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I just spent 8 months soaking 3 chapters in simple green, 1 Ultramarines army, 1 Black templars army and 1 sons of Orar army (approx 10,000 points), armies i had painted over 20 years with a brush for endless tournaments and edition changes. I then spent $200 dollars on new arms and pauldrens to fix all the models and start an airbrushed Lamenters company. Then the new edition came out. So i bought the rulebook and decided to add the primaris to the group but then i bought the codex and honestly after years of collecting marines the biggest kick in the balls is that it has a chapter on "Can i still use my old marines". Now granted, they look ok, but seriously GW. Now they are primed and in a box and my tactical squads will now only sell for $10 on ebay. My primaris are still on sprue and Tbh I'd take great pleasure in melting them down for alien terrain.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
The 40k lore has always been bad. The stuff that rates as mediocre was stolen from other sources.

Nah, the 40k lore usually starts off as bad, then sometimes gets redeemed. The Oldcron lore started off being fairly vague and uninspired, but evolved into decent writing over time as more lore was written. Often the lore that a faction starts with (either from scratch, rewritten as a playable faction, or post-retcon) is fairly brief, and at times one-dimensional. Before “Eisenhorn” the inquisition lacked a lot of character beyond “pseudo-historical groups with specific enemies they focus on.” Many primarchs didn’t have a lot of characterization or personality until the HH series started. Newcrons have been slowly accumulating lore that isn’t a garbage fire of sundry retcons. It feels like Primaris are waiting for a competent writer or two that can find their place in 40k without ignoring half the setting.

agreed, since we got primaris Marines we've gotten a grand total of what? 2 novels and a short story that talks about them? not a lot to go on eaither way, and I do suspect we might see a Primaris Wave 2 with the space wolves, my guess will be a Primaris veteran option, something SW players can use in Primaris Squads where old marine squads would use a wolf guard terminator

GW will not create any new units for old Marines they are done.

 Primark G wrote:
GW will not create any new units for old Marines they are done.

You keep making these statements like they are facts, but nothing is happening right now. Primaris releases have stopped.

New GW is all about making money, the only reason to stop releasing new models for a new line is if the returns aren't as expected.

There has not been one new unit released this edition. Best get used to it and maybe stockpile. Lookit Deathwatch.

Ice_can wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
GW will not create any new units for old Marines they are done.

You keep making these statements like they are facts, but nothing is happening right now. Primaris releases have stopped.

New GW is all about making money, the only reason to stop releasing new models for a new line is if the returns aren't as expected.

That sounds like a silly thing to say.so far every space marine release since 8th came out, (with the exception of GW releasing an old character from a box indepndantly) has been primaris. That hardly sounds like evidance of abandonment. now if space wolves come out and they get a buncha non primaris models and no primaris stuff? yeah that'd be damning but so far the evidance is primaris marines are selling well. I'm expecting space wolves to see "wave 2 of primaris marines"

 Primark G wrote:
GW will not create any new units for old Marines they are done.

I doubt this as you are only repeating a mantra without anything but speculation behind it. Even if it would be true then who cares? The marine range is so full of stuff that I doubt many were waiting for new releases.

For a collector, the classic marine range is not missing anything. We have tons of kits with different armour marks, guns and vehicles to choose from when building/expanding our armies.

So far if I remember the only new models have been Primaris, Death Guard and Custodes. Necrons and AdMechs got like one new model each, and the rest are repacks for AoS or designed for AoS (all of the birdmen and Daemons).

If we're just going by model releases, then it would look like GW is scrapping every faction except Marines, Death Guard and Custodes.

I'm fairly certain the big three have had their models in development long before 8th was announced, and they're just working through them in between AoS releases. However, even with that, I doubt they'd release anything new for normal Marines. Not because of a lack of interest, but because they've honestly depicted every single possible marine item in plastic now. All they can do is make updated kits (so maybe we'll see a new Land Raider and Land Speeder?). There's really nothing left for marines now.

No new units for the SM codex except Primaris.

No new units for the BA codex except Primaris.

No new units for the DA codex except Primaris and Talon Master.

No new units for the DW codex except Primaris.

No new units for DG except Primaris... oh wait, nm

I personally cannot stand the new Primaris lore. Really doesn't jive with me. I really would have preferred a darker scenario where the introduction of the Primaris splits the Imperium into old/new ideologies, dooming humanity (I imagine Administratum forces versus Guilliman forces.)

In terms of appearance... I agree with a few other peeps that it would be nice if they were a little more gothic. While proportions and posing are great, they are a little bland.

I couldn't really say too much about them in terms of game play. I don't have any, and I've only ever fought them twice, and in limited numbers.

 Cothonian wrote:
I personally cannot stand the new Primaris lore. Really doesn't jive with me. I really would have preferred a darker scenario where the introduction of the Primaris splits the Imperium into old/new ideologies, dooming humanity (I imagine Administratum forces versus Guilliman forces.)

In terms of appearance... I agree with a few other peeps that it would be nice if they were a little more gothic. While proportions and posing are great, they are a little bland.

I couldn't really say too much about them in terms of game play. I don't have any, and I've only ever fought them twice, and in limited numbers.

because apparently Cadia blowing up and the galaxy being literally split in two isn't dark eneugh for you? really?

Well, if old marines are phased out, everyone could just wait and simply count their old dudes as new dudes.

I imagine GW aren't stupid enough to drop the guillotine on Marines, though, or even go down the whole 'legacy', rules stuff. I'm not sure if you guys were into Fantasy but when it became apparent what they were doing with WHFB the backlash was incredible. It cost the CEO his job and boosted Mantic Games and other competitors massively.

Alienating a vast swathe of your customer base is an incredibly stupid thing to do, especially when word of mouth and gaming forums like this are so important in connecting a community that can be pretty scattered, geographically speaking.

I agree that new models might not happen but to deep six the rules for traditional marines would be marketing suicide.

I mean, haven't marines gone through redesigns before? Multiple times? This is just the latest iteration of that redesign. The writing's on the wall because it has been constantly written on for the past 31 years. I get that people are getting bitten in the behind as the upgrades happen, and that's always a crappy experience, but it's pretty clear that Marine releases from here on out will be Primaris. At least old marines are still playable (and are currently better than numarines), will be for some time, and are also kitbashable, due to GW keeping helmet and shoulder sizes the same (and to a lesser extent weapon and arm).

They do need to dial back on the Mary Sue stuff, though. I really think they need to work some sort of genuine conflict into the Imperium side. Having a split between Bobby G, Cawl and the Ultramarine successors vs the High Lords, Fists and other chapters would be great. The Terran faction is worried Guilliman is setting himself up as a new Warmaster and moves to limit his powers and actions, the Ultramarine faction sees this as a betrayal of the Emperor's will. It'd give a real edge to proceedings and allow chaos and Xenos to exploit the cracks.

Banville wrote:
They do need to dial back on the Mary Sue stuff, though. I really think they need to work some sort of genuine conflict into the Imperium side. Having a split between Bobby G, Cawl and the Ultramarine successors vs the High Lords, Fists and other chapters would be great. The Terran faction is worried Guilliman is setting himself up as a new Warmaster and moves to limit his powers and actions, the Ultramarine faction sees this as a betrayal of the Emperor's will. It'd give a real edge to proceedings and allow chaos and Xenos to exploit the cracks.

But how is what's going on now any different to when Guilliman was Lord Commander before he was put on ice? He's done nothing new excpet create these Primaris Marines, which, if the HLOT complained about, is just the pot calling the kettle black, considering they did the whole Cursed Founding.

Guilliman's not doing anything massively wrong enough to rouse the HLOT. And besides, I can largely guarantee that more factions would side with Guilliman than not.

The Imperium has the same conflict it's been in for the last ten thousand years.

If Primaris had a cheap transport and could take things like power fists on their sergeants there’d not be much reason to field old Marines except for some specialists so maybe GW doesn’t intend for them to be completely replaced just yet.

I'm just cackling over all the people who said they'd discontinue normal marines within a year.

I have just read Dark Imperium, and oh man, the primaris fluff in it is just god awful. It is like a giant advertisement for primaris. Like when they fight the Iron Warrior: this scene was painful to read.
But the book, overall, was better than expected.

I bought Dark Imperium and First Strike when I got back into WH40K with 8th edition, then Codex: Space Marines, so I've taken the full brunt of the Primaris marketing push. And you know what? My SM army won't be including any Primaris Space Marines. There's 30 years of history and lore in the iconic Space Marines, and they're the reason I got into WH40K originally.

Give me a TAC squad, Terminator squad or a Land Raider any day...

 Primark G wrote:
No new units for the SM codex except Primaris.

No new units for the BA codex except Primaris.

No new units for the DA codex except Primaris and Talon Master.

No new units for the DW codex except Primaris.

I'm not expecting new SM kits from anyone but forgeworld, but you keep talking like spacemarines will be out of production within a year.

I suspect that after the backlash from the chage from WHF to AoS, that as mentioned caused a change of management, the new managment will not want a repeat of that disaster.

Also just clarify

BA and DA didn't get any new primaris releases same for DW its just intercessors + chapter upgrade sprue not a new release.
Also a Talon Master would be a non primaris release

I suspect that it will be primaris focused from now on from GW but I think they are slowing down the change over due to customers reaction, not being as sunshine and full tills as projected by some marketing guru.

Ice_can wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
No new units for the SM codex except Primaris.

No new units for the BA codex except Primaris.

No new units for the DA codex except Primaris and Talon Master.

No new units for the DW codex except Primaris.

I'm not expecting new SM kits from anyone but forgeworld, but you keep talking like spacemarines will be out of production within a year.

I suspect that after the backlash from the chage from WHF to AoS, that as mentioned caused a change of management, the new managment will not want a repeat of that disaster.

Also just clarify

BA and DA didn't get any new primaris releases same for DW its just intercessors + chapter upgrade sprue not a new release.
Also a Talon Master would be a non primaris release

I suspect that it will be primaris focused from now on from GW but I think they are slowing down the change over due to customers reaction, not being as sunshine and full tills as projected by some marketing guru.

I find that highly doubtful, you seem to think GW planned some accelerated primaris release or something, but that doesn't ive with what we've seen, Primaris Marines suggest GW was being UBER careful to mkae them supplement but not replace Marines. GW's plan for the near future at least is for mixed armies
I suspect it'll take a decade or more to see standard marines being phased out. for all we know GW's plan is 30 years of mixed marines, and 30 years of primaris mostly

 Primark G wrote:
No new units for the SM codex except Primaris.

No new units for the BA codex except Primaris.

No new units for the DA codex except Primaris and Talon Master.

No new units for the DW codex except Primaris.

Obvious strawman is obvious.

If you care to look beyond SMs you'll care to notice NO codexes got any new models beyond Death Guard and Custodes, as they were a completely new subfactions. SM's not getting any new models in their codexes (other than Primaris, who, like DG can be viewed as a brand new subfaction too). But these don't support your argument do they Mr cheap clothing store?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
No new units for the SM codex except Primaris.

No new units for the BA codex except Primaris.

No new units for the DA codex except Primaris and Talon Master.

No new units for the DW codex except Primaris.

Obvious strawman is obvious.

If you care to look beyond SMs you'll care to notice NO codexes got any new models beyond Death Guard and Custodes, as they were a completely new subfactions. SM's not getting any new models in their codexes (other than Primaris, who, like DG can be viewed as a brand new subfaction too). But these don't support your argument do they Mr cheap clothing store?

Not to mention that the SMs have a fully fleshed out plastic line with modern and good looking models that don't need replacing, and it's one of the largest lines so they don't need anything added.

B... b... but nothing's been released!!!

Yeah, nothing has to be released, the SM model line is in a great place.

Armiger anyone?

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
No new units for the SM codex except Primaris.

No new units for the BA codex except Primaris.

No new units for the DA codex except Primaris and Talon Master.

No new units for the DW codex except Primaris.

Obvious strawman is obvious.

If you care to look beyond SMs you'll care to notice NO codexes got any new models beyond Death Guard and Custodes, as they were a completely new subfactions. SM's not getting any new models in their codexes (other than Primaris, who, like DG can be viewed as a brand new subfaction too). But these don't support your argument do they Mr cheap clothing store?

Not to mention that the SMs have a fully fleshed out plastic line with modern and good looking models that don't need replacing, and it's one of the largest lines so they don't need anything added.

B... b... but nothing's been released!!!

Yeah, nothing has to be released, the SM model line is in a great place.

yeah only thing SMs need in plastic right now is.... the thudnerfire canon?

Thunderfire Cannon and Techmarine. Seriously a plastic Techmarine is, right now, right up there with plastic thunderhawk.

But line-wise, I think the only other faction that has this much stuff depicted in plastic is the Tau (Kroot? wat is kroot?) and Dark Eldar.

Ice_can wrote:

BA and DA didn't get any new primaris releases same for DW its just intercessors + chapter upgrade sprue not a new release.

Both BA and DA got unique Lieutenant figs with their codexes.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angel-Primaris-Lieutenant-Tolmeron-2017
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Dangels-Primaris-Lieutenant-Zakariah-2017

B... b... but nothing's been released!!!

Yeah, nothing has to be released, the SM model line is in a great place.

Plus everyone complained at the pre-Primaris attempts at adding to the SM line. The Stalker/Hunter is a nothing and the Centurions are a mess. The line was at a creative end.

CassianSol wrote:

B... b... but nothing's been released!!!

Yeah, nothing has to be released, the SM model line is in a great place.

Plus everyone complained at the pre-Primaris attempts at adding to the SM line. The Stalker/Hunter is a nothing and the Centurions are a mess. The line was at a creative end.

So it was perfect, and didn't need any further abomination like the "agressors"