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One sentence.
Relegate Superheavies, GMCs and FGMCs back to Apocalypse.

Leaving the game as it stands is a more wholesome 'fix' than OP's 'brilliant errata,' since it's clear that he cannot distinguish a symptom from an origin.
0/10, waste of an internet.

 Charistoph wrote:

Jbz` wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Exactly. All the Chapters have their own Company formations so there's no reason for defending the Gladius anymore.

... Not all of them...

Yeah my poor Flesh Tearers...

Flesh Tearers can still use Angel's Blade, right? Or is it because you can't use Seth with them?

My Templars... The black-armoured, white-pauldroned step-children of the Space Marines. No recognition of their Crusader squads at all...

Just use tactical squads, they're the same thing right /sarcasm.

I've proposed a much milder version of this. Basically, what I've proposed is:

"All rerolls shall be replaced with a +1 to the relevant roll." So a 3+ rerollable becomes a 2+, and a 2+ rerollable simply can't exist.

Suffice to say, nobody liked the idea.

Because people like the fact that 40k is broken and unfair.

 Traditio wrote:
I've proposed a much milder version of this. Basically, what I've proposed is:

"All rerolls shall be replaced with a +1 to the relevant roll." So a 3+ rerollable becomes a 2+, and a 2+ rerollable simply can't exist.

Suffice to say, nobody liked the idea.

Because people like the fact that 40k is broken and unfair.

Even those that are re-roll ones?

I think a big problem with rerolls is that they're not a linear progression, so they're hard to point.
I'll add the % chance for a roll, followed by the % chance if it becomes rerollable to demonstrate.

6+ 16.7/30.6
5+ 33.3/55.6
4+ 50.0/75.0
3+ 66.7/88.9
2+ 83.33/97.2

Generally speaking a reroll isn't too different to a simple +1, and by this system a 2+ rerollable becomes an almost guaranteed success.

koooaei wrote:Even those that are re-roll ones?

Yes.

Do the math. It's not that big of a deal.

I mean, orks would really benefit. But is that such a bad thing?

 Traditio wrote:

koooaei wrote:Even those that are re-roll ones?

Yes.

Do the math. It's not that big of a deal.

I mean, orks would really benefit. But is that such a bad thing?

benefit...how? And how would it affect blasts? Cause blasts and dls on a 2+ save is allready pretty much all the relevant re-rolls that we have...other than 'ere we go.
Bosspoles - +1 to mob rule (no, thx, it's a huge nerf - not a buff)? 'Ere we go - +1 to charge ranges? Tankhunting tankbustas +1 to...armor pen? Means they get s9? Too vague - too broad.

koooaei wrote:benefit...how?

Do the math. Would you prefer a 5+ rerollable or a 5+ that rerolls 1s?

And how would it affect blasts?

It wouldn't. Blasts don't roll to hit.

Cause blasts and dls on a 2+ save is allready pretty much all we have.

Then no change. You keep your 2+ save.

Oh, also, tankhunter on one unit. How would tankhunter re-rolls work? Bosspoles - +1 to mob rule (no, thx, it's a huge nerf - not a buff)? 'Ere we go - +1 to charge ranges? Tankhunting tankbustas +1 to...armor pen? Means they get s9?

My proposal doesn't deal with stats. It deals solely with dice rolls. A 4+ rerollable becomes a 3+. A 3+ rerollable becomes a 2+. And you can't get better than a 2+.

You may think it's a nerf. Because it is. But it's much less of a nerf than the OP.

 Traditio wrote:

Would you prefer a 5+ rerollable or a 5+ that rerolls 1s?

5+ re-rollable what?

And come to think of it, yes, it even works for tank hunters. It means that S8 auto glances rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

Would you prefer a 5+ rerollable or a 5+ that rerolls 1s?

5+ re-rollable what?

5+ rerollable anything.

Would you have a greater chance of success if you roll a d6, hope for a 5, fail, and then reroll?

Or roll a d6, hope for a 5, fail, hope that your failure is a 1, and then reroll?

I mean you said orks would benefit a lot. I'm not seeing how. Also, how would lukky stikk work?

 Charistoph wrote:

Jbz` wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Exactly. All the Chapters have their own Company formations so there's no reason for defending the Gladius anymore.

... Not all of them...

Yeah my poor Flesh Tearers...

Flesh Tearers can still use Angel's Blade, right? Or is it because you can't use Seth with them?

My Templars... The black-armoured, white-pauldroned step-children of the Space Marines. No recognition of their Crusader squads at all...

Well there was a degree of sarcasm there. I knew you were on about Templars

Yeah the Angel's blade strike force can be used to use Flesh Tearers (without Seth, similar situation to Pedro Cantor with the Crimson fists)
But it doesn't represent them very well (Blood Angels following the Codex as close as they can while Flesh Tearers have a different organizational structure due to being horrendously depleted)

Flesh Tearers have their own supplement don't they?
With the Flesh Tearers Strike Force and Vanguard Strike Force formations.
The former being pretty good at sort of getting assault marines back as troops.

Errata.
Please consult the 3rd edition of this book. If such book does not exist, please find a suitable subsitute.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
One sentence.
Relegate Superheavies, GMCs and FGMCs back to Apocalypse.

Along those lines, limiting any ARMY (not just detachment) to 1 LoW choice of any kind (IC, GMC, SHW, etc) per 1000pts could work. It allows 2 in a 2000pt game, but since most tourneys are 1850, you basically will only ever see 1 in 99% of non-Apoc games.
My biggest issue is BattleForged being a joke. It is basically Unbound + tax = loads of beneifits. I think the Gathering Storm detachments might be a sign of how 8th might fix this.
I don't know about the Imperial detahcments, but the Ynnari Reborn host requires 1 HQ & 2 Troops BEFORE you can start taking Formations.
If 8th rewords it so that Formations are no longer detachments that can be taken alone and require them to be taken in the "Meta-detachment" that most books now have, you would cut down on loads of mix-n-match armies.
Make the Combined Arms Detachment have "Formation slots" that allow you to take 2-3 formations of the same Faction
Also make a note that the required HQ can be substituted for a 3rd required Troop or Elite for armies that do not have the necessary units (so Skitari basically, because Harlies now have 2 HQ choices)

And get rid of the Allied detachment. No one really uses it now and but making the above changes, you force players to really pay for a second faction to be part of their army. And if you can only have a max of 2 detachments (but those now include Formations), you get a max of 2 Factions per army....ever (unless you use the Gathering Storm detachments).
Correct me if I am wrong, but that severely hampers Imperial multi-faction death-stars, which also cuts down on the need for getting rid of re-rolls.

 Traditio wrote:
I've proposed a much milder version of this. Basically, what I've proposed is:

"All rerolls shall be replaced with a +1 to the relevant roll." So a 3+ rerollable becomes a 2+, and a 2+ rerollable simply can't exist.

Suffice to say, nobody liked the idea.

Because people like the fact that 40k is broken and unfair.

Actually, I very much like this idea, that is why I suggested it on the prior page of this thread.

-

 Galef wrote:
Actually, I very much like this idea, that is why I suggested it on the prior page of this thread.

But didn't you suggest that it could go beyond a 2+, into a 2+/6+, 2+/5+, and so on and so forth? Which is much better, since it lets you differentiate between BS5 (a Captain) and BS5, twin-linked, Bolter Drill, and reroll ones (a Fists Captain on a Bike with that one Command Trait) or BS10.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Actually, I very much like this idea, that is why I suggested it on the prior page of this thread.

But didn't you suggest that it could go beyond a 2+, into a 2+/6+, 2+/5+, and so on and so forth? Which is much better, since it lets you differentiate between BS5 (a Captain) and BS5, twin-linked, Bolter Drill, and reroll ones (a Fists Captain on a Bike with that one Command Trait) or BS10.

That wasn't me that suggested that. Earlier I was suggesting to change Daemon of Tzeentch to grant +1 invul instead of re-rolling 1s and that this could not go past 3++ (exactly like Mark of Tzeentch)

But simply making all re-roll saving throw rules grant a flat +1 to the save instead of the re-roll would work out much better in the long run. It would benefit lower 4+/5+ saves more without breaking 2+/3+ save units.

-

My Errata: Your opponent wants to have fun too.

I think more conversations and consideration between players would eliminate SO MANY of the issues between gamers - Two beatstick players decide they want to play beatstick lists - thats all cool. exploit what is powerful and its no mercy.

People always say its unfair for a competitive player to wipe the floor with a fluffy list, but from the other perspective it is just as unfair to bring a non-competative list to play a player who wants to test themselves to the hardest degree!

Consideration and communication can go a long way.

 Jpogfreak886 wrote:
My Errata: Your opponent wants to have fun too.

I think more conversations and consideration between players would eliminate SO MANY of the issues between gamers - Two beatstick players decide they want to play beatstick lists - thats all cool. exploit what is powerful and its no mercy.

People always say its unfair for a competitive player to wipe the floor with a fluffy list, but from the other perspective it is just as unfair to bring a non-competative list to play a player who wants to test themselves to the hardest degree!

Consideration and communication can go a long way.

This people forget the the 1st rules of preparing for a game is TALKING to each other about what type of game you want.

Any single change does not do anything to balance the game. It just shifts the meta, and we get new kings in the game. You can't take a look at a broken machine or computer system that has 100 problems, choose just one, and go "yep, it works now". Maybe you even improved efficiency by 10%, but there are still 99 other problems to fix, and you may have just ensured that in a week 5 more problems pop up due to the fix.

Sure, 2++ rerollables should not be a thing. The system needs a giant simplification and rework to be fixed.