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I'm not really a fan of the Black Gobbo, the half falling off hat isn't working for me, and is that a knife poking through his black cloak thingo?

Do we know when those Skaven will be coming out?

 Hragged wrote:
I said something similar over on Twitter, they look like a cross between Goblins and Gnoblars.

That's probably why I'm not really liking them. As a long time fan of Goblins these models just aren't working for me and I think it's a mix of the moon hats and the big noses. Never was a fan of Gnoblars.


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BigDaddio wrote:
The Goblin Booster Pack is just 4 of the same from the boxed set, based on the photos I have seen.

The 4 red painted Goblins look the same as the ones in the team, though it makes me wonder how the sprues are arranged because there's more than 4 distinct poses in the group of 12 (the one in the middle at the back is running with his right foot forward, which is not a pose that seems to exist in the image of 4 red painted goblins).

I was expecting them to be arranged in 2 identical sprues of 6 each.

Not bad, though it does look like he's got an epic set of mutton chops on him

I personally find it quite tricky to sculpt fur so that it looks like it was supposed to be there and not, well, sculpted on by an amateur afterwards, lol.

Zetan wrote:
Can't wait to see the rules for Swoop! I've always wanted to make the Throw Team-mate play actually work, and if swoop gives you more control over where you land, it could be super helpful. Maybe something like using the throw-in template (in a direction of your choosing) instead of the scatter template for your three scatters? Just guessing.

This could get me to start playing Goblins instead of my usual Lizardmen, just to try and make that skill work...

I once pulled off a successful throw with an Orc and Goblin team, managed to tie up opponent's players, threw a goblin, opponent failed a dodge to swap it back to me, squeezed a blitzer through to knock out the ball carrier and the goblin picked up the ball and got a touchdown.

Rare, but entertaining when it happens.

Anyone who wants a fat rat...

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Glart-Smashrip-2017

Baxx wrote:
I did make a salt water test on all the previous dice.

Found bias towards 11 on human D16 and orc D16. Did not find any balance on Skaven (v1) D16 and Dwarf D16.

Unfortunately, the salt water test was not good for D6, so the test was inconclusive there. The dice simply didn't roll freely enough.

You need to actually roll them and tally the results. Salt water tests will only tell you if they're biased, but not by how much. I'd say a couple of percent bias is probably fine and unlikely to affect a game, if it's say 10% out then I'd be looking at buying replacements.

 bound for glory wrote:
I have been playing this game since the paper days, and it never crossed my mind to even worry about it.

I don't "worry" about it, I think, I observe, I test, I correct if necessary... worry? No

I guess some of us are just more inquisitive than others

Mean to say, it just isn't worth ruining a good time.

Err, checking dice bias is usually done outside of the games themselves. You don't stop someone mid game and say "hang on a second, lets check those dice!".

My ability to check dice bias doesn't preclude me from having a good time, but thank you for your concern


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Baxx wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
You need to actually roll them and tally the results. Salt water tests will only tell you if they're biased, but not by how much. I'd say a couple of percent bias is probably fine and unlikely to affect a game, if it's say 10% out then I'd be looking at buying replacements.

Yes, you're right. The bias could be diminishing or actually make a difference.

I haven't bothered with rolling dice and counting cause I don't find that task vey interesting. I did try and make some photos of the new dice and see if I could get some image recognition algorithm/library make out the difference of the sides, but I didn't get very far at it. My plan was to build an automatic dice-tower with a web camera to record the results and have this program do the statistics for me. Unfortunately I know too little about image recognition.

I would never bother testing more than 1 or two dice manually, but if you're just checking a couple of dice it doesn't take all that long to roll them tally the results, probably take me less time than writing a program

I'm not really sure how you'd write a program either. It would be quite easy to do one for dice with pips, because you just need something that identifies pips. But identifying the patterns on a BB dice.... can't say I've ever tried to do something like that before. I guess if the die was a very different colour to the area you're rolling it on you could use colour to identify the die itself, then use a cross correlation to determine which pattern is on the upward facing side, but I don't know how you'd account for the die falling in different orientations (eg, how to identify if you're looking for an upside down skull or a right side up skull). I guess it wouldn't take much computing power so you could just rotate your pattern through 360 degrees and correlate at every, I dunno, say 5 degrees, pick the angle which has the highest correlation and then pick the pattern which gave the highest correlation at the highest angle.

EDIT: Or maybe identify the edges of the die based on colour, fit lines to those edges and then use that to rotate the image of the rolled die to be orthogonal. Once the image of the die is orthogonal you just need to perform correlations at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees.

A programmer I am not, but I could probably write a matlab script to do that.

I'll definitely be grabbing the Troll. Didn't buy the plastic one because it looked too awkward for my liking.

Elves look good, but I'd be more interested in a Wood Elf or High Elf team.

And pretty please a Lizardman team that matches the aesthetic of the computer game!! I want a Lizard team but the plastic Saurus look way too weedy and plastic Temple Guard too static to be bothered trying to convert them.

Yeah the Human and Orc teams are in need of a booster. Black Orcs and Blitzers have very distinctive poses so having 4 identical ones on a field looks pretty bad.

They did the Skaven booster which is quite nice for giving you 2 additional options for the Gutter Runners and 1 option for a Blitzer.

I bought the Skaven booster and while the models are nice, it looks to me just like they were CADded up, 3D printed then resin cast. You can see the striations from the 3D prints on the resin models and they lack the really sharp detail I'm normally used to seeing on Forge World models. If that's their design process it doesn't seem like a huge deal to just throw together some boosters for the other teams.

I still want to see a Lizardmen team though, most of the other teams I don't mind the 3rd party options or conversions but I feel the Lizardmen could really use a new team.

 Breotan wrote:
If your teams are still incomplete, you have only yourself to blame. You should be able to complete all the currently released teams, albeit with a second purchase either from GW, FW, or bits sellers on eBay.

Again we're talking specifically about Humans and Orcs here, GW have not released new sculpts for Blitzers and Black Orcs so you'll be left with 4 identical poses.

I have no problem with monopose models assuming there's a range of poses.

Skaven are fine, FW released the booster pack that gives you extra poses for the Gutter Runners.

You could go 3rd party but I don't think anyone makes models of the same aesthetic.


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Deadawake1347 wrote:
I would absolutely buy a new Lizardman team, especially if done in the style of the (relatively in comparison to every other sarus sculprlt) recent Carnosaur sculpt. I found a 3rd party one that's okay, but but just isn't as good.

Yeah the Star Player Lizardmen look nice but they are...

1. Insanely expensive, they're 2 to 3 times the price of a GW team even when you take into account the Kroxigor. You can add shipping to that because GW teams most people can get without paying for shipping but the Star Player ones you only get free shipping if you're both in Europe and spending over 120 euro.

2. They're tiny. They look good but when you see them on the website those are 25mm bases they're mounted on and they still look small on them.

 Breotan wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
If your teams are still incomplete, you have only yourself to blame. You should be able to complete all the currently released teams, albeit with a second purchase either from GW, FW, or bits sellers on eBay.

Again we're talking specifically about Humans and Orcs here, GW have not released new sculpts for Blitzers and Black Orcs so you'll be left with 4 identical poses.

I'm not sure how to reply to this. Yes, there is duplication of poses in the plastic sets. However there has ALWAYS been this type of duplication. Go back to the 3rd Edition box and you'll see one pose for the catcher, one for the thrower, one for your blitzer, and usually only one or two for your linemen. This was the same with both the humans and orcs that came in the box. The metal teams were little better with regards to variety. Eventually you'd see something in a blister but those were usually expensive for what you got.

We aren't living in the mid 90's anymore. I remember playing games against armies of Space Marines made up of the exact same identical post. What was acceptable back then isn't quite so much anymore.

Yes, there is a lot of duplicate poses in Blood Bowl. There's really only one way to deal with it, do what people back in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd editions had to do - learn to convert. I don't know what else to tell you.

Dude, anything can be converted. GW don't have to release anything at all because any team can be converted.

You said you wished they'd release more teams so your friends can update your models.... tell your friends to learn to convert.

I'd rather they put some effort in to fill out the teams they've already released.


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Deadawake1347 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:
I would absolutely buy a new Lizardman team, especially if done in the style of the (relatively in comparison to every other sarus sculprlt) recent Carnosaur sculpt. I found a 3rd party one that's okay, but but just isn't as good.

Yeah the Star Player Lizardmen look nice but they are...

1. Insanely expensive, they're 2 to 3 times the price of a GW team even when you take into account the Kroxigor. You can add shipping to that because GW teams most people can get without paying for shipping but the Star Player ones you only get free shipping if you're both in Europe and spending over 120 euro.

2. They're tiny. They look good but when you see them on the website those are 25mm bases they're mounted on and they still look small on them.

Hah! Those were actually exactly the ones I was looking at, and you're absolutely right on both accounts. Honestly I'd just convert my own, but the current Saurus range looks terrible, aside from the one from the Carnosaur box. I'd settle for three sculpts of each Saurus and Skink players. Sure you'd end up with duplicates... But who cares when the next best option has the Saurus the same size or smaller than the human team? I would much, much rather them get all the teams out there and then go back and make alternate sculpts, rather than have some teams just left out.

Yeah, I converted some from the existing Saurus and Skink models. There's some pics in my gallery if you want to see how they turned out...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-59981-53651_Blood%20Bowl.html

The Skinks are fine but the Saurus models both have bad and hard to modify poses and are way too weedy.

It was kind of a rush job conversion, threw them together to play a game against a mate but I'm holding out hope that they release a team down the track so I didn't put a huge amount of effort in to them.

Lizardmen are one team I really want GW to release because of the fact they are one of the hard ones to convert well. Most the other teams I reckon you can convert reasonably so from the existing WHFB/40k ranges.


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 ekwatts wrote:
This.

On my human team all my blitzers look different due to some having bare heads, a few minor hand swaps and differing skintones.

A problem with the human team in general is all the models look way too similar. The Orc team isn't too bad, but the humans they chose basically the same pose for all the linemen and blitzers. Of the teams GW has done so far the humans are probably my least favourite.

EvgO wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


You said you wished they'd release more teams so your friends can update your models.... tell your friends to learn to convert.

I'd rather they put some effort in to fill out the teams they've already released.

I'm sorry, but this is obnoxious. I started a league with seven of my friends, six of whom have never painted or assembled a mini before.
Not everyone is ready to blow a ton of money to sit and cut and glue for hours afterwards.

New teams are a huge deal and entry point and I'm glad GW recognizes this.

I'm glad you noticed it was obnoxious, it was intentionally supposed to be because the poster I was quoting said to me...

 Breotan wrote:
....learn to convert. I don't know what else to tell you.

Obviously anything can be converted! It's just personally I'd like to see them fill out existing teams rather than venture in to further teams when most other teams can actually be converted reasonably easily.

But realistically it's unlikely that new teams (mass produced plastic kits by GW) use the same resources as booster packs (resin kits from FW).

I think booster packs probably consume very little of GW's manpower, given I have bought the FW Skaven booster I can see it was just recast straight off a 3D print, whereas plastic models need to have a whole metal mould machined which is a more expensive and manpower consuming process.

Either way GW aren't releasing new teams at a tremendous rate. If you want to get your friends in to the game I suggest you tell them to start one of the existing teams or buy a 3rd party team. Good 3rd party options exist for several teams, and other teams aren't hard to convert from existing GW models. Lizardmen are one of the few I think have pretty poor options so I'd love for GW to fill that hole.

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 Dysartes wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:
I would absolutely buy a new Lizardman team, especially if done in the style of the (relatively in comparison to every other sarus sculprlt) recent Carnosaur sculpt. I found a 3rd party one that's okay, but but just isn't as good.

Yeah the Star Player Lizardmen look nice but they are...

1. Insanely expensive, they're 2 to 3 times the price of a GW team even when you take into account the Kroxigor. You can add shipping to that because GW teams most people can get without paying for shipping but the Star Player ones you only get free shipping if you're both in Europe and spending over 120 euro.

2. They're tiny. They look good but when you see them on the website those are 25mm bases they're mounted on and they still look small on them.

Hah! Those were actually exactly the ones I was looking at, and you're absolutely right on both accounts. Honestly I'd just convert my own, but the current Saurus range looks terrible, aside from the one from the Carnosaur box. I'd settle for three sculpts of each Saurus and Skink players. Sure you'd end up with duplicates... But who cares when the next best option has the Saurus the same size or smaller than the human team? I would much, much rather them get all the teams out there and then go back and make alternate sculpts, rather than have some teams just left out.

I was able to grab a Lizardman team (inc. Krox) when they went up on Made to Order. While I don't mind small Skinks - they are Stunty after all - the Saurus are the same size or smaller than the new Human team, which is a little worrying...

I was never overly impressed with GW's attempt at Blood Bowl Lizardmen and they haven't aged well IMO. If you play the BB video game the Lizardmen look awesome, if GW released a Lizard team with the same aesthetic I'd be all over it.

 Rayvon wrote:
Not a fan of the elves being nine pieces each, we go from almost mono pose to this........

I will pass, I hope that the WE and High elves will be easier to assemble when they eventually arrive in a few years time.

I'm wondering if they're 9 pieces but still designed to be monopose because the team picture we've seen has poses that are clearly just duplicates with head swaps.

So it might be like some other multi-part but mono-pose models we've seen where the parts are keyed to fit together in a specific way.

Lizard on the cover of the Almanac, and the only player that doesn't have a new team in plastic.... pretty please let that mean Lizardmen are next!!

I know, I'm probably being a touch too hopeful

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
So, uh... what the heck are those yellow rings?

I can't find the post right now, but I believe it was stated that the yellow rings are "action markers" so that you can mark which have already been activated/used.

I thought they were called "skill bands" but I also can't find them now, were they removed from the Warhammer Community post? I could have sworn they were on this page...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/26/blood-bowl-blood-angels-battle-companies-next-weeks-pre-orders/

Baxx wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Could also be used for statuses, like down or stunned? I understand that a bunch of folk have wanted those as an alternative to knocking over their nicely painted models…

Yes so very much!

No fun re-painting an entire team's noses after a tournament.

I don't think it's a great option though because it involves more handling of the model; you have to pick the model up and fit the band around it. With the tiny attachment points of the FW resin Skaven models I'd be more worried about snapping the bastards off their base while trying to put a band around them.

If you're trying to reduce potential model damage I think the best way is with some sort of U shaped counter that fits around the base without having to actually pick up the model.

Personally I bought a neoprene pitch to save my paint jobs. This makes the most sense to me and I'm surprised GW haven't invested more in making more neoprene pitches, instead they're just going hard on the cardboard ones which are more likely to damage models and also more likely to get damaged themselves (I've barely used my cardboard BB pitch and the paint is already wearing off on the fold lines).

 bound for glory wrote:
Is the FW resin that bad?

It's not terrible resin compared to other resin. More delicate than plastic though, which is compounded by the fact many of the FW BB models are standing on the toes of 1 foot.

If new Lizardmen came out with the same aesthetic as the video game I'd buy like 3 of them. If they were easily convertible to Warhammer models then I'd get like 10 of them so I could convert them in to Saurus regiments.

Saurus are so awesome but the models are so stale and weedy.

If GW aren't going to be doing Lizardmen any time soon, I'm thinking converting some from Kings of War's Salamander regiment might be a way to go. The KoW Salamanders have the bulk that Saurus Warriors should have but the GW Saurus really lack.

 Groundh0g wrote:
Out of interest, shouldn't the same "game has been released now, post in the specialist game forums" rule apply to this thread as well, ala the Necromunda one?

No, because we're discussing news and rumours of future releases (upcoming elves, upcoming almanac, rumours about the next team and so on).

We also have more specific BB threads in the specialist gaming forum to deal with stuff that isn't quite so news and rumours related.

I wasn't following the Necromunda thread but maybe it just drifted off topic and there was no current relevant news to discuss? This BB thread tends to die out a few days after new news and rumours then comes back when more news and rumours pops up.

I'm sure if new news comes out for Necromunda the mods would be happy enough to start a new thread here or unlock the old one as well.

Vorian wrote:
Silly that the thread is locked.

So go complain to the mods or make a thread in nuts and bolts about it, it's completely off topic for this thread.


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 Mr_Rose wrote:
Also the free rings only need to stretch a little to fit over a 32mm base and will be snug but not tight enough that removal risks damaging your models.

Good to know. I still don't think they're a great idea though

 infinite_array wrote:
I've got the Almanac from the store I'm playing a league at (Go Immortals!), and its a pretty book. Totally makes the two desth zone books worthless, though it does seem to correct errors. For example, Papa Skullbones' entry has changed his roll from a d6 (wrong) to a d8 (right).

As for the next team, I say it's Lizardmen, if only because they're the only team featured on the Almanac's front and back cover without released miniatures.

Wasn't there a post on the previous page saying Lizardmen wouldn't be next? Yeah, this one....

Chikout wrote:
Listen to the warhammer live interview the other day. Nurgle is coming soon but not next. Lizardmen are still a way off. The next team will be 'surprising'.

I haven't listened to the interview myself. I'd love it if Lizardmen were next.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
"I don't personally care about it and they were always this bad and you could just not buy it anyway so shattap" is not an argument, it's an opinion and a statement of the bleeding obvious wielded to silence criticism.

But that's not the argument he made.

What he said was "If you already have the DZ books and the WD articles, then why is this a problem, as you already have the rules from the Almanac?".

I think we've given too much attention to what isn't really a big deal, but obviously there's going to be people who only bought those things because they thought they needed them to get the rules and then when the compendium comes out they realise they didn't have to do so.

If you didn't know a compendium was coming I can understand being a bit unhappy now, likewise if GW had of announced "Oh Hi Guys, BTW, all these rules are gonna come out later in a compendium" then they probably wouldn't have sold as many copies of all the drip fed publications.

 Galas wrote:
Hmmm... why don't they announce they have gonna release a "complete/gold edition"? For the same reason videogames don't.

Wait sorry maybe I missed it, but what do you think is that reason?

I mean, I assume it's because they feel if they announce it, less people will buy it knowing they can get it as a compendium later. They're trying to balance pissing off people who would rather buy a compendium with still making as much money out of them as possible. But you didn't explicitly say that so I'm not sure if you meant there was another reason.

Seriously guys, can we just drop it? We've dedicated the better part of a page to it and now we're starting to fling off snide remarks as well?

Extreme 1: Person bought those books and are now unhappy because they could have instead bought the compendium and are unsatisfied with what GW have done.

Extreme 2: Person bought those books and are happy because they have those books and will buy the compendium too and are satisfied with what GW have done.

People in this thread exist somewhere between those extremes. Cool, we all understand each other? Lets move on then shall we?

If we have nothing else to talk about it's time to let the thread die until the next nugget of actual news or rumours pops up.

 Panic wrote:
yeah,

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Seriously guys... People in this thread exist somewhere between those extremes. Cool, we all understand each other? Lets move on then shall we?..

or how about you let people talk about the things they want and filter out the stuff you're not interested in?

Because this thread has a topic. It's News and Rumours. It's in the bloody title of the thread and in the name of the subforum. News and Rumours threads are hard enough to follow as is. We have a subforum where you can create more general topics if you'd like, here, I'll give you the links...

Dakka discussions

Games Workshop Board Games & Specialist/Legacy Games

If the discussion of the compendium had anything useful to add it wouldn't be so annoying, but everyone knows where everyone else stands unless they're purposefully ignoring it because the positions are so damned simple, either you don't like what GW did or you do or you don't care.

I'm liking the Saurus, though like others I'll probably leave the braces off if it's an easy thing to do.

The Skinks, they look too derpy to me, I don't know if it's just because the eye slits are painted to be looking sideways, if the slits were angled forward maybe they'd look a bit better? Dunno. I might buy a box and use the Saurus but keep using my old Skinks...

 privateer4hire wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm liking the Saurus, though like others I'll probably leave the braces off if it's an easy thing to do.

The Skinks, they look too derpy to me, I don't know if it's just because the eye slits are painted to be looking sideways, if the slits were angled forward maybe they'd look a bit better? Dunno. I might buy a box and use the Saurus but keep using my old Skinks...

Also, that's a cool looking team!

Thanks! I went the simple path of not giving them shoulder pads and whatnot, once you hack the weapons off Skinks they're in surprisingly good poses for Blood Bowl out of the box, it's just the Saurus are a bit plain.

Hopefully those old Skinks with the new GW Saurus look okay next to each other, might need to add some loincloths and shoulder pads though.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
It's just hard to get pumped about the GW lizards when other companies are pumping out sculpts like these:



And most of their figures manage to keep that level of detail too!f

Is there any sort of resource for converting Blood Bowl stats to Blitz Bowl, or are they the same across the board?

With Blitz Bowl being a bit simpler I think I'm more likely to convince family to play it.

Looking at the page for those models, the actual prototype models don't look as good as the renders.

I'm also not a fan of the Ogre-like Saurus. I prefer the Star Player Lizardmen, though from what I've read they're too small next to GW's Blood Bowl teams. It'd be nice if there was a happy middle ground between "looks too weedy" and "looks like an ogre", lol.

Yeah the renders are for Greebo's new team, but the test prints don't look as impressive as the renders.

The Star Player ones I prefer the aesthetic, but from memory they're a bit weedy (I think those are 25mm bases they are mounted on, so the Saurus are similar size to the current human team).

I was going to buy the SP ones, but decided to wait and see what (if anything) GW would come up with.

So does anyone have an idea when the GW ones might get released?

 Easy E wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
8 more teams is end of 2021.

Just in time for edition churn..... erm, I mean a re-launch.

I would be surprised if they do a new edition at that point, they're more likely to leave it on the shelves until it dies and then bring it back in another decade or two.