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bcm2100 wrote:
The salt is real

Why would you bump a month old inactive thread with a salt is real post..

 Kanluwen wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
If a gun the size of the hammerhead railgun doesn't have Str D, then nothing in the game should.

Distort weapons are already Str D.

If a Knight's Melta Cannon isn't Str D, then nothing in the game should have it.

See how silly you sound right now? There's plenty of examples of weapons that should have it, but don't.

I'm not being silly. Many such weapons should have Str D as well, now that it is in the game as a "thing". The Hammerhead main gun included.

Martel732 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
If a gun the size of the hammerhead railgun doesn't have Str D, then nothing in the game should.

Distort weapons are already Str D.

If a Knight's Melta Cannon isn't Str D, then nothing in the game should have it.

See how silly you sound right now? There's plenty of examples of weapons that should have it, but don't.

I'm not being silly. Many such weapons should have Str D as well, now that it is in the game as a "thing". The Hammerhead main gun included.

The point.
You missed it.

You can't look at what one army gets and then insist that "because X got Y, Z should have W!". People expected the Imperial Knight to gain Strength D for its ranged weapons because the Wraithknight did on its ranged weapons(remember that previously Strength D weapons with a significant range were rare and primarily on fortifications or huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge flippin' Titans).

Ideally? None of the Wraith stuff should have been given Strength D(even D-1 is excessive), and instead it should have been for "hit" rolls of 6 with Distortion weapons, you could roll on the Destroyer Weapons table.

But we can't take that back, we can only prevent that nonsense from happening again. Hammerheads are comparatively speaking to Wraithknights, Hemlock Wraithfighters, or even units of Wraithguard and the (seemingly) mandatory Wave Serpent or Raider/Archon with WWP, dirt cheap.

Railheads shouldn't just be given Destroyer. There are far more options than just slapping SD on something. For example, you could pull a page from the Leman Russ Conqueror's Augur Shell wargear in IA1 and introduce a "Cratering" rule for their railcannon, wherein after suffering a glance/pen a vehicle has to roll a D6 and on a 4+ they lose a point of armor from the hull facing that was hit, to represent the fact that even if a railcannon's shot doesn't outright destroy a tank it has left a weak spot in the armor.

Another option is to do something similar to the Eradication Ray from Cult Mechanicus, where a shot at shorter ranges does more upfront damage but a shot at the longer ranges does less damage but causes a blast instead--but that could steal the thunder from the (apparently) well-liked Submunitions.

Speaking of, Submunitions? They should be half the range of whatever Solid Shot's range ends up being.

It doesn't need to be S-D or anything else, just give a properly named special rule that lets it do d3 HPs/wounds per hit on a successful glance/penetration/wound. and/or give it the instant death rule so it can become a monster hunter as well.

Edit:

I like cratering Kan but the game doesn't need more bookkeeping.

 agnosto wrote:
It doesn't need to be S-D or anything else, just give a properly named special rule that lets it do d3 HPs/wounds per hit on a successful glance/penetration/wound. and/or give it the instant death rule so it can become a monster hunter as well.

I've been pushing for something like that to be made a part of Armourbane for awhile, and have tested it a bit with my Skitarii and the Arquebus.

It is surprisingly balanced.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
It doesn't need to be S-D or anything else, just give a properly named special rule that lets it do d3 HPs/wounds per hit on a successful glance/penetration/wound. and/or give it the instant death rule so it can become a monster hunter as well.

I've been pushing for something like that to be made a part of Armourbane for awhile, and have tested it a bit with my Skitarii and the Arquebus.

It is surprisingly balanced.

That'd work or let it roll on the vehicle table even on glances.

My biggest beef with Armourbane is that while it's cool, in theory, it simply becomes another thing to bludgeon vehicles to death with and does nothing to MCs or GMCs(which, IMO, should seriously be vulnerable to things with Armourbane--most Armourbane weaponry is low ROF, high S/AP with some other rules like the Transauranic Arqeubus which suddenly gets nerfed against GMCs because of the "Sniper" special rule despite the thing being stated as able to punch holes in Bio-Titans).

Vehicles, IMO, are already weak enough in this edition of 40k. Glancing things to death should not be feasible with anything short of S8-10 weaponry.

And realistically, many vehicles which should have far more hull points(Leman Russes, IMO) are further hindered by the addition of Squadron rules, and then there's all other kinds of silliness...
Like "Extra Armor" not actually giving you an extra point of AV, for example.

I would like to see a slightly modified version of the above rules.

Declare target and aiming point.
Roll 2d6 and scatter subtracting the BS
That determines the hit location.
Next draw a line from the weapon to the hit location
All models touched by the line are hit by a Str 10 AP-
This allows for collateral damage while not making the railgun OP, as the simple fact that the model wasn't actually wounded by the graze.

Railgun -solid shot Rng 72" Str 10 AP 1 Armourbane, Collateral Damage, Rending
-flechette shot Rng Template Str 6 AP 5
-Submunitions Rng 72" Str 6 AP 5 Large blast, ignores cover

"You can't look at what one army gets and then insist that "because X got Y, Z should have W!""

Yeah, I can. It's called compare and contrast. If a Wraithcannon has strength D, the Hammerhead's weapon should really have strength D that always rolls "6".

" None of the Wraith stuff should have been given Strength D(even D-1 is excessive"

Too late. Str D is on the table for any list now.

Except it's not in any real sense beyond "I want it because X got it!".

Do you REALLY think that Knights did not get Strength D for some of their ranged weaponry because someone said "Oh crap, Wraith constructs with Strength D was a bit too much!"?

And realistically, if your argument for Hammerheads getting Strength D is just because "railguns should be Strength D" then so should Leman Russ Vanquishers. After all, they can punch through even Land Raiders and smaller Titans!

Yes they should probably have it as well.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Except it's not in any real sense beyond "I want it because X got it!".

Do you REALLY think that Knights did not get Strength D for some of their ranged weaponry because someone said "Oh crap, Wraith constructs with Strength D was a bit too much!"?

And realistically, if your argument for Hammerheads getting Strength D is just because "railguns should be Strength D" then so should Leman Russ Vanquishers. After all, they can punch through even Land Raiders and smaller Titans!

Yes, but they have Armourbane to make that happen. The Railgun has n special rules, just raw numbers and those don't seem to do the job it's supposed to do.

I'm not sure D is the answer, but it does need something to help it along.

I said already that Armorbane needs a huge buff, because as it stands "roll an additional D6 for Armor Pen" is nice and all but not great.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I said already that Armorbane needs a huge buff, because as it stands "roll an additional D6 for Armor Pen" is nice and all but not great.

it makes the average roll to penetrate for the Vanquisher a 15 though, which makes it better than the Railgun at getting penetrations.

I can't believe I'm about to say this...

Hammerhead Railgun, if not S like the new giant battlesuits, should be given armorbane, fleshbane, and instant death. I'm not up on the 7th ed versions of those rules and never will be, but that's how I'd play the railgun.

Since the Armoured Interdiction Cadre is now a bundle, I expect that we'll see an upgrade to Hammerhead killing power when taken in a formation.

 Desubot wrote:

bcm2100 wrote:
The salt is real

Why would you bump a month old inactive thread with a salt is real post..

Because I'm just that good