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 vipoid wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I'm willing to give them a shot. I feel like The HGC Stalker and DD arks going down is pretty big, and may be enough to swing us up quite a bit.

Maybe, but as someone who can't stand the Doomsday Ark, you'll forgive me if it getting a points reduction doesn't exactly fill me with enthusiasm.


In fact, that's kind of the issue for me. I don't mind playing relatively weak armies, but the problem with Necrons is that I just find them boring at the moment. There's something about their current design that just saps away all my enthusiasm, and I'm afraid no amount of point reductions is likely to change that.

IMO the current Codex is the one with the worst design in the history of Necron codices, the only thing keeping me on board is how well 8th has been designed (even if the rules aren't perfect, the design philosophy is great).

Doctoralex wrote:
Ok, so I currently have the following list for +- 1800 points with the CA changes:

2x cloaktek
Lord

3x 5 T. Immortals

6 Wraiths
9x Tomb Blades
6x Destroyers
3x Scarabs

3x DDA.


What should i do with the spare 200 points?

I'd cut a cloaktek and 3 Scarabs and run another 6 Destroyers. No real reason to run 2 Cloakteks is there? It's a lot of pts for not a lot of damage output, if you fail to keep everyone within range every turn, so what? You've got another 85 pts of actual units in your army that can do stuff. You're losing a CP also, but I don't think that's a problem in your list. A Triarch Stalker and a bunch more Scarabs would be decent if you don't want to let go of your 9th CP. Sidegrading a Cryptek to an Overlord and getting 2x10 Tesla Immortals is also another good option.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Part of the issue with just points drops is that it also only really scales into something meaningful at larger point games. At 2500 you might be getting 300 points back for other stuff, good for you. At 2000 you might be getting around 150-200 back on average, cool I guess. My group plays at 1500 as do the local tournaments here- 1500 is also the standard for the game outside of the biggest tournaments. I'm looking at, *at best*, around 40 points coming back to me from these drops.

At that level basically none of the units that were bad before are worth taking now. Maybe a triarch stalker, but that's it. And at 1500 I can't rely on double detachments and the like to farm CP's.

I mean, sure, "something is better then nothing", but how much am I actually gaining in power boost from just these points drops?

Were you using a Vault or what? Which list specifically only gets you 40 pts more to play with?

The above list is 1750 in today's points, next week you can bring it to your 1500 pt games. This is a very decent list today per Necron standards and you will crush many opponents with this list next week. You have plenty of CP with this list, the Mephrit Strat is pretty bad so all you have is an extra relic, Quantum Deflection, Phaeron's Will, Insane Heroism and re-rolls.

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Now that Knights stayed the same and almost every faction got some nice point drops I guess the Seraptek is overpriced right now. Especially since the Pylon went down to under 500.

A Novokh Seraptek Heavy Construct is the single most dangerous model in melee in the entire game as far as I'm aware. But we've seen a lot of changes in favour of more special weapons, no nerf to the Castellan, no nerf to Jinx/Doom which means the Construct is if anything, even less likely to live long enough to justify its cost. I don't know about the Pylon, I've had a lot of good experiences with it, but also a signifigant amount of bad experiences. Not taking it in a competitive setting is going to be hard now that's down to its original cost and it's almost certainly a better anti-Knight option than a Seraptek Heavy Construct, however, the Gauss Pylon can't deal with a Daemon Primarch as effectively, it is useless against hordes, multiple characters and it doesn't have a chance to destroy 2 Leman Russ tanks in one turn.

 _Ness wrote:
Any thoughts about the Praetorians? Are they worthy now?

They aren't bad if you're playing against MEQ and your opponent isn't spamming D2 or d3 weapons. Now that Intercessors are going to be able to equip their Sergeants with power fists I think that's less of a strong match-up than you might initially expect. You're likely to see fewer Cultists which means less Daemon Princes hanging out behind Cultists and coming out to slaughter your elite Infantry, although that threat still exists with Plague Bearers and Tzaangors. I'd say no, the only thing I have good experience against is against Blood Angels and Tomb Blades are as good a counter to them as Praetorians are. They're a little cheaper than Tomb Blades with Gauss Blasters and no bonus equipment now, but with the lower cost of plasma guns and the lack of nerfs to dakka Knights I think Tomb Blades with Gauss do most things Praetorians do better. Tomb Blades can even hold Knights in place in melee with just 3 models remaining, I can imagine situations where that is very important.

I think it's safe to say that Praetorians aren't going to be tearing up the competitive scene, but I've had a ton of fun with Praetorians both in the Index and Codex, they're one of my favourite units, so if your opponents aren't bringing too many Disintegrator Ravagers or Hive Guard I'd say go ahead and buy them if you like the models or bring them if you've been holding off because of their previously horrendous price. One thing that is important to keep in mind is how balanced 8th is, by that I mean how much more important it is to know your meta than it was in 7th were a net-list was much more likely to win you games based purely on how OP it was, if your opponent isn't bringing the right counters for Triarch Praetorians, if you learn to abuse the Charge, Pile In and Consolidation Step and abuse enemy units by taking them hostage Praetorians could be very good for you, Tomb Blades can probably just do those thing better.

dapperbandit wrote:
On the other hand, something that Praetorians can do and Wraiths can't is charge fliers.

Good point, but with D1 and most Flyers being T6-7 that's still pretty meh. I'd rather ignore them and try to get rid of the rest of my opponent's army. I've lost games because of trying to hit a Flyer with a -1, same applies when trying to put an anti-MEQ unit against a Vehicle. Using them as a spring-board by charging them and then piling into other units is an option only available to Spyders, Scarabs and Praetorians. I still can't see myself taking them against a CE, DE, AM, Knight, DG or TS list. Maybe if TS and DG start using their cheaper elite Troops then Praetorians become better, but I don't even think I'll be using Wraiths as is. Dakka is king in ITC, if you can't reliably shoot a unit down each turn or take full control of the board, you're losing, Wraiths and Praetorians don't really help with those things.

I won a 2000 pt game with 2017 pts using my Supreme Seraptek list against a Triarch Praetorian/Lychguard/3xDDA list. You'd think I'd easily beat the crap out such a bad list, but the board was set up in such a way (by me) as to now allow the Seraptek free reign so it was pretty terrible, particularly against QS with its flat 6 dmg weapons. I ended up winning by 1 pt because I failed to respect RP and my opponent got 10 Praetorians back on his unit of 10 over the course of the game. With the soon to be buffs to our QS vehicles I think I'll move away from the Synaptic Obliterator, you don't want to have to shoot at Immortals with this thing and the other option isn't terrible and those two will almost certainly delete at least one DDA/turn. My Destroyer Lords were terrible, I didn't have the CP to re-roll their attempts to come back to life and they both failed a 4+ to come back.

I won a 1500 pt game with 2017 pts using a Mephrit Warrior heavy force against Night Lords/Daemons. I forgot to Fall Back with my Triarch Stalker and Doomsday Ark and used my Veil of Darkness, then I forgot to use my Ghost Ark to heal and shot with a unit. I chose to surrender and asked my opponent if he wanted to continue as if I hadn't been an idiot, or start a new game. We continued and I crushed his Night Lords list. I had the Fearless WL trait so all his Ld shananigans were useless against me. He also brought a Sicarian Venator which does 2d6 dmg, pretty terrible against QS.

 Sasori wrote:
...
That being said, the HGC Stalker is now only 115 points, which is really good.

125, still very good. You can get it down to 115 if you take the particle version.

I still think Destroyers are going to be better than Heavy Destroyers, maybe if you're taking 12 Destroyers you take one full squad and then 2x3 heavies, but I would never put a heavy destroyer in my first unit of 6 Destroyers, they simply don't benefit half as much from Extermination Protocols. As for Sautekh Destroyers being bad, I thoroughly disagree, get 12 of them in cover or better yet some of them out of LOS and you're very likely to have a full squad of 6 ready turn 1, while also having more of your other units ready to shoot after your opponent's first shooting phase if they shoot at your Destroyers. Nephrekh Destroyers are only valid if you're running only single squad of 6 and you have no other juicy targets (Praetorians, Night Scythes or Monolith with models inside, Heavy Destroyers or a Seraptek Heavy Construct).

Not liking DDAs sucks, but considering how much better Doom Scythes got I'd proxy them and see what happened in a couple of games, they're going to be quite good against melee lists. A single Gauss Pylon can often more than get the job done, that leaves you with 1500 pts worth of anti-Infantry which is brutal against many opponents. Enough for 60 Immortals and a couple of Triarch Stalkers, one of them with a Heat Ray, so yes I think 3xDDA is mandatory in a competitive list, but that's because of the versatility rather than the pure anti-vehicle damage output, those 20 shots at 12" can really help out against some opponents. 3 Heavy Destroyers within 6" of a Lord still output more AV firepower than a DDA, albeit only at a range between 13-36", they're also far more reliable, it's hard to factor in how little a high-roll on a DDA matters, more smaller squads means less overkill. If you didn't run a Vault before you don't need to run DDAs now.

 Grimgold wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Can you drop from Scythe, move, AND charge in the same turn, though?

Invasion beam Counts as disembarking from a transport for all rules purposes, and you can disembark, move and charge from a transport. They have mostly fixed Tomb world deploy with the big fall FAQ, the only outstanding issue seems to be that you have to deploy by the end of turn 3.

No it doesn't. A unit that has arrived from Reinforcements via Invasion Beams counts as having disembarked from a transport.

 skoffs wrote:
So is the consensus to keep to just the minimum requirements for troop units (though maxed out to 10 in the unit of Tesla Immortals), or would there be any merit in going crazy and loading up on as many T.ims and Overlords as you can fit in a list?
(Hmm, actually, with the points reductions, I wonder if we can work Brigade lists out for competitive use?)

Also, I'm assuming Tomb Blades are still best run as Gauss while Immortals handle Tesla, right? (because of MWBD interactions)
Or we we going to try seeing how Tes.TBs & Anni.Bs work with Stalker assistance?

I think it might actually be possible to make quite a strong Brigade now. 1999 pts on CA2018 release, 2251 currently. The points reductions we got means we're no longer taking trash like single units of 1 Heavy Destroyer to pat out our choices, Deathmarks aren't amazing, but they did get a drop. I think the list I brought with 6x10 Immortals, Imotekh and Zahndrekh was really strong 30-40 MWBD guys puts a hurting on infantry and even Knights, my list did however lack Destroyers so running 30 or 25 is probably the best choice, running 0 or 15 is still valid depending on meta I think. Most importantly we can fit 3 DDAs in a Brigade which is huge. I probably won't be taking 0 Immortals any longer, I think our other units are good enough that I won't take 3 units of Destroyers any longer, just one or two should be enough in most cases.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
How about the most important Necron question: What do we think of the Monolith?

Approximately 2 Battle Cannons and 4 Heavy Bolters worth of shooting for 320pts is still not a great deal, but the mobility it provides is hard to put a price on.

Deep striking it means you can't use it's teleporting tricks till turn 3, and you may struggle to find a big enough landing zone, so I would probably never do that.

The Deceiver bomb is still an option with the same pro's and cons. The extra 61pts probably won't change your chances of either winning big or losing big with that kind of list.

I think there is now room to take one, and just deploy it normally, without having some big trick in mind. Let it roll around doing a bit of shooting, and providing some movement options for infantry units.

A Catachan Leman Russ Tank Commander with Battle Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolter is 194 pts. It does an average of 6,61 battle cannon hits at 72" while moving up to 5" or 3,31 battle cannon hits while moving up to 10" and 7 S5 AP-1 hits at 36" while standing still or 5,25 S 5 AP-1 hits at 36" after moving up to 10". A Leman Russ has T8 and a 3+ Sv and 12 wounds and is a Character Vehicle. You're paying 16,17 pts per wound.

A Sautekh Monolith with a Particle Whip and 4 Gauss Flux Arcs is 320 pts. It does an average of 4 battle cannon hits at 24" while moving up to 6" or 3 hits after moving 6+D6" and also does 8 S5 AP-2 hits at range 24" while moving up to 6" or 6 S5 AP-2 hits at range 24" after moving 6+d6". A Monolith has T8 and 3+ Sv and 20 wounds + any wounds it gets back from Living Metal and it is a Titanic Vehicle. You're paying 16 pts per wound, if you're assuming you get 2 wounds back with Living Metal, 14,5 pts per wound.

You're missing a third of your firepower, is it worth it to sacrifice that for the ability to teleport units over? No, cut off another 40 though, then I think we might start talking. The Monolith is still bad, worst unit? Probably not any longer, but that depends on the buffs the other worst units got (if any). The Nid melee KEQ with the flamer is pretty damn terrible AFAIK.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Spoiler:

Imotekh (160)

Think about how awesome using his two MWBD, and use the Strategem to use it another time, and now you got 3 squads of beefed up Heavy Destroyers. It was merely fun before Chapter Approved, but I'm considering it an actual option now.

 necr0n wrote:
Based on all the love Z-Oby gets I thought I'd try to make a list with them included. So how's the following for 2k? My thoughts are that 5 shield lychguard are probably not very killy, so as to justify an entire redeploy + teleport combo, but I like it anyway and I wanna try it. It just feels impossible to me atm to make a list at 2k points, I feel it's too little.

I'd love some feedback on my list.

Spoiler:

Battalion Sautekh: 1315pts

Zahndrekh - 150pts
Obyron - 125pts


10 Immortals - 150pts
10 Warriors - 110pts
10 Warriors - 110pts

5 Lychguard (shields) - 125pts

Deceiver - 225pts

Doomsday Ark - 160pts
Doomsday Ark - 160pts

Outrider Nephrekh: 677pts

Cloaktek (veil of darkness) - 85pts

5 Wraiths - 240pts
6 Destroyers - 300pts
4 Scarabs - 52pts

Total - 1992pts


Deceiver redeploys Zahndrek (for turn 1 obyron/Lychguard charge) / DDA depending on the game. Destroyers probably DS from Nephrekh stratagem. Wraiths try to get T1-T2 charge with Nephrekh advance + adaptive subroutines. Cloaktek's probably chasing the Destroyers arround and trying to take them away from sticky situations with VoD.

You're underpaying for your Lychguard. 5*(19+3+6)=5*28=140=/=125

I'd cut the Nephrekh stuff, there isn't room in your list for that I don't think, you want to get some actual use out of Obyron, however, as is your biggest Obyron target is a 150 pt unit and you only have 350 pts of Sautekh Infantry in addition to that. Get a 2x20 Warriors in there instead of the Wraiths and Scarabs. Cut the DDAs for a Ghost Ark and some more Lychguard or if you want to be more serious, cut the Lychguard entirely.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. The Nephrekh element is strong, but it's taking up so much that you're strangulating any chance of the Zahndrekh element to be worth its asking price, you'll probably find that out after a couple of games and then go back to playing a more cookie-cutter battalion with a Nephrekh outrider, which is probably going to be stronger than any Obyron list, but I think this manages to be weaker than something like that but also weaker than something that takes full advantage of what Obyron brings to the table.

daismith906 wrote:
Luckily ive been given a part built triach stalker by a friend whats the best loadout for it?

Gauss if you want it to support DDAs or if you're planning on being agressive, Particle if your want it to support Warriors. Heat if you're expecting your opponent to be agressive. Gauss is the most versatile because of range and is what I'd recommend if you're building your first one, it's not like the 4 extra shots with Particle is going to make a huge difference against Orks anyway if that is what you're shooting at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A tvault camping on an objective marker gets a 3+ inv. This stratagem can be played multiple times on one unit. Do you want your tvault to have a 2+ inv ? Play it twice.

Wut.

Because the stratagem doesn't happen in a phase, it can be used multiple times in.

Very overrated. It won't protect the rest of your army, paying 4 CP is a total waste in most circumstances. The Sautekh Strat increases your firepower by 50% if you're just gunning down a huge blob of whatever, while less meaningful your opponent can't play around it in the same way you can with the Nihilakh Strat.

 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on this list:

Spoiler:

Sautekh Battalion
Imotekh the Stormlord - 160
Necron Lord w/ Warscythe - 74
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
10 Immortals (Tesla) - 150
Triarch Stalker (Heavy Gauss) - 125
6 Destroyers - 300

Sautekh Spearhead
Overlord w/ Warscythe - 93 Veil of Darkness
Annihilation Barge (Gauss Cannon) - 120
1 Heavy Destroyer - 50
1 Heavy Destroyer - 50

Novohk Spearhead
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery - 129 The Nanoscarab Casket (Warlord: Crimson Haze)
4 Wraiths - 192
4 Wraiths - 192
5 Scarabs - 65

2000pts (10/9 CPs)

If you're wondering, I made the Destroyer Lord my Warlord so that I could try out Crimson Haze - which is about as close as he can come to actually buffing Wraiths and Scarabs. I wasn't sure whether to upgrade his weapon (to make the most of the Novohk ability and Crimson Haze) or his defence (to mitigate the risk of making him my warlord in the first place). I went with the casket, but I'm open to taking one of the Relic Warscythes instead if you think they'd be better.

The rest is mostly shooting stuff. I thought I'd give Imotekh a go at his new price (and since I have the model). Same for the Annihilation Barge. I was torn between taking a Chronometron Cryptek or the Necron Lord. In the end, I went with the Lord because it let me add 2 extra Scarabs and brought the list to a nice, round 2000pts.

Anyway, any advice or suggestions you can give would be most welcome.

I wouldn't take Imotekh if I wasn't going to make him my WL. Downgrading him to an Overlord with a Voidblade and cutting two Scarabs should let you bump one of the Wraith units to 6 to make the most of Stratagems. I wouldn't take Heavy Destroyers when I'm bringing a Triarch Stalker, but I did once run a Triarch Stalker in a Nihilakh list, so do what you want I suppose.

Doctoralex wrote:
Alright folks, listen up. I've got a weird tourney coming up and I need your help making a list:
It's a 4v4. every player bringing 500 points for a total of 2000 points. So me and my buddies will be playing SM, Orks, Tau and Necrons

So... what the hell do I bring as Necrons? A warrior-heavy list will get shot down in one turn (as there technically is 2000p worth of firepower on the opposite side)
And if I take vehicles, my enemies will just turn their anti-tank to my allies' vehicles instead of my QS.

I'm thinking of either of the following two/ lists:
Cloaktek
9x Immortals
9x Tomb Blades, tesla, shield vanes

This list is simple: it focuses on anti-infantry. While I'm sure the enemy can take down 9 Tomb Blades, it will take them quite a while.

2nd list:
Overlord
6x Immortals
2x DDA

This list cán work, because of the following reason: If my Tau ally takes a decent amount of shield drones next to his riptide and the SM/ork doesn't take any vehicles, the enemy can only shoot their anti-tank at big targets with either QS or covered by drones.


What do you guys think?

3rd list:
Necron Superheavy Auxiliary
Nihilakh Gauss Pylon (no re-roll 1s)
4th list:
Novokh Outrider
DLord -1 D WL trait and Nanoscarab Casket
Nightbringer
3 Scarabs
3 Scarabs
7 Scarabs

Last list is my favourite. Cosmic Fire and Transdimensional Thunderbolt on the Nightbringer. Losing the Scarabs isn't the end of the world, you can hide behind Orks. I'm concerned whether your lists need to be battleforged, because your second list is 3-1=2 CP.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
What about Doom Scythes? They worth it now?

Depends on what you're up against, but generally, no. Taking one isn't going to make your list instantly terrible, it might be a legit choice if you are playing against Autocannons/Battle Cannons and if you are playing against people where the Amalgamated Targeting Data Stratagem might be useful 3 might also not be terrible, but against Dark Reapers, Lootas, Lascannon-equivalents and a bunch of other things it's still weak, albeit not aggressively so. Problem is Dark Reapers and Cat Lady not being nerfed means 1-3 dead Flyers a turn, same for 25 Lootas. So we've got some of the strongest list that counter Flyers and you're competing with other Flyer armies that are stronger than ours which people are coming prepared for.

Being unable to be charged is relatively useless in competitive settings, there are very few viable melee units that don't have Fly and they usually rely on teleporting so body-blocking isn't viable against anything except maybe Khorne Berzerkers, but that's probably just the best choice among a long list of not entirely viable melee units. The Genestealer slingshot might become popular with the price decrease on the Swarmlord, Flyers may be a pretty good way to deal with that, dakka Flyrants are relatively harmless against our Flyers so if that's a tactic that worries you Flyers might be a good counter.

It's very hard to talk about how it'll turn out if you use it in your local meta, it's a difficult unit to use which just invites you to mismanage it and waste its firepower and possibly even get it killed by not having anywhere to go, it could also be awesome if you manage to snipe a character with it turn 1 or if you manage to stop 2 melee units from moving T1. It also depends on your Dynasties, Sautekh is much better than Mephrit, which in turn is much better than the rest of the dynasties, so if you're not playing Sautekh I'd stay away.

I won a rulebook-style Eternal War mission against an Astra Militarum list with 3 Russes, a Shadowsword and a couple of Flyers and Basilisks piloted by a newish player using my double Battalion Unique list. My opponent went first and destroyed 2 squads of Immortals. I killed Pask, 30 Guardsmen and a FW Flyer, that's while rolling three 1s for number of shots on my DDAs. I ignored his Shadowsword because I had no viable targets for it and destroyed everything else while holding objectives. I used Vargard Obyron to constantly shift my Immortal squads forward.

I won a CA2018 Maelstrom mission against a casual SW/Astra Militarum list with Aggressors, Wulfen and Basilisks. My opponent got very unlucky with a ton of his rolls, while I got pretty lucky. I think I had a good chance regardless of luck. I forgot to use MWBD turn 3 because I had nothing to shoot and also didn't Advance, I could have Advanced 1+D6". I forgot about an active objective I had and moved away from an objective I needed to control turn 3 as well. I veiled Zahndrekh behind enemy lines and sent in a squad of Immortals to mess with my opponents rapier batteries, it worked pretty well.

My opponents were pretty wowed by the power of the list, but I've had that happen with Tesla Spam backed by DDAs previous to CA2018, the 340 pts is definitely not nothing. Vargard Obyron and Zahndrekh seem very nice in this list so far, I'm having a hard time imagining myself taking 30+ Immortals and not taking that combo. It's looking very good so far. I might have to get more Teslamortals so I can run the list without using Gauss Immortals for proxy, but I might just run Destroyers in tournaments instead because I recently bought enough of them.

Edit: I just won another game against a Taunar list going first, had I gone second I think I might have lost, the Triarch Stalker seems very important to answer Knights. I think running 3 Stalkers is really solid if you're just taking a Battalion and 3 DDAs.

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I think the Spyder should be moved to elites, given the character keyword and receive a points drop to be worth taking.

Tbh, it has no business being a heavy support choice and should be like our ancient/biologus putrifier/whatever equivalent. That would also make a brigade more appealing, since we currently have no cheap elite choices


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the topic of the worst things in the game, does anything have a worse aura than the Destroyer Lord?

It's a CC HQ who allows a single type of ranged unit to re-roll 1s to wound in a single phase (the shooting phase specifically, so the lord itself can't even really benefit), and the unit in question can pay 1 cp to re-roll everything anyway

That's unbelievably restrictive

Two units, Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers. The Red Terror from Codex Tyranids allows you to re-roll Hit rolls of 1 for Ravener units in the Fight phase, which is technically more restrictive because we get both Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers, but the Red Terror is going the same place Raveners are (into melee) while the Destroyer Lord doesn't really want to stay at max range to pop shots, he can serve as a counter-assault unit if your opponent sends melee units after your Destroyers.

The Destroyer Lord was extremely good with Wraiths in 6th, I think GW wanted to move away from that because it doesn't make much sense that a Destroyer Lord is leading Canoptek Wraiths. Many people seem to like taking him even without Destroyers, he's very far from one of the worst units in the game. I personally don't like him and have been running a duo of them in my Seraptek list for about 10 or so games and they have done relatively little most games, I think the investment was worth it before CA2018, but now I think we have more good things to spend our pts on and I'll probably just be taking the Seraptek in a Superheavy Auxiliary if not in a Superheavy with some combination of Pylons, Vaults and Obelisks. A couple of Serapteks and a Pylon will definitely tear most mechanised lists a new one, I'm not sure what Dynasty would be best, probably Nihilakh.

I've already made a thread for proposed rules changes to Necrons, you should probably move this discussion over there.


I won an ITC game going second with my double Bat list against a Khorne Daemonkin list. I lost 18 Immortals, one DDA and my Triarch Stalker before wiping out my opponent. This marks my 6th consecutive win with the list, which is the longest win streak I've had with a list in 8th. I think I'm going to start looking for trouble with this list, find some competitive lists then try and replace Imotekh and 28 Immortals with Destroyers to see if I need to get more Teslamortals for games where proxying is not allowed. 18 Gauss Immortals might actually be good enough, so I just have to make sure I have 40 Teslamortals.

Perhabs the greatest challenge with this list is keeping track of which units have shot.

 IHateNids wrote:
Only comment I can make is switch out the Abyssal Staff for literally any other weapon. It's argueably our worst Relic. Other than that, it's a solid list. (even though the Meta hates MSU, with us more than most)

Might be tempted to trade one of the units of Immortals to Guass, and then teleport them accross the board with the Lord if you give him the Veil, just so then there's more up there than Deathmarks

The Abyssal Staff has been popular in tournament lists, you're extremely wrong. It's our third or fourth best relic after VoD and The Nanoscarab Casket.

The Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is by far our worst relic, the rest are either among the best relics in the game VoD, Abyssal Staff, Casket or are at least okay in niche circumstances Sempiternal Weave for a Cryptek to have a greater likelyhood of surviving the explosion of a Titanic vehicle he is on repair duty for, Lightning Field for Catacomb Command Barges etc. etc.

I lost an ITC game against a Tau castle with my double Battalion list, so 6 wins and 1 loss so far. I didn't make full use of terrain so when I charged I faced half a shooting phase and that pretty much lost me the game. The list still did alright, but I was unable to deal with 24 shield drones out of LOS, so when I killed his Fire Warriors I didn't have anything to shoot at.

I think having a Nightbringer or Deceiver in the list would work wonders against castles, a Transdimensional Thunderbolt would have wreaked havoc on this opponent and Cosmic Fire would be even better.

I won a 1250 game against a Harlequin bike list with a triple flyer list. My opponent got really unlucky, on average I should have lost.

tneva82 wrote:

torblind wrote:
How did you deal with his out-of-LOS shield drone unit?

but I was unable to deal with 24 shield drones out of LOS

I think he didn't ;-)

Those are buggers to deal with at the best of times.

Turn 3 I decided to Veil up Imotekh 9" away from my opponent's Castle and in cover and charge him in with MWBD to absorb overwatch, I used Obyron to ghostwalk a unit of Immortals up. What I could have done is Veil Zahndrekh behind the terrain feature which obscured the Drones and then Ghostwalk Immortals behind there as well turn 2. Problem is that still only kills 8 Drones and would have left me unable to charge anything other than Drones, while charging into his front line would have allowed me to take a Sniper Support thingy hostage with my Immortals and Imotekh. Instead I failed my charge with Imotekh, which meant just enough Overwatch on the Immortals that they went down to 2 Immortals (so no hostage taking) after the Fight phase. On top of that my opponent decided to one-shot Obyron with 2 18" meltaguns because I hadn't placed him out of LOS of that particular model. You can put most of it up to incompetence, the army just kind of played itself the other games, but because I was getting out-shot I decided to try a super risky strategy.

The rolls didn't really roll the way I wanted either, I got lucky once on turn 4 and did 6 wounds to a Riptide with a squad of Immortals, but it wasn't enough to dig me out of the hole I'd dug myself into with some questionable target priority turn 1-2 and the risky manouvre turn 3. A big part of the list's strength is its ability to fall back and shoot with Obyron, against a gunline that's useless, another strength is the 3d6+2 lascannon shots, but that doesn't help when all it gets put on a Drone on a 2+ and then ignored on a 5+. Destroyers or C'tan would have been great this game, Wraiths would have been bad, they're not something I'd invest in when running Obyron.

 IHateNids wrote:
3CP is a large commitment for that though

It's 2 CP, the reason it's useless in the Fight phase is the alternative of running Novokh and the lack of synergy. But it's only 2 CP so not quite that bad. You could use it against a Harlequin Solitaire with the MW relic, but that's one of a select few good uses.



I won a 2k game going first against a TS list with no Daemon or Tzaangor keyword models with my new double Monolith list. My opponent killed one unit before surrendering, at which time I'd killed half his army. My Doom Scythe blocked the Movement of a Rhino entirely T1, that felt pretty strong since it forced 300 pts out of the game for a few turns.


I won a 2k game going second against a weak BA list with a Zahndrekh list with some Shieldguard, a Night Shroud and a Nightbringer, my opponent lost his Warlord from a vehicle exploding turn 1 and didn't have a single lucky roll. Nightshroud was useless, Nightbringer and Shieldguard were eh. The list is certainly much weaker than my double Bat list, but my opponent was bringing a Repulsor and Tacticals. I did not lose a unit before turn 3. The Heat Ray sucked, I kept it too far back.

dapperbandit wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

1 Monolith 320

1 Monolith 320

How were you utilizing the Monoliths? Two in one list seems like a hefty investment

I ran them up the table behind 3 rows of Warriors and shot at things. My opponent didn't put up much of a fight, he had no coherent game-plan, he left himself open to having his Movement blocked by a Flyer blocking the only route one of his Rhinos could take, he didn't keep his units in range of re-roll auras, he kept units inside of transports instead of getting them out and making them useful, he split his force into bite-sized chunks, leaving him unable to finish off my units, queue 12 Warriors coming back with RP and several vehicles getting Living Metal + Spyder healing. His list was also pretty bad, between ineffecient unit sizes and Dreadnoughts with effectively no Legion Tactic instead of running Predators which wouldn't benefit anyway. He was new and I didn't forget anything. I couldn't make a worse list without trying to hamstring myself, Monoliths are still bad, the math doesn't lie, but i'm still excited to use them more, rather than angry at how incredible of a waste 380 pts was.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

Poorly written list

Well a few errors on your part. Nightbringer is an elite not an HQ. Also your first battalion doesn't have any troops. Sooo, yea thats pretty illegal. I also don't see a nightshroud listed there at all. Maybe you wrote down your list incorrectly?

I work in excel so I can quickly copy and paste lists and keep the original list, this was made by copying a double battalion list and I forgot to update the detachment names and CP available to the army. Thanks for the heads up. As Avatar said I used a Vanguard Detachment and a Battalion Detachment and I only had 9 CP for the battle, sorry about the confusion, I don't take much care with writing my lists when it's a first draft. I could move over to Battlescribe but then you don't get information about how much units would cost in a pre-CA2018 list like I do, I'll endevour to make more readable lists, thanks for looking through my lists and feel free to critique them.

I did indeed not include a Night Shroud, it never killed anything or got shot so it thankfully didn't matter, it might have killed a couple of Tacticals but it didn't drop its bombs before my opponent surrendered. I initially included one and replaced it with the Nightbringer, that's where the trouble was.

punisher357 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

dapperbandit wrote:
On the other hand, something that Praetorians can do and Wraiths can't is charge fliers.

With the soon to be buffs to our QS vehicles I think I'll move away from the Synaptic Obliterator, you don't want to have to shoot at Immortals with this thing and the other option isn't terrible and those two will almost certainly delete at least one DDA/turn.

What buffs are you referring to? I think I missed something

As Spy said they got cheaper, I think with QS being cheaper it's too hard a counter to a Seraptek list. The Obliterator already had bad match-ups, Chimeras, Kastellan Robots, Land Raiders and Leman Russ Tank Commanders got buffs while the Necron Vault got nerfed so maybe the obliterator is still the better option.

I won three 500 pt games against Astra Militarum and one against Necrons. Skill advantage is one thing, I think it's perfectly fair to show someone how to play the game, but then I was lucky, that's not really my fault but I did bring lists that weren't trash like I should've. Triarch Praetorians are brutal in 500 pt games when you have sufficient LOS-breaking terrain. ABs were pretty cool as well. I hope my opponents weren't too demoralized, next time I'm bringing less icky lists.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
It's not illegal, it's just not a patrol. It's a spearhead so he/she actually has 4 CP.

I'm so bad at this lol. Also my avatar is purple, not pink. Colour of royalty, not girls. I'll take the masculine pronoun but thanks for the effort.

 Sushi636 wrote:
I've been gone a really long time and from what I've been reading here is that we can use Gauss Pylons in regular games now? I bought the 8th rule book and the Necron codex, but I've only played one or two games. How did I miss this, is it in the rule book somewhere?

Imperial Armour Xenos. It's sold on the FW webstore. You can use Titanic units in games of any pts size and there is no limit to how big a percentage of your pts you can spend on those units, so if you want to field and army entirely of Gauss Pylons you can do that.


I lost a maelstrom game against a Dark Angels Deathwing list using my Zahndrekh Battalion 10 Lychguard Vanguard list. The mission included us drawing two objectives each time we generated one and our opponent shuffling one of them back into our deck, however my opponent used a Stratagem that made it so I couldn't look at his Stratagems so he essentially just got 4 random ones each turn, while I got 4 crappy ones each turn. My opponent won on VP, the game mode was very unfair but we managed to have a good time regardless. My army was quite a lot stronger than his, despite having terrible luck we both had about 500 pts left at the end of the game. I don't want to rule out Shieldguard too quickly, but losing them after making only 2 invulnerable saves and not doing a single wound in close combat is pretty disheartening. I failed my resurrection protocols 4+ roll for Obyron with a re-roll and failed two 4++ saves on Zahndrekh against damage 3 wounds. The Flyer did 1 wound with its bombs, a total waste, I'm not sure if I'd have ever gotten more value than that. Being slightly tougher than a Night Scythe and doing 1 MW once was not worth the 55 extra pts, the fact you can't land in front of something and block its movement and throw bombs in the same turn means the Night Shroud can't even do the job that you want your Flyers to do, but those MWs are pretty enticing so I'll test it out some more.

 Grimgold wrote:
So I was playing around with lists an noticed trazyn is now cheaper than an overlord with a warscythe by 3 points. You guys think he is usable at this point?

I don't think he was ever the worst HQ we had, he's just always been meh, paying 10 or 30 pts too much for one unit isn't going to make or break your list, but Nihilakh isn't a great dynasty for many units which makes life even more difficult for Trazyn. I don't think he's overcosted any longer, he's an Overlord with a 7 pt weapon and I think I'd pay those pts for that weapon, his ability is useless but we're not really paying for that any longer, so he's fair enough. Making him your Warlord now also seems fair enough, if instead of saying you are paying for an overpriced Overlord that can kill your characters to revive himself with a couple wounds left, you say that ability is part of his otherwise weak Warlord trait to keep your Warlord alive, then he suddenly makes a lot more sense. If you're making a Nihilakh Battalion without any 11+ model units then Trazyn is good, but still not amazing. I don't see any reason to make a list using him, he just doesn't excite me in the same way many of our other units do, when you factor in the Stratagem that allows you to revive your characters Trazyn just looks even more boring.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
But remember that the guardsmen can cap more objectives and generate more CPs for that same price, and that’s enough to catapult them wayyyyy beyond warriors or immortals.

Exactly on the money with the CP and board control, but I don't agree that they are wayyyyy beyond Teslamortals. I think you should do the math for Guard squads equipped with a heavy bolter and/or a plasma gun, if you were using them as anything other objective cappers and CP regenerators then I think you would at the very least take a special weapon, if not also a heavy weapon team.

Immortals do far better in cover than Guardsmen do, they'll take half damage from AP- weaponry while Guard take one fourth less damage from AP- weaponry, cover-ignoring weapons exist, AP exists, but when it matters it's huge. Add Immortals ability to ignore cover for 1CP, doubling one squad's output against a single MEQ unit in cover and the base Immortal Squad is a far more relevant squad in terms of killing enemy units, than base Guard squads are, but Guard do have relevant options, that just got a point reduction to boot.

If you really want to feel good about our units look at Renegade Guardsmen or Cultists, basically the same as regular Guardsmen but at 5 ppm, arguably what Infantry Squads should be at, but I also didn't think Teslamortals needed a reduction.


I won a 2k Maelstrom game going first against a Tau list with 4 Piranhas and a squad of Broadsides with my Zahndrekh Imotekh Double Battalion. I got rid of a Riptide turn 1 because my opponent positioned his Drones poorly and only had 10 Drones covering that particular Ritpide. Turn 3 I shot at a 3++ Riptide with my DDAs even though they could shoot at his Broadsides, very poor choice, the Broadsides are far more fragile than a 3++ Riptide, Riptides will of course kill themselves half way if you let them, all I was doing is saving him CP and wounds in the future. I moved Zahndrekh out of position so I could get a charge with Vargard Obyron, failed the charge and both Obyron and Zahndrekh got killed, the manouvre was too risky, Coldstar Commanders can be anywhere at any time and put 4 meltaguns into your characters, so leaving bubblewrapping is not a valid choice against someone who is using 2 such Commanders.

I lost a 2k Eternal War game going second against a Tau list with 2 Ghostkeels and a squad of Broadsides using the same list. I'm fairly certain I would've won going first, but I decided to go second to see if I could win on objectives, that did not work out. The prepared positions Strat didn't do much for my 4+ Sv Doomsday Arks which I had placed super aggressively in hopes of putting them in Rapid-Fire range T1 leading me to lose two DDAs T1, where I lost zero in the entirety of the previous game because I decided to put them in cover and out of range. I put too much focus on his Ghostkeels, bad choice given that I was unable to get rid of his ghost drones so they were -2 to hit. I ended up being wiped out, but I think I forgot to deploy my Cryptek in the second game so I think I might still have had a chance on the objectives, but I wasn't keeping proper track of my dead and fleeing models either, I was just vizualising knocking my head against a wall the entire game for letting my opponent go first. I'll also just point out that you can make a Heroic Intervention even if your opponent did not declare a charge, I ended up doing so twice with Imotekh after my opponent fell back with his Ghostkeels. If nothing else this taught me about what would have happened had my opponent seized the initiative. Ghostkeels seem mainly to be distraction carnifexes, shooting Fire Warriors and Drones is a much bigger priority.


I won a 500pt game against a Scion newb with my friendly Mephrit 500 list, my opponent rolled poorly so even though I won I think this list gives a more fair chance to my opponent. I forgot to take hostages and let my opponent escape, failing to teach him that tactic and how to resist it, it's also a bad habbit I don't want to pick up for my more competitive games.

 Odrankt wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's also an insincere statement to suggest he costs his base price + the model he could take over. He has the option to switch with another model A. you don't need to and B. when he does he isn't dying anymore so your losing that other model and NOT HIM.

But why would you want to lose a different model like say a useable Cloaktek or Lord for Trazyn? Trazyn does nothing for us competitively. If you guys can make a sound tactic that actually use him and his ability I'll be will to change my D to a C or C+. But until shown and given actual reasons as to why he is worth picking over a cheaper Olord that can be any Dynasty (even Nihilakh, shock)I will keep Trollzyn as a D.

Again, this is my opinion. I don't personally think it's worth swapping a generic HQ just for Trazyn unless he was my warlord but then I'd be stuck with the Nihilakh warlord trait. So. Again. Not seeing what he brings to the table besides limitations and useful character sacrifices if you want him to survive.

The problem they are having is that in a Nihilakh army he isn't useless, he's an okay replacement for an Overlord, his weapon is 7 pts which is perfectly fair, his ability is free, he isn't the huge points sink you'd expect from a D-rank unit. You're never in a million years going to see him in a competitive list, you're right about that part. I think you're overrating Sentinels, D3 shots at range 12" turn 2 after DS more than 9" away is pretty useless. Meanwhile Triarch Stalkers provide the only access our army has to re-roll 1s outside of Nihilakh and I'd put it at an A. Rating the Nightbringer as being worse than a Transcendent C'tan sounds like you've never used at least one of those, maybe that's just because I like randomly generating my Transcendent C'tan.

With the nerf to Fly I'm pretty sure that Scarabs are not A+, maybe A, but I'd rather have TBs. The Particle Stalker is many times better than Spyders, which are only sort of okay at the best of times. Last game I used one I was able to repair a vehicle on three occasions, then my opponent decided he had enough and killed it and it really didn't take a lot, I was using the most expensive version, but even with just a Claw he's pretty expensive. Tesseract Ark isn't going to be competitive, I don't think it's better than an Annihilation Barge. Saying that it's much better than 4 Destroyers is a little ridiculous IMO, they'll almost certainly be part of the Necron meta in a big way for the next year. I don't get the love for mini-Pylons, I see a lot more potential in the big Pylon protecting 3 DDAs with its 5++ aura. I can definitely also see myself building a list without the Cloaktek, it'll probably only be one or two out of 30, I guess he is an autoinclude. Ghost Ark should be A, a Warrior list is incomplete without it, don't forget everyone thought it would be all about the 20-man blobs at the start of the index and at the start of the codex, I think 60 man Warrior group has a slight chance of being good. The Deceiver is only good with a select number of units, but there is no discussion he is amazing with those units. But if you're running a gunline, as I'm sure will be incredibly popular, then he is the worst of the C'tan.

Construct being a C is hard for me to accept given how many competitive lists I've beaten with it and how easily it beat some more casual lists.

I lost a 500 pt game against Orks. I got a little careless with my unit placement and ended up having my Overlord be smited and then killed as well as losing my Destroyers to melee as well. I did help my opponent along a lot, I don't know if it was too much, but melee armies do require a lot more than shooting armies.

 Odrankt wrote:

Maybe he is usable in a Nihilkah detachment but its none I could ever find. And I have used him several times before.

Sentinels are D6 shots. if the gun is 12" and you ds 9" away than your gun is in range and you could just charge if that unit doesn't die. Not that useless imo. I do like Triarch Stalkers. they are very close to being an A but because of Nihilakh we dont fully have to rely on them so I put them as B and B+. If you feel they are an A than all good. Im sure Skoffs will take note of all of this before concreting in the Grading unit tag.

In terms of Nightbringer and T.C'tan. I have used them both numerous of time. N.Bringer probably 16 and T.C'tan a good 11 times. The reason I say T.C'can>N.bringer is because of how versatile it can be.They both do D6 dmg and the only thing the N.bringer has going for it is that it wounds most things on 2+ besides vehicles. But, besides the fact it has a fleshbane weapon. It isn't that much better than the T.C'tan. I think the T.C'tan deserves to be a great better. I am not saying the N.Bringer is bad but it is possibly the worst C'tan. IMO.

Scarabs are A+ because of movement, wounds, cost ppm, Stratagem usage. I never cheesed the fly keyword to do 0" charges because i thought it was rule breaking. So officially not being allowed to do that doesnt effect me as much as others. Maybe they are an A to you but I think they are an A+. But you are right about 1 thing. I would rather TBs.

I don't know why you don't like Tesseract Arks... Same firepower as 2 Destroyers + a cannon with 3 different modes. 3 dice charge discard the highest, 5++ and T7. Its our only QS model with T7 and an Invul. I think Tesseract Arks are great. Especially in a Sautekh detachment but whatever.

Ghost Ark isn't an A because it only affects warriors. So whatever rating warriors are they GA will be the same. IF it buffed all Necron Infantry it be A+++++ but it only effects Warriors and it isn't open-topped. Plus, no one really uses warriors for competitive play so why both rating a GA as an auto include the it only is one in Warrior heavy games?

Seraptek is a C because it is still a new model and we havnt really figured it out yet. C is an average score which means it can go up or down as more data is present.

What I mean is that he doesn't fulfill a role that a regular Overlord can't do as well, but there is no reason to hate him except if you hate Nihilakh.

Screening is a thing that makes the Sentinel seem useless to me, I proxied it against some guy and it just doesn't seem reliable, you're putting it at risk. Against Tau you're looking at half a shooting phase going into your 2-3 Sentinels and only getting one of them actually successfully chargin, provided it doesn't die. Have you had success with them? I just have too many other things to test, I'm don't think it's worth spending time on a FW unit I don't own when it IMO is unlikely to be competitively viable.

The Nightbringer has his Shooting attack that + the better melee seems to make paying 10 pts extra not worth it. How do you run your Transcendent C'tan? How do you use it?

Man I miss Scarabs, I totally forgot about moving 16" and then charging, yeah in Novokh or Nephrekh they could still be A+.

I don't like the Tesseract Ark model and I don't think it is good enough to warrant me getting over it to field it, meanwhile Destroyers have a great track record that Tesseract Arks never had and access to our most powerful Stratagem.

Rating the Ghost Ark an A depends on how you view units and lists, in my head I take a rough estimate of the average rating I'd give to each unit to deteHave you read the dakka posting rules yet? If not, click to open them in a new window.
rmine the rating each army has, so a list with 60 Warriors is probably going to be somewhere between D and B rank, while a list with 60 Warriors and 1 or 2 Ghost Arks is going to be somewhere between C and A rank.

What data do you have to suggest the Sentinel or the Tesseract Ark are anything other than C? I saw some people taking Arks back after the Gauss Pylon nerf in the index, but AFAIK they weren't particularly successful. Honestly I don't think we should update anything yet. For all we know Necrons may be complete garbo and will never have a single top 3 for the entirety of 2019 or Triarch Praetorian spam wins the LVO.

Spoiler:

Models: 68 CP: 8 Pts remaining: 1 Pts: 1999

Sautekh Battalion 5

20 Warriors 220

20 Warriors 220

20 Warriors 220

1 Monolith 320

1 Monolith 320

1 Cryptek (staff of light + chronometron) 95

1 Lord (warscythe) 74

1 Canoptek Spyders (fabricator claw array + gloom prism) 75

1 Ghost Ark 145

1 Doom Scythe 150

1 Doomsday Ark 160

I won a 2k game against Thousand Sons going second with my double Monolith list. I didn't properly bubble-wrap one of my Monoliths so I lost it turn 1 to Magnus after my opponent seized the initiative. I forgot to do RP and use the Ghost Ark a couple of times over the course of the game. When I used the Veil of Darkness I put one of the Warrior Squads and my my Warlord out of position for several turns, I should have thought harder about what the units were going to do in future turns and the range of my Aura abilities. My opponent was unlucky the entire game so I was able to clean him off the table, I think I would have won regardless because I had better objective-grabbing. My opponent also used Warp Time ib Magnus before trying to give him -1 To Hit after which he was out of range of that power, so it was quite easy to kill Magnus as I was hitting on 2s with everything.