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Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Unfortunately, having a Tempestor Prime in one detachment doesn't let you take a Command Squad in the other.

It's an interesting list, kind of all over the place in terms of short and long range, mostly short ranged? Have you been playing with this list so far?

Today I came up with what I believe will by my TAC 2000p:

++99th Noctis++
++Mars Battalion++
250 Cawl
52 Enginseer
45 5 vanguard
40 5 rangers
40 5 rangers
660 6 kastelan robots
140 neutron onager
140 neutron onager

++Elysian Vanguard++
41 Elysian commander, bolter
41 Elysian commander, bolter
56 Elysian command squad, 4 plasma
56 Elysian command squad, 4 plasma
51 Elysian special weapon squad, 3 plasma
51 Elysian special weapon squad, 3 plasma
70 Eversor

++Cadian Spearhead++
30 Cadian commander, relic, warlord
24 Cadian heavy bolter tarantula
24 Cadian heavy bolter tarantula
91 Cadian earthshaker carriage, 4 crew
91 Cadian earthshaker carriage, 4 crew

8 command points, recycles command points 5+ when you or opponent use one. 7 points remaining. Any glaring weaknesses? I have tested a similar list to great effect, but have not tried the new Imperial Guard and Elysians in place of Tempestus Scions yet.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/04 06:26:29


ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

My only problem with Ballistari is that I look at them and then remember that Dunecrawlers are a thing. Dragoons are great at what they do. Dunecrawlers are great at what they do. Ballistari are solid. But Admech's options are so limited that they can't really afford to run solid units most of the time.

A Ballistari might be worth considering with the last 75-95 points you've got going for you if you can't fit another crawler. But otherwise, I wouldn't bother.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 06:07:02


 
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine






 ph34r wrote:
Unfortunately, having a Tempestor Prime in one detachment doesn't let you take a Command Squad in the other.

It's an interesting list, kind of all over the place in terms of short and long range, mostly short ranged? Have you been playing with this list so far?

Today I came up with what I believe will by my TAC 2000p:

...


IMO don't split your kastelans, you want to activate WoM on a big Kastelan squad...

Thanks for telling me about the Tempestor Prime, I'll have to figure out how I'll change things... I think I'll cut the primaris psykers and move the Tempestor back to the Vanguard Detachment.

I don't like the Eversor, that's only because I've never been in a situation where he would be of use. I'd rather take out the horde than take out the dude that keeps their leadership high, though.

Have you considered Wyverns over the Earthshakers? Try some math out and see which one is best for the task you want to accomplish.

I'm going to playtest my list out this upcoming weekend. I can post results for the data collection. The Omnissiah wills it!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/04 06:19:58


 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Wyvern, I had not considered yet. That's a unit that came out while I wasn't playing 40k, I'll give it a look.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So, I decided to really try playing to our strengths and doing something differently. I not only dropped Cawl and mars, going full Stygies, I dropped my kastalens. Interestingly enough, I found my list actually felt stronger for it, and hell of a lot more fun. Some observations:

Dragoons and infiltrators complement each other in a number of ways. The one I found particularly nice is deepstriking my infiltrators near an enemy my dragoons are in range to charge, having the infiltrators shoot, then letting the dragoons charge to tie them up and avoid a counter attack/overwatch. This is also one of the situations where I can get my infiltrators close enough for a guaranteed charge the next turn, while still keeping them 12" away from any model that could shoot at them, meaning the Stygies trait kicks in.

You could probably pull the same strategy off with Lucius shooty priests, protecting them the turn they drop in to hopefully get a second round of shooting and maybe melee. Wouldn't be an awful usage of them, and if you drop Cawl and the Kastalens like I did you list opens up a lot in terms of options.

Infiltrators also absolutely butcher light infantry point for point. I forgot how badly they outperform Kastalens for cost when you can actually get them into the fray. Really cost effective, and the dragoon delivery method solves a lot of issues I had with them in practice.

I used a tech priest to cart around the omniscient mask, mostly because I found it was fun trying to keep him in range relic and healing range of my dragoons and infiltrators. What I found interesting is that, if you stick a character out in the open with a relic, people will target him. Which probably doesn't sound like a good idea, but he was 52 points for the model and a cp for the relic, if my opponent wants to spend three lascannon shots killing him I'd say that's a fair trade. I might try this with some datasmiths in the future. People are so conditioned to protect/target characters right now.

Our army is absurdly tough, particularly if we have CP to burn. Our tanks can ignore mortal wounds and get healed for 7 damage a round with stratagems+relics, or just ignore what battle damage we take. Combine that with a 2+ save on our dunecrawlers and 3+ on almost everything else the first two turns (the cover canticle+ Recycle stratagem), and Stygies reducing incoming fire, and we can really shut down/negate alpha strikes of every variety. I think it will be particularly helpful post IG codex. Five russes with battle cannon and lascannon would struggle to take out a single onager, and if they don't manage it it'll be on at least it's second tier of wounds by the time our repair crew is done. I really enjoy not having to play the alpha strike game myself. It's refreshing.

Spoiler:
++Stygies Brigad++
Dominus (with the healing WT and relic)
2 tech priests (one with mask)
6x5 rangers
3x5 infiltrators
4x2 dragoons
4 onagers with neutron laser


I did also consider dropping a a few things to help make room for my crusader. The extra dragoons, onager, or maybe a set of infiltrators replaced by a datasmith for a laugh.



   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Elysians are such BS. I ordered some bolt action minis that I will convert into elysian style models. Their rules are just a joke. Everything about them scream "FAQ ME". But whatevs. If I am driving to the socal open then I am going to use elysians unless the rules are killed.
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Wulfey wrote:
Elysians are such BS. I ordered some bolt action minis that I will convert into elysian style models. Their rules are just a joke. Everything about them scream "FAQ ME". But whatevs. If I am driving to the socal open then I am going to use elysians unless the rules are killed.

These are the Forge World units that need a FW FAQ to bring them in line with Astra Militarum? Raised points for plasma etc?

I have never supported the banning of Forge World models from competitive play, but there is a rift opening up between the speed GW are able to "patch" their products by releasing Codexes and FAQs... and Forge World's ability to keep pace with that.

From the outside it seems trivial for Forge World to put out a PDF simultaneously with each GW release, addressing some of the core changes... but I guess they are really struggling to keep up.

TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.

Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

Let's hope the reason that they're struggling to keep up is because they're devoting so many resources to Fires of Cyraxus.



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut






 Verviedi wrote:
Let's hope the reason that they're struggling to keep up is because they're devoting so many resources to Fires of Cyraxus.

Adeptus Mechanicus and devoting resources
Anyways, how do you guys think FoC will help? What units do you really think would make a difference?
   
Made in pl
Sister Oh-So Repentia





 Kandela wrote:
 Verviedi wrote:
Let's hope the reason that they're struggling to keep up is because they're devoting so many resources to Fires of Cyraxus.

Adeptus Mechanicus and devoting resources
Anyways, how do you guys think FoC will help? What units do you really think would make a difference?



via Imgflip Meme Generator


We have to get something better for screening. Death guard level of durability, since models in 30k aren't horde stylish, so i don't expect cannon fodder. Other than that we need thrallax to be able to compete with leman russes, with are crazy god now. Also hq that isn't healbot would be nice to mitigate hq tax and give options.

So to sum it up, I don't have high hopes even with FIRES OF CYRAXUS.
(this book is meme right now xD)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 14:23:52


1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.” 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

The book was meme long before this. I may or may not have been threatened with death over talking about it too much.

And several people are convinced I want to that book, as well. I don’t, I’m just VERY PASSIONATE about it releasing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 16:01:34




Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




As a heads-up to anyone going to the SoCal open, the Elysian plamsa will most likely be D2 like it was at BAO. Points wise though, it's probably not going to change unless FW does something. Elysians are pretty cheap points-wise
   
Made in us
Mindless Servitor





SilverAlien wrote:
So, I decided to really try playing to our strengths and doing something differently. I not only dropped Cawl and mars, going full Stygies, I dropped my kastalens. Interestingly enough, I found my list actually felt stronger for it, and hell of a lot more fun. Some observations:

Dragoons and infiltrators complement each other in a number of ways. The one I found particularly nice is deepstriking my infiltrators near an enemy my dragoons are in range to charge, having the infiltrators shoot, then letting the dragoons charge to tie them up and avoid a counter attack/overwatch. This is also one of the situations where I can get my infiltrators close enough for a guaranteed charge the next turn, while still keeping them 12" away from any model that could shoot at them, meaning the Stygies trait kicks in.

You could probably pull the same strategy off with Lucius shooty priests, protecting them the turn they drop in to hopefully get a second round of shooting and maybe melee. Wouldn't be an awful usage of them, and if you drop Cawl and the Kastalens like I did you list opens up a lot in terms of options.

Infiltrators also absolutely butcher light infantry point for point. I forgot how badly they outperform Kastalens for cost when you can actually get them into the fray. Really cost effective, and the dragoon delivery method solves a lot of issues I had with them in practice.

I used a tech priest to cart around the omniscient mask, mostly because I found it was fun trying to keep him in range relic and healing range of my dragoons and infiltrators. What I found interesting is that, if you stick a character out in the open with a relic, people will target him. Which probably doesn't sound like a good idea, but he was 52 points for the model and a cp for the relic, if my opponent wants to spend three lascannon shots killing him I'd say that's a fair trade. I might try this with some datasmiths in the future. People are so conditioned to protect/target characters right now.

Our army is absurdly tough, particularly if we have CP to burn. Our tanks can ignore mortal wounds and get healed for 7 damage a round with stratagems+relics, or just ignore what battle damage we take. Combine that with a 2+ save on our dunecrawlers and 3+ on almost everything else the first two turns (the cover canticle+ Recycle stratagem), and Stygies reducing incoming fire, and we can really shut down/negate alpha strikes of every variety. I think it will be particularly helpful post IG codex. Five russes with battle cannon and lascannon would struggle to take out a single onager, and if they don't manage it it'll be on at least it's second tier of wounds by the time our repair crew is done. I really enjoy not having to play the alpha strike game myself. It's refreshing.

Spoiler:
++Stygies Brigad++
Dominus (with the healing WT and relic)
2 tech priests (one with mask)
6x5 rangers
3x5 infiltrators
4x2 dragoons
4 onagers with neutron laser


I did also consider dropping a a few things to help make room for my crusader. The extra dragoons, onager, or maybe a set of infiltrators replaced by a datasmith for a laugh.





This was something I heard echoed by one of the 40K podcasts I've been listening to (I want to say it was Forge the Narrative). Basically, that the Codex made Ad Mech a very durable, defensive army.

Thanks for posting the list and your experiences. I was experimenting last night with a Stygies/Lucius list on paper and came up with (for the point cost of a knight) a unit of 4 punchy kastellans with combusters, deep striking into a gun line to unload 4D6 flamer S5 -1 1dmg flamer hits and 24 of their S10 attacks per turn after switching into punch-mode.

Hands down, the knight outshone the Kastellans in the shooting phase, but in combat the 4 pairs of fists vs. a Reaper Chainsword and feet came down to approx. 6 1/2 damage 3 hits going through on a T8, 3+sv target from the Kastellans vs. 1.5 6 damage sword wounding hits and around 1 2 damage foot stomp (the numbers are from memory; I'll have to look at the exacts again after work).
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun




Is FoC specifically a forgeworld 30k to 40k book? I mean there's loads of 30k stuff they could port, but Tau werent even around in the heresy days so everything they get would be totally new. I know there's a whole bunch of 30k models without 40k rules that makes it a much cheaper and efficient means of adding new models to our army. The thing is, the 30k stuff is ALL essentially cult mech, it's virtually all automatons which are largely frowned upon 'these days'.

I'd expect us to get a thallax-like option, just because our 'tank' options are currently the most limited of our offering. Hell i'd accept a weapon upgrade kit for Kastelans. It would be nice for us to have our own properly heavy weapon option, dunecrawlers have a single proper heavy weapon and an icarus array. They're essentially medium tanks. A much bigger heavier dunecrawler would be awesome, like a six-legged heavy walker akin to those in ghost in the shell or something but with lots of weapon options. because really the eradication beamer needs to be 2d6 shots at range to make it worth taking and the twin heavy phosphor option is a waste of space on dunecrawlers. It'sd be nice to get some heavy volkite guns or darkfire etc, the 30k gun technologies brought up to date.

I dont really want more screening options specifically. Thats a want borne from the current meta and not necessarily what I feel the army is all about. I'd prefer to have more options to remove or tie up threats before they get to us. I dont want my army to become a copy of another with a different skin. Again 30k has potential options for this. Be nice if we got vorax with a bunch of spammy weak attacks, like a squad of 20 with 3-4 attacks and some charging shenanegans. Much rather have the option to take the fight to my opponents spam than wait for it to come and try and fight spam with spam (that we dont have)
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





'Erryferd

Octovol wrote:
Is FoC specifically a forgeworld 30k to 40k book? I mean there's loads of 30k stuff they could port, but Tau werent even around in the heresy days so everything they get would be totally new. I know there's a whole bunch of 30k models without 40k rules that makes it a much cheaper and efficient means of adding new models to our army. The thing is, the 30k stuff is ALL essentially cult mech, it's virtually all automatons which are largely frowned upon 'these days'.

-snip


It's a campaign book based around Tau invading a forge world (in the 41st millenium), with the AdMech forces basically having a rummage around in the basement and finding a load of cool toys to shoot back with.
The Imperial Armour books are there to port compatible rules for Forgeworld's stuff to the same game everyone else is playing.

~0110~ ~1001~
6.4k Taghmata
4.8k Morskitarii
1.9k Robots
1.7k Cult Mech'
1.3k Skitarii
1.1k Mek Nonsense

Primaris Marines
Archmagos Gramm Dyrbax
Boltscurry's Bhiranauts 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Wulfey wrote:
Elysians are such BS. I ordered some bolt action minis that I will convert into elysian style models. Their rules are just a joke. Everything about them scream "FAQ ME". But whatevs. If I am driving to the socal open then I am going to use elysians unless the rules are killed.

The issue is that FW was rushed to get their stuff done for 8th, and overall keeping them in line with Guard prices. If Guard were more fairly priced in the first place, Elysians would've been too to an extent. Scions get cooler rules about landing an additional shot on a 6 to hit though when in their own detachment so...

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





 Kandela wrote:
 Verviedi wrote:
Let's hope the reason that they're struggling to keep up is because they're devoting so many resources to Fires of Cyraxus.

Adeptus Mechanicus and devoting resources
Anyways, how do you guys think FoC will help? What units do you really think would make a difference?


We'll have horribly balanced FW toys too? And transports?

3000
4000 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

 Kandela wrote:
 Verviedi wrote:
Let's hope the reason that they're struggling to keep up is because they're devoting so many resources to Fires of Cyraxus.

Adeptus Mechanicus and devoting resources
Anyways, how do you guys think FoC will help? What units do you really think would make a difference?


Triaros. Tech-Thralls (if we get them). Additional HQs and a new FW with its own traits and whatnot.

Thanatar might be good to, to help increase our abundance of high toughness models.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
Elysians are such BS. I ordered some bolt action minis that I will convert into elysian style models. Their rules are just a joke. Everything about them scream "FAQ ME". But whatevs. If I am driving to the socal open then I am going to use elysians unless the rules are killed.

The issue is that FW was rushed to get their stuff done for 8th, and overall keeping them in line with Guard prices. If Guard were more fairly priced in the first place, Elysians would've been too to an extent. Scions get cooler rules about landing an additional shot on a 6 to hit though when in their own detachment so...


Say I have two models on my hobby table. (1) is a proper looking Scion with a converted admeched plasma gun [24 points] and (2) a sloppily kitbashed Elysian with my unusable but magnetized and well painted secutarii flechette blaster as plasma gun [14 points]. Why do I bring the 24 point model to a 2 day, 6 game tournament when I could bring the 14 point model? Contrast these two support battalions for my Cawl/Dakkastar. (2) feels decisively stronger. Assume my goal is to provide the best possible screen and deep strike to protect my Cawl/Dakkastar. EDIT: I am assuming Elysian plasma rifles are also damage 2 on overcharge.

(1) guard spam battalion [40 screen, 10 plasma rifles, 1 plasPistol, 505 points, conscripts get regiment bonus and scions get their reroll wound order]
Spoiler:

Prime 40 0
Prime 40 0
Scion Command 36 60
Scion Command 36 60
Scion Troop 45 30 5 2
Conscripts 60
Conscripts 60
Commisar 30 1


(2) elysian rules abuse battalion [60 screen, 14 plasma rifles, 505 points, no regiment bonus for conscripts]
Spoiler:

ElyOfficer 40 0
ElyOfficer 40 0
Conscripts 60 0
Conscripts 60 0
Conscripts 60 0
Ely Comsquad 28 28
Ely Comsquad 28 28
Commisar 30 1
ElyWeaponSquad 30 21
ElyWeaponSquad 30 21

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 19:10:37


 
   
Made in gb
Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





'Erryferd

 Kandela wrote:
 Verviedi wrote:
Let's hope the reason that they're struggling to keep up is because they're devoting so many resources to Fires of Cyraxus.

Adeptus Mechanicus and devoting resources
Anyways, how do you guys think FoC will help? What units do you really think would make a difference?


The core Jetpack units: Thallax, Arlatax, and Rocketeer magi.
My goodness can you have fun with an eniterly 12" movement Taghmata army. Nice to have a working flipside to the usual slow plodding of the rest of the stuff.
Likewise, it'd be nice to have proper rapid-response units with them, and tough ones at that.

But what'd really do it for me? Macrocarid Explorators.
For I have 4 of them.

I always included at least one with an on-board repair crew. Nothing quite like the can of worms that is somehow cracking one of those open. All those S8 spanners...
The epitamy of a boulder on the board. Takes our current repair shenanigans to the max, if they're insane enough to allow repairs to be done from the inside.
I suppose the only thing that'd actually compete with that for staying power would be some Necron malarkey, although that is their shtick.

Not sure sure we actually need as tough a nut as Macrocarids, but something about their reliability sees me imagining the resultant increased effectiveness of, most particularly, our elites (Stickarians), save them falling under a stiff breeze.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 19:44:39


~0110~ ~1001~
6.4k Taghmata
4.8k Morskitarii
1.9k Robots
1.7k Cult Mech'
1.3k Skitarii
1.1k Mek Nonsense

Primaris Marines
Archmagos Gramm Dyrbax
Boltscurry's Bhiranauts 
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine






Oh, the glory that would be a 10 man Rusty squad pouring out of a transport for 8" movement + a charge.

I also really would like to employ a Thallax squad, an Ursarax squad, and a Thanatar into my lists.

 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




So lets face it most of our dogmas are not that great. For the sake of being the utmost effective, would it be a good idea to mix forgeworlds within a detachment?I mean mars basically sucks, we want wrath of mars. Ryza blows but the plasma stratagem is neat as it is with graia and their anti psi stratagem or agrapinaa with bringing back servitors. Same might work for wl traits and relics. Thoughts?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Iago40k wrote:
So lets face it most of our dogmas are not that great. For the sake of being the utmost effective, would it be a good idea to mix forgeworlds within a detachment?I mean mars basically sucks, we want wrath of mars. Ryza blows but the plasma stratagem is neat as it is with graia and their anti psi stratagem or agrapinaa with bringing back servitors. Same might work for wl traits and relics. Thoughts?


Interesting idea. Truthfully the only thing I see that's really useful is running Cawl, his Kastalens, and a bundle of Lucius electro priests in a single detachment. Mars isn't that great tbh, particularly not when rerolling ones is redundant and you can use the cover canticle on the first two turns anyways. Lucius is literally useless for the electropriests so that's no loss. It'll make whatever you use to fill the rest of the detachment weaker, but not by much.

I guess you could have a dominus with the Ryza warlord trait on the axe and grab the psuedogenetor, if you were wanting a beatstick HQ to run around hitting stuff. Not as good as Cawl at it though.

 kinetoscopic wrote:
This was something I heard echoed by one of the 40K podcasts I've been listening to (I want to say it was Forge the Narrative). Basically, that the Codex made Ad Mech a very durable, defensive army.


Yeah, it's a little odd because we aren't quite the same sort of defensive as a lot of other armies. At least, my version isn't, it relies on dragoons and infiltrators to counter assault and slow down enemies more than just having bodies on the field.

Octovol wrote:
I dont really want more screening options specifically. Thats a want borne from the current meta and not necessarily what I feel the army is all about. I'd prefer to have more options to remove or tie up threats before they get to us. I dont want my army to become a copy of another with a different skin. Again 30k has potential options for this. Be nice if we got vorax with a bunch of spammy weak attacks, like a squad of 20 with 3-4 attacks and some charging shenanegans. Much rather have the option to take the fight to my opponents spam than wait for it to come and try and fight spam with spam (that we dont have)


Wow don't be mean to my tech thralls they are good boys who just want to be spacemen.

In all seriousness, I'm not sure how we avoid making our army more diverse without leeching concepts off others. One of our most unique traits is our lack of transports for example, and everyone seems eager to be rid of that. I like the focus on more mobile infantry and walkers rather than using transports constantly myself. But we will likely get a little bit of everything when forge works brings it out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 22:47:27


 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm really wanting:
Thallax, for mobile heavy infantry,
Krios, for more than one tank option
Macroarid, because its an awesome looking transport
30k Magos with customisation (picking biologis, lacrimosa etc
Thanatar, for big beep boops
Myrmidons, because GW are too afraid to make Kataphrons orthwhile


But at this point I assume that FoC is like Half Life 3 and plastic sisters - everytime someone mentions it, it gets delayed another month. Current delivery date is somewhere around Feb 2113 I'd say.
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest






 kinetoscopic wrote:

This was something I heard echoed by one of the 40K podcasts I've been listening to (I want to say it was Forge the Narrative). Basically, that the Codex made Ad Mech a very durable, defensive army.

Thanks for posting the list and your experiences. I was experimenting last night with a Stygies/Lucius list on paper and came up with (for the point cost of a knight) a unit of 4 punchy kastellans with combusters, deep striking into a gun line to unload 4D6 flamer S5 -1 1dmg flamer hits and 24 of their S10 attacks per turn after switching into punch-mode.

Hands down, the knight outshone the Kastellans in the shooting phase, but in combat the 4 pairs of fists vs. a Reaper Chainsword and feet came down to approx. 6 1/2 damage 3 hits going through on a T8, 3+sv target from the Kastellans vs. 1.5 6 damage sword wounding hits and around 1 2 damage foot stomp (the numbers are from memory; I'll have to look at the exacts again after work).

I mentioned this a few pages back. We're no longer the best shooting army, but we're definitely the most durable one. I can see pure Stygies replacing Mars+Stygies in the future. (Rushing Kastelans in and rooting them would be suicidal against a tank army.)

I almost never recommend using a Chainsword. The only Knight where I would even consider it is the Knight Errant, and that is because Gauntlet and TC occupy the exact same space. The Chainsword gives up a bit of anti-tank for better use against high wound, low toughness targets like Tau Commanders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/04 23:34:51


 
   
Made in pl
Sister Oh-So Repentia





SilverAlien wrote:


In all seriousness, I'm not sure how we avoid making our army more diverse without leeching concepts off others. One of our most unique traits is our lack of transports for example, and everyone seems eager to be rid of that. I like the focus on more mobile infantry and walkers rather than using transports constantly myself. But we will likely get a little bit of everything when forge works brings it out.


So does Tyrannids. But they have other means of deliver thing through battlefield. It's not about taking things from other list, but giving us options to build TAC list and have synergy in our army. Fulgurites without means of delivery are just trash. it would be good if every army had one option that it is best at, but is almost necessary for every one to have wide spectrum of tools. They should wary in quality, but should be there nonetheless.

1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.” 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I really don't like knights in AM lists. Knights just make an easy to counter lascannon target. The melee ones are the worst and have almost no chance to get back their points. The Dsword and Dfist are always, ALWAYS less damage over all than a gun arm. The titanic feet are superior against every T7 target compared to the melee arms. THe melee arms are only decent against T8 models who are awful in melee (land raiders).

Contrast a 585 point full up crusader (the best knight equip) versus 4 onagers (580 points). Sure, the knight is better in combat, but the onagers bring twice as many wounds and substantially better firepower. And you can heal the onagers easier. And the onagers don't need a command point every turn to stay useful (rotate ion shields and the ignore damage one). If the Onagers are MARS, then they have much better accuracy than the knight thanks to cawl. If the Onagers are STYGIES, then they are dramatically tougher thanks to the -1 to hit.

EDIT: watch this knight paladin in this video. Imagine if he had 3 onagers instead of that paladin. Or more robots. Or way, way more dragoons. Or hell, even some ballistari.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXWl6Zb_Rr8&t=2s

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/04 23:50:02


 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest






As I stated in my write-up, bringing a lone Knight to your army is a waste. You have to build your list around Knights to make it work at all.
   
Made in pl
Sister Oh-So Repentia





Yup, even Prophyrion doesn't match onagers per point value. One knight/baneblade isn't enough redundancy to work. They will destroy you before you could destroy everything that could really hurt him

1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.” 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I have been going over that Forgeworld Eylsian codex again. I am thinking that I am not going to bring conscripts now. Hear me out.

Conscripts: 60 points for 20 wounds that hit on a 5+ with LD4
3x Elysian sniper teams: 63 points for 18 wounds that hit on a 3+, can deep strike, and have 9 sniper rifles.

Why am I bringing conscripts? If I scratch build out of Elysian snipers, those things can be just as beefy but more morale and overkill proof of screen. Or they can deepstrike. And they can always take orders. and NINE SNIPER RIFLES WTF

This is my current thinking:

Cawl Mars Battalion - 6 bots, 2 dragoons, 20 ranger/vanguard
Elysian vanguard - 2 commanders, 2 plasma teams, 3 sniper teams
Elysian vanguard - 1 commander, 1 plasma team, 4 sniper teams

When I need a fat screen, I put the snipers on the table. When screens don't matter, I can hit any character in the game with deep striking snipers. Check the pdf out. ELysian snipers are 5 points a model, but each model has 2 wounds!
   
 
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