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Shockingly, not every issue needs to be solved by starting a war or bombing the gak out of something. Or threatening massive violence.

Seriously. This sounds like a non-incident. Escalations happen because the weaker nation needs to posture for ANY gain for itself. Why do you think North Korea keeps making provocative statements, testing missiles and the like? Because they're in the weaker position!

It's not in the US's interests to damage it's own propsperity (and the world's) by engaging in punitive measures as king of the world. That actually weakens the US further by expending strength in useless things.

Sheesh. American power has never been greater.

 Killionaire wrote:
Shockingly, not every issue needs to be solved by starting a war or bombing the gak out of something. Or threatening massive violence.

Seriously. This sounds like a non-incident. Escalations happen because the weaker nation needs to posture for ANY gain for itself. Why do you think North Korea keeps making provocative statements, testing missiles and the like? Because they're in the weaker position!

It's not in the US's interests to damage it's own propsperity (and the world's) by engaging in punitive measures as king of the world. That actually weakens the US further by expending strength in useless things.

Sheesh. American power has never been greater.

Exactly. The US got its sailors back with a phone call.

It didn't even need to threaten to use force. That is true power.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Killionaire wrote:
Shockingly, not every issue needs to be solved by starting a war or bombing the gak out of something. Or threatening massive violence.

Seriously. This sounds like a non-incident. Escalations happen because the weaker nation needs to posture for ANY gain for itself. Why do you think North Korea keeps making provocative statements, testing missiles and the like? Because they're in the weaker position!

It's not in the US's interests to damage it's own propsperity (and the world's) by engaging in punitive measures as king of the world. That actually weakens the US further by expending strength in useless things.

Sheesh. American power has never been greater.

Exactly. The US got its sailors back with a phone call.

It didn't even need to threaten to use force. That is true power.

A phone call to a country that hates us (at least it's leadership) and that was likely the recipient of us doing something shady in the area. Meh, let them posture.

It probably wasn't all that shady, because these wouldn't be the dudes doing shady stuff. I think CptJake was on the right track earlier - we were probably fething around and doing the time-honored "flirt with their boundaries" thing that everybody does to everybody else. Then our gakky boats broke down.

We'd have plucked them if we could've done it without inevitably having to splash Iranian fighters or strafe their dumbass little outboard-equipped skiffs (seriously, Iran, hella impressive navy). But we couldn't, so the next best option is to throw anything sensitive (likely not much) in a sink bag, apologize curtly for the navigational error, and sit tight.

gak happens. Iran could've made a big deal about if if they wanted, but it's not in their interests right now. We could've made a big deal of it and told LT "Not Making LCDR Thanks To His Crew Gundecking 3M And Winding Up As The Face Of America's Apology To Iran (And Navigational Ineptitude)" to have his guys keep their mouths completely shut, but that's also not in our interests. Nobody wants Iran Hostage Crisis 2: Carter Harder.

Rolls eyes at sheer naievity of the above posters minus Hulksmash and seward.

 Hulksmash wrote:


A phone call to a country that hates us (at least it's leadership) and that was likely the recipient of us doing something shady in the area. Meh, let them posture.

Yup. US gets its boats and servicemen back and Iran gets to show off to its friends, enemies and frenemies about how it caught some western devils in its waters.

Everybody wins.

It's almost like having semi-diplomatic relations and talking to one another is a good thing for all parties involved?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:


A phone call to a country that hates us (at least it's leadership) and that was likely the recipient of us doing something shady in the area. Meh, let them posture.

Yup. US gets its boats and servicemen back, Iran gets to show off to its friends, enemies and frenemies about how it caught some western devils in its waters.

Everybody wins.

Exactly. If we can get someone that loathes us to release our people with a phone call when we were caught in their waters meh. We're good. And don't think for a second our true allies in the region (the few we actually have) would be worried about us appearing weak when this happened.

Tempest in a Teapot!

Everything turned out exactly as it should, and people saying otherwise have political agendas of their own that have nothing to do with Iran for the most part.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Rolls eyes at sheer naievity of the above posters minus Hulksmash and seward.

Wake up, sheeple!

 Ouze wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Rolls eyes at sheer naievity of the above posters minus Hulksmash and seward.

Wake up, sheeple!

Didn't I tell you what would happen?

Ok now, no need to keep responding to someone being rude

Does anyone else think that Iran could be the key to normalizing the Middle East?

We know that this hardcore Islamism is relatively new, all things considered in the area.

We know that the majority population is quite young. And from what I've read, and seen from expats, the West doesn't really seem to be as much of the Great Satan as party lines would have us believe.

Geographically, minus oil and religious structures, is pretty well situated to dominate the region.

Clearly 1980-88 showed they will commit anything to win in war.

Could the West help change (echoes of 1953 I know) Iran back from the path they've taken? I have to think its possible. Nobody will ever know, but wouldn't have letting the democratic government nationalize AIOC, and not supporting the Shah have helped? I know it wasn't politically feasible, but still.

We fething nuked Japan. How is there no way we can't patch things up with Iran? The hostages they didn't kill?

Oh wait the KSA. The Sunni/Shia split America is still involved with.

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Does anyone else think that Iran could be the key to normalizing the Middle East?

If we hadn't screwed the pooch with Operation Ajax, yeah maybe. Unfortunately Ajax should most certainly be recorded as one of the US' greatest foreign blunders. Our support for the former Monarchy despite an obvious populist uprising kind of screwed our relationship with the Iranian people. They kind of liked us before the 80s Guess their patience ran out.

We know that this hardcore Islamism is relatively new, all things considered in the area.

It's really not. Islamic Fundamentalism is a long standing issue in every corner of the Middle East and has been for many centuries. It got ignored by the west in part because first we had the Ottomans keeping them down, and then Colonial rule, and some Neo-Colonialism after that. All thats kind of been stripped away, revealing what was there all along. It's not new. We just had the luxury of not having it right in our face before the 60s and 70s.

Today there are a number of issues at play. Though Iran supported Israel way back when, but that supported has faded. Ours has not,. Plus, we put Saddam in charge of Iraq and one of the first things he did was start a war with Iran, which Iran has traditionally viewed as a war with the goal of genocide (good old Sunni vs Shia stuff). We continue to support the Saudis, which isn't helping. Plus our long time habit of propping up dictators. For better or worse, Iran does embrace a democratic ideal culturally so that habit of ours doesn't play well with the Iranian public. Then there's the whole economic sanctions and nuclear stuff.

Iran has a lot of reasons to not like us. Most of them very valid. They'd rather grow closer to Russia and China than to us, which is what's been happening the past few years.

One of the military sites on Facebook I follow is going crazy about this and has turned into a conspiracy theory. It is a bit sad, especially the guy who said "I worked on small boats and they break down all the time but I'm sure this one time they didn't and the administration is just trying to weaken us". Someone else tied it to allowing women into combat.

Unfortunately it has devolved into a bunch of people taking government checks making up gak about the people who actually write those checks they take.

 motyak wrote:
Ok now, no need to keep responding to someone being rude

If I've been rude, insulting, or patronising to my fellow dakka members, then I do apologise for my conduct.

I do like a good political debate, and sometimes, I do get carried away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Easy E wrote:
Tempest in a Teapot!

Everything turned out exactly as it should, and people saying otherwise have political agendas of their own that have nothing to do with Iran for the most part.

Not me, I'm pro-American.

In my life experience, if you let somebody push you around, they usually keep on pushing.

IMO as a historian, when great powers abdicate their responsibilities, or begin to decline, or take a step back, bad things usually happen, because other countries want what they have, and trouble starts.

I'm not calling for WW3 because some US sailors had a night in some Iranian jail, I'm saying that America should adopt a measured, but firm, long term plan for the region, that will discourage Iran from brazen acts against America in the future, which is likely to lead to worse trouble than a few sailors getting embarrassed.

The last time the USA took a step back from the world, you ended up with the Japanese fleet sailing for Pearl Harbour...






Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchWinsAll wrote:
Does anyone else think that Iran could be the key to normalizing the Middle East?

We know that this hardcore Islamism is relatively new, all things considered in the area.

We know that the majority population is quite young. And from what I've read, and seen from expats, the West doesn't really seem to be as much of the Great Satan as party lines would have us believe.

Geographically, minus oil and religious structures, is pretty well situated to dominate the region.

Clearly 1980-88 showed they will commit anything to win in war.

Could the West help change (echoes of 1953 I know) Iran back from the path they've taken? I have to think its possible. Nobody will ever know, but wouldn't have letting the democratic government nationalize AIOC, and not supporting the Shah have helped? I know it wasn't politically feasible, but still.

We fething nuked Japan. How is there no way we can't patch things up with Iran? The hostages they didn't kill?

Oh wait the KSA. The Sunni/Shia split America is still involved with.

I agree that in an ideal world, Iran would be a good partner, but that ship sailed a long time ago, and the USA has to deal with the world how it is, and not how they want it to be.

I would say the same thing to LordofHats, as well.

The USA needs realpolitik, and although I have no love for the Saudi regime, for better or for worse, they are an American ally, and should be supported more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ahtman wrote:
One of the military sites on Facebook I follow is going crazy about this and has turned into a conspiracy theory. It is a bit sad, especially the guy who said "I worked on small boats and they break down all the time but I'm sure this one time they didn't and the administration is just trying to weaken us". Someone else tied it to allowing women into combat.

Unfortunately it has devolved into a bunch of people taking government checks making up gak about the people who actually write those checks they take.

Nobody does checks anymore - it's all electronic payment...Don't tell me they got to you as well!

 Ahtman wrote:
One of the military sites on Facebook I follow is going crazy about this and has turned into a conspiracy theory. It is a bit sad, especially the guy who said "I worked on small boats and they break down all the time but I'm sure this one time they didn't and the administration is just trying to weaken us". Someone else tied it to allowing women into combat.

Unfortunately it has devolved into a bunch of people taking government checks making up gak about the people who actually write those checks they take.

Yeah, well, the Navy really doesn't like Obama. And it hates Ash Carter.

Not too wild on women in combat either, come to think of it.

That said, the conspiracy guys are dumb. This whole thing doesn't make a ton of sense, but it's probably more indicative of RIVRON squadrons trying to find a way to stay relevant rather than one of the nefarious commies high up in the administration trying to start something.

Seaward wrote:


That said, the conspiracy guys are dumb. This whole thing doesn't make a ton of sense, but it's probably more indicative of RIVRON squadrons trying to find a way to stay relevant rather than one of the nefarious commies high up in the administration trying to start something.

I agree. As a side note, RIVRON and 5th Fleet may want to set up some Code of Conduct training for their junior ossifers...

 CptJake wrote:

Seaward wrote:


That said, the conspiracy guys are dumb. This whole thing doesn't make a ton of sense, but it's probably more indicative of RIVRON squadrons trying to find a way to stay relevant rather than one of the nefarious commies high up in the administration trying to start something.

I agree. As a side note, RIVRON and 5th Fleet may want to set up some Code of Conduct training for their junior ossifers...

I was kind of thinking the same. Had a bit of a visceral reaction to the video. But I'm pretty sure they got on the horn with whoever was in charge of this fustercluck before getting scooped up and got told to say what they said. If not...yeesh.