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1. GK smite was set to 1 mortal wound in a time when smite was an unlimited spell with no diminishing chances at success. Now that there are such restrictions, there is no reason for GK to have a reduced smite.

2. Using Astra Militarum as a crutch for every bad army isn't exactly good balance. You're operating under the assumption that GK actually add to AM, when in truth GK+AM soup is demonstrably worse than pure AM.

3. The tacit assumption in your post is that GK shouldn't be able to function as a standalone or pure army in 8th edition. I cannot disagree with this more. Should this be the argument applied to every struggling faction? I seem to recall a time when the best Tyranids list featured heavy AM via GSC allies. Should we have accepted at that time that Tyranids were meant to be supplemented by Guard?

Some armies are hurting in 8th edition. If you actually have a voice with GW, wouldn't it make sense to highlight some of this? We all want a balanced game, after all.

But on topic. How strict is WYSIWYG in regards to Tyranids? I have some flying hive tyrants modeled with tervigon arms to function as devourers + rending claws. Are adrenal glands physically glued onto the model a requirement? For much of 8th these bits had no function..

FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen a tournament setting on any scale really care about any sense of WYSIWYG for Nids.

My observations are pretty irrelevant to anything going on at the LVO though.

 Reecius wrote:
@andysonic1

Yeah, there is some confusion on this topic but I would not come to the LVO assuming I could use Daemon strats on anything other than units that were Daemon Faction units.

I would assume if I was a Daemon player that a Daemon FAQ would be coming out quickly on the heels of the Daemon book as has been the case with other Cdoex releases. We will look to them to answer these questions but no, I would not plan on deep-striking (or any other similar uses of stratagems) Magnus, Mortarion, the Lord of Skulls, etc. with the Daemon codex. Again, we will look to GW for official answers but as friendly advice, that would be what I would say to anyone thinking about bringing that to the LVO.

YIKES, that is going to really deflate everyone once this gets around. Thanks for the response and the, uh, warning.

 daedalus wrote:
FWIW, I don't think I've ever seen a tournament setting on any scale really care about any sense of WYSIWYG for Nids.

My observations are pretty irrelevant to anything going on at the LVO though.

Someone said somewhere in a thread i asked about a while back. Basically its just the primary weapon. Nids have lots of conversions and they get that. TS, AG, etc... don't really need to be modelled on the unit.

That being said if you have a Flyrant with 4x Devourers glued on, you cant say he has a venom cannon instead.

@Marmatag

I didn't say GK couldn't play as a stand alone army nor did I mean to imply it.

What I was trying to say was that if you want to compete at the highest level, playing ANY army pure that doesn't have effective screening mechanisms is playing on hard mode. GK are one of these.

They play just fine on their own in 8th and even competitively, in most games in a tournament, you'll do fine with pure GK. However, at the upper level of competitive play, they (and any army without effective screens) is vulnerable to alpha strike shooting/melee armies. It just is what it is, to compete you have to make some concessions in any list. I just used AM as an example, you can do it with Scouts too, or whatever.

And trust me, lol, I work my ass off to try and do whatever I can to help bring balance to the game. My (and all the play testers) efforts are just not always evident.


As for Nids, that conversion specifically will be fine. No, you don't need Adrenal Glands on the model, no one knows what they look like apart from a few of us.

However, if you were to try and say a T-Fexes' Acid Spray is actually a Rupture Cannon, that would not be OK, etc.

@Andysonic1

Trust me, lol, that is 100% for the good of the game. Brass Scorpions most assuredly do not need to be falling from the skies, lol.

@Dynas

Correct.

 Reecius wrote:
@Andysonic1

Trust me, lol, that is 100% for the good of the game. Brass Scorpions most assuredly do not need to be falling from the skies, lol.

I mean I agree with you and I wasn't planning any shenanigans. I'm just worried about the established aura interactions that we have rulings from Chapter Approved about. Should I still play under the assumption that my CSM Daemon Prince will benefit from Daemon Locus? What about my CSM Blood Slaughterer Daemon Engines?

Yeah, what I said is regarding only the stratagems.

 Reecius wrote:
Yeah, what I said is regarding only the stratagems.

Gotcha! Juuuust wanted to be sure.

The commentary on yesterday's Twitch feed talked about Daemons and their Marine counter parts and how things interacted.

Worth a listen.

1:07 on the feed:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/215648713

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
The commentary on yesterday's Twitch feed talked about Daemons and their Marine counter parts and how things interacted.

Worth a listen.

1:07 on the feed:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/215648713

Video only available to subscribers.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
The commentary on yesterday's Twitch feed talked about Daemons and their Marine counter parts and how things interacted.

Worth a listen.

1:07 on the feed:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/215648713

Actual question was asked at 1:54 by way of that link. According to my Twitch, anyway, hehe.

As I mentioned in another thread, we will see what GW has in store. I'm pretty sure the chap that answered it was one of the WHC members and not a rules expert though (I hadn't tuned in til about when I asked the question because my damn phone was acting up). Anyway, time will tell

In my humble opinion, it is powerful, but not overly so... especially with some of the other super powerful combos available to other armies...

So the FAQ will say "Deepstrike faction keyword Daemon units"?
Since there's no other way to differentiate.
That, or just a PL restriction...

What the FAQ will or will not say is up to GW, of course.

My friendly advice though, I hope is taken to heart by anyone coming to the LVO.

Again, I would assume if I were a Daemon player that the Codex Daemon stratagems will only be able to be used on Daemon Faction keyword units. Just friendly advice from me to Daemon players to consider when writing their lists for LVO.

@anticitizen013

Oh, I can tell you from experience it is mega OTT, lol. That's not conjecture either, that is from actual on the table repetitions. It is neither fun nor conducive to a fair gaming experience.

I know players will debate that to they're blue in the face but IMO for what that is worth, it is very bad for the overall game experience to allow some of the craziness that that opens up. A lot of what folks in favor of it are thinking they will do with it is a myopic perspective on the bigger picture. Lords of War, for example, don't need to be falling from the sky, etc.

At any rate, I will leave it be for now but hopefully we won't have anyone show up to LVO thinking one thing and getting another as that would be very unenjoyable for all parties involved.

 Reecius wrote:
At any rate, I will leave it be for now but hopefully we won't have anyone show up to LVO thinking one thing and getting another as that would be very unenjoyable for all parties involved.

You prolly want to make a PSA because there are several batreps, websites, and lots of players who are under the impression they will be deep striking LoW in, and I imagine plenty of those people will be at the LVO. I've been spreading the word around and it's slowly seeping in, but a PSA from you guys would cover your asses when the LVO comes around and the handful of Daemons players are coming in hot with wrong ideas.

Yeah, I am doing what I can but we have limitations within which we have to work. The official word comes from GW as we all know =)

If you can help spread the word that would be awesome.

I just don't want to have to tell someone their army doesn't work the way they think it does at the event, that would suck =(

 Reecius wrote:
@anticitizen013

Oh, I can tell you from experience it is mega OTT, lol. That's not conjecture either, that is from actual on the table repetitions. It is neither fun nor conducive to a fair gaming experience.

I know players will debate that to they're blue in the face but IMO for what that is worth, it is very bad for the overall game experience to allow some of the craziness that that opens up. A lot of what folks in favor of it are thinking they will do with it is a myopic perspective on the bigger picture. Lords of War, for example, don't need to be falling from the sky, etc.

At any rate, I will leave it be for now but hopefully we won't have anyone show up to LVO thinking one thing and getting another as that would be very unenjoyable for all parties involved.

I can see it both ways, for sure. I do think a Brass Scorpion popping out of nowhere is just a smidge ridiculous, haha. In any case, hopefully it all gets cleared up before the LVO in an 'GW official' capacity. I mean, I know it's your tournament, but it is still based on official rules

While I can't attend, I seriously can't wait for this event. I hope there's going to be some excellent coverage!

Oh yeah! We will have awesome event coverage.

Our own team lead by Mariana will be broadcasting all three days on our Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv

And GW will be covering it on Warhammer TV!

So if you can't make it, you should be able to watch the fun.

 anticitizen013 wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
The commentary on yesterday's Twitch feed talked about Daemons and their Marine counter parts and how things interacted.

Worth a listen.

1:07 on the feed:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/215648713

Actual question was asked at 1:54 by way of that link. According to my Twitch, anyway, hehe.

As I mentioned in another thread, we will see what GW has in store. I'm pretty sure the chap that answered it was one of the WHC members and not a rules expert though (I hadn't tuned in til about when I asked the question because my damn phone was acting up). Anyway, time will tell

In my humble opinion, it is powerful, but not overly so... especially with some of the other super powerful combos available to other armies...

So it’s ok because you think it’s not totally OP? Really now.

I definitely understand and agree with what you're saying. There's a whole discussion to be had around GK's problems, from screens to offensive capabilities, but that's probably not best had here anyway. Short answer is I agree. Sorry for sounding off.

In regards to hive fleet marking on Tyranids, would differently colored bases be sufficient? For instance, if a red ring is painted around a base that means Kronos, and if a blue ring that means Kraken? As long as it is also written down on the army sheet/list?

Each fleet units should have its own colors.

 Reecius wrote:
Oh yeah! We will have awesome event coverage.

Our own team lead by Mariana will be broadcasting all three days on our Twitch channel: https://www.twitch.tv/frontlinegaming_tv

And GW will be covering it on Warhammer TV!

So if you can't make it, you should be able to watch the fun.

Awesome! Thanks for the info

Can't wait!

Edit: I don't know why the Tyranid colour discussion above reminded me but I saw one of your podcast thingies a little while ago where you talked about a dude who used Count Chocula marshmallows on his bases. I died laughing haha.

 Primark G wrote:
Each fleet units should have its own colors.

Is this the official LVO stance? It has to be different colored miniatures? Base colors / markings are not enough, even if they are clear?

From the ITC 8th Edition Guidelines

When using detachments in your army that contain models with different <Bracket> Faction Keywords, then they must be easily distinguished from other, similar faction models.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bUs0HrJ3f6YzR6mWlT1LRLq0i9_0ekf7ah9WhCTxsIo/edit#

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Reecius wrote:
At any rate, I will leave it be for now but hopefully we won't have anyone show up to LVO thinking one thing and getting another as that would be very unenjoyable for all parties involved.

You prolly want to make a PSA because there are several batreps, websites, and lots of players who are under the impression they will be deep striking LoW in, and I imagine plenty of those people will be at the LVO. I've been spreading the word around and it's slowly seeping in, but a PSA from you guys would cover your asses when the LVO comes around and the handful of Daemons players are coming in hot with wrong ideas.

Until GW says otherwise, they CAN do it. So at this time any PSA is jumping the gun.

 quickfuze wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Reecius wrote:
At any rate, I will leave it be for now but hopefully we won't have anyone show up to LVO thinking one thing and getting another as that would be very unenjoyable for all parties involved.

You prolly want to make a PSA because there are several batreps, websites, and lots of players who are under the impression they will be deep striking LoW in, and I imagine plenty of those people will be at the LVO. I've been spreading the word around and it's slowly seeping in, but a PSA from you guys would cover your asses when the LVO comes around and the handful of Daemons players are coming in hot with wrong ideas.

Until GW says otherwise, they CAN do it. So at this time any PSA is jumping the gun.

Listen, it's been six months since 8th came out. Every time there's been some obviously exploitable rule or model combination, the Frontline Gaming guys have oh so gently hinted that players should not exploit it or go out and buy models based on it. And every single time within a few weeks this exploit is patched out. If you want to completely ignore the past six months worth of evidence surrounding loopholes in the rules and Frontline Gaming's response to them, you do so at your own peril.

@Quickfuze

Play however you want, friend. I am not here to debate the rules. Just don't expect to play it that way at the LVO. Normally I wouldn't say anything like this but with the timing of things wanted to give people as much of a warning as possible. You may disagree with what I am saying which is fine (and frankly irrelevant) but my only concern here is to prepare people for what they should expect at our event so everyone has fun and doesn't get an unpleasant surprise.

@Thread

Yeah, we've been saying since 8th ed came out that people should prepare to differentiate their different "Chapters" or sub-factions within their army. As noted in the link above, that can be a unique paint scheme, basing, etc. It just has to be readily apparent to your opponent which "chapter" is which, or in this case, which hive fleet is which, at a glance. No exceptions will be made for this, we've been telling folks from literally day 1, lol.

Also, again, DO NOT try to play with unpainted models at the event. We've been doing everything we can to broadcast this, too. Judges will pull models off of the table that are not painted to a 3 color minimum and based.

Hey Reecius, will registration be open on Thursday the 25th, and if so what time?

 Reecius wrote:
@Quickfuze

Play however you want, friend. I am not here to debate the rules. Just don't expect to play it that way at the LVO. Normally I wouldn't say anything like this but with the timing of things wanted to give people as much of a warning as possible. You may disagree with what I am saying which is fine (and frankly irrelevant) but my only concern here is to prepare people for what they should expect at our event so everyone has fun and doesn't get an unpleasant surprise.

@Thread

Yeah, we've been saying since 8th ed came out that people should prepare to differentiate their different "Chapters" or sub-factions within their army. As noted in the link above, that can be a unique paint scheme, basing, etc. It just has to be readily apparent to your opponent which "chapter" is which, or in this case, which hive fleet is which, at a glance. No exceptions will be made for this, we've been telling folks from literally day 1, lol.

Also, again, DO NOT try to play with unpainted models at the event. We've been doing everything we can to broadcast this, too. Judges will pull models off of the table that are not painted to a 3 color minimum and based.

Cool story bro..."play however you like", I like to play by those things called rules. If GW faq it, that's fine.. until then you have no debate. However it is definitely your event so play by whatever"house rules" you desire

@WrenTheFaceless

Yes, it will be open from 6 to 8pm if you want to beat the crowds on Friday, which I highly recommend.

Reecius has been on point with the rules and I really respect that a lot.