an entire opposing army from even legally putting a single model on the table!

I'm sorry, what? Please elaborate.

Fairly sure he's talking about Warp Quake vs Demons.

You know, I've played Eldar several times now and I can assure you of a couple things, Gaz.

1) Not every eldar list is broken OP because it's Eldar. The Warhost is very strong if you bring the Windrider formation as the base core and more than one WK-anything else and it's okay but not crazy because the Guardian host and especially the Storm Guardian host ends up being a pretty big points sink with stuff that isn't that great.

2) Strength D is way overhyped, particularly against orks and other hordes! I hope you realize that you have better chances of surviving a Wraithcannon with a Trukk than a meltagun, yes? And that against an Ork, a D-scythe and a Heavy Flamer are exactly the same thing? The Wraithknight is crazy primarily because he gained the survivability tarpit resistance that came with getting Gargantuan basically for free. If it wasn't a gargant at 298 points it would be underpowered, D weaponry or not.

3) There are many units in the codex that are just as bad as the worst crap units that any army has. Rangers, their associated special character, Fuegan, Striking Scorpions, Fire Prisms, Storm Guardians, Wraithblades, Vypers... it is still possible and easy to tone down an Eldar list to play at whatever competitive level you want. Heck, I don't think any army would have an issue going up against a Warhost with a Storm Guardian host thingy as its core. Luckily, they do not suffer from the problem the Necrons have, where all the "default" choices are automatically better than most stuff that other people have-stick any Eldar infantry on foot and it's automatically pretty subpar.

4) Even the scariest Eldar Warhost list is not unbeatable. My friend and I actually wanted to try a game against "The big scary list" which was a double CAD with 2x WKs with cannons, a mess of Scatterbikes, and Wraithguard in a wave serpent, and I took a pretty standard blobs-n-russes behind an Aegis Guard list with some tempestus support to nab Maelstrom objectives, and he took a lot of hurt really fast. He might have had better odds if he'd played it differently (He moved his WK's to cover/seize objectives turn 1 instead of heading straight towards me, which let me focus on destroying the Wraithguard turn 1, which was a significant advantage) but even so everything that was oh-so-spooky in the Eldar dex died to buffed-up lascannons and LR Battlecannons just fine. And before you say "but warhost" remember that Scatbikers and Wraithknights get no benefit from the warhost formation bonuses-we used CADs so we could get the D-scythe Wraithguards in a Serpent in there, this was intended to be the most broken Eldar list possible.

From playing them recently and reading several posts, I feel like Ork hordes/MSU are the way to go against Eldar. D weapons suck for any armies that can't fulfill this strategy or outshoot Eldar.