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2018/09/24 08:57:20
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Ill definitely pick the Lieutenant up, as the primaris line is so small its nice to have new base models for character conversions etc.
One thing i will say though- they have a posing issue, all of the characters they've done so far are incredibly lacking in any sort of dynamism, the wolf one is maybe the exception but still, none of the models done so far have been better than something you could build yourself using older marine arms and weapons, i could link to at least 5 ive done myself to prove this point.
Im not moaning about getting new models, its awesome, but I am still waiting for that "knock your socks off" primaris model that i dont instantly think "Now what should i chop off first to improve this model?"
2018/09/24 09:29:12
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
2018/09/24 09:49:48
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Nice starter set. Not every product is aimed at those who already have armies, peeps. Maybe, just maybe, some releases aren’t for you.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2018/09/24 09:53:10
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Process wrote: Ill definitely pick the Lieutenant up, as the primaris line is so small its nice to have new base models for character conversions etc.
One thing i will say though- they have a posing issue, all of the characters they've done so far are incredibly lacking in any sort of dynamism, the wolf one is maybe the exception but still, none of the models done so far have been better than something you could build yourself using older marine arms and weapons, i could link to at least 5 ive done myself to prove this point.
Im not moaning about getting new models, its awesome, but I am still waiting for that "knock your socks off" primaris model that i dont instantly think "Now what should i chop off first to improve this model?"
the Primaris Space Wolf Battle leader is head and shoulders the best of the Primaris Lt models. although he's basicly just a upscaled old style marine. the bolt carbine is just a boltgun basicly.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2018/09/24 10:02:03
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
the Primaris Space Wolf Battle leader is head and shoulders the best of the Primaris Lt models. although he's basicly just a upscaled old style marine. the bolt carbine is just a boltgun basicly.
Well, the stat line variation on all of the new and old bolt weapons has been incredibly poorly executed (why is there 2 completely diff weapons with a 24" A2 S4 profile?), but thats a rules conversation.
Atleast with the wolf leader it seems they thought just a little about posing- instead of doing yet another walking forward, weapon held high in front with trailing arm holding ranged weapon- see gravis captian, BA lieutenant, chaplain, new lieutenant- its literally the same pose for all 4. Who is signing off on this gak? As a designer its killing me
2018/09/24 10:44:21
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
lord_blackfang wrote: Easiest way to do plastic aspects would be a starter set. 3-4 monopose squads on the cheap.
Well if the Sisters plastic is anything to go by its about 2 years from drawings to reality so if they have not yet started its going to be a long time.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Stormonu wrote: What does frustrate me is the lack of effort put into the campaign book. The one for Forgebane had two pages of (bad) fluff, 3 scenarios and outdated-at-the-time-of-print statblocks. I really wish GW would put some effort into the story and campaign portions rather than the obvious throwaway "something to do with your discounted miniatures" stuff they're tossing in the box. They ought to do something like the old days - throw in something like Renegade, Calth and Prospero and put *some* effort into a mini-game to even more use out of the minis put in the box and components worth more than binning five seconds after pulling out the sprues.
It would be nice, yes, but you can probably thank morons who at the time of release of these were gloating loudly en masse how genius they are because they seen past GW 'marketing ploy' and bought the box just for minis, tossing the (quite nice) board games without even trying it. After second or third time of seeing that, would you really be giving a damn anymore if you were a GW, especially seeing the games were made out of good, certainly not cheap materials? This is probably why these were discontinued, cheap sets sell just as well, so why try so hard?
BrianDavion wrote: err not at all, this is pretty consistant actually. think back to Forgebane... "a new cryoptic model.. WITH AWESOME NEW WAR GEAR!" then Tooth and Claw.. "A new space wolf Battleleader mini... WITH AWESOME NEW WARGEAR!" it's a little trick to make the mini more desirable. by giving it a new wargear option that was previously unavaliable. it gives a bit of a push to sales from people whom otherwise might shrug is off and say "meh I got a finecast one already"
Then why they didn't give lieutenant anything new? Like, I don't know, at least frakking plasma pistol? There are at least 3 other Primaris character minis with the exact same loadout now, and that's just counting vanilla primaris, 5 if you put tiny bit of effort into converting BA/DA one...
dan2026 wrote: If they really don't care about Aspect Warriors they should do away with them. It's silly at this point. We have:
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Swooping Hawks
Warp Spiders
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Rangers
Shining Spears
That's 8 units that they barely acknowledge exist anymore.
Yeah, it's not like most of these had broken OP rules for at least, what, three editions now, selling like hotcakes and being present in virtually every Eldar army, eh?
If they really wanted to forget about them, they could have pried Phil "why is everyone mad I buffed already borderline OP codex into stratosphere?" Kelly pen from these, and told someone actually competent to tone them down into being average, then they would really rarely see play...
2018/09/24 11:34:01
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Stormonu wrote: There's nothing wrong with a boring release, especially if it's a package deal that nets a decent discount. I'd be on board for grabbing this if I hadn't just bought a Dark Imperium and Eldar SC myself. Unfortunately, I'm sitting on too large of a pile of minis as it is, as they are both armies I'm interested in.
I just wish they would make it more than an "discounted" box set.
What does frustrate me is the lack of effort put into the campaign book. The one for Forgebane had two pages of (bad) fluff, 3 scenarios and outdated-at-the-time-of-print statblocks. I really wish GW would put some effort into the story and campaign portions rather than the obvious throwaway "something to do with your discounted miniatures" stuff they're tossing in the box. They ought to do something like the old days - throw in something like Renegade, Calth and Prospero and put *some* effort into a mini-game to even more use out of the minis put in the box and components worth more than binning five seconds after pulling out the sprues.
actually ya know what the campaign book in Fang and Talon reminds me of? the little "learn to play" scenerios from dark vengence so that might be the idea behind em
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2018/09/24 11:49:38
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Irbis wrote: It would be nice, yes, but you can probably thank morons who at the time of release of these were gloating loudly en masse how genius they are because they seen past GW 'marketing ploy' and bought the box just for minis, tossing the (quite nice) board games without even trying it. After second or third time of seeing that, would you really be giving a damn anymore if you were a GW, especially seeing the games were made out of good, certainly not cheap materials? This is probably why these were discontinued, cheap sets sell just as well, so why try so hard?
Or it could be that these are just you know discount boxes for models? That GW has had habit of releasing past few editions. 2 forces, full sprues, then one specific leader for both(later released on it's own), simple campaign. Since GW is hell bent on making sure they don't reduce existing price only way they CAN make it cheaper is release new boxes like these. It also works as casting sprues is basically free for GW and this way they can get people buy models they might not intend. Some might even end up starting specific army! Certainly I had no particular interest in getting ad mech or necron models but then came forgebane with nice discounts as well as the armigers. So now I have still mechanicum(still undecided what to do) and necrons(which I did indeed start into full army...).
Maybe these are these because GW has been doing these kind of boxes for a long time and it works doing what they are doing. These aren't even supposed to be stand alone games.
Nor are they starters sets despite people refering them as such. It doesnt' have rulebook and hell even GW doesn't claim they are starter sets and instead refer this as battle box.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/24 11:50:29
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/09/24 12:21:59
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
the Primaris Space Wolf Battle leader is head and shoulders the best of the Primaris Lt models. although he's basicly just a upscaled old style marine. the bolt carbine is just a boltgun basicly.
Well, the stat line variation on all of the new and old bolt weapons has been incredibly poorly executed (why is there 2 completely diff weapons with a 24" A2 S4 profile?), but thats a rules conversation.
Atleast with the wolf leader it seems they thought just a little about posing- instead of doing yet another walking forward, weapon held high in front with trailing arm holding ranged weapon- see gravis captian, BA lieutenant, chaplain, new lieutenant- its literally the same pose for all 4. Who is signing off on this gak? As a designer its killing me
Probably because they have two cool models for these weapons with no compelling reason to call them the same thing or give them different profiles.
2018/09/24 12:25:37
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Irbis wrote: It would be nice, yes, but you can probably thank morons who at the time of release of these were gloating loudly en masse how genius they are because they seen past GW 'marketing ploy' and bought the box just for minis, tossing the (quite nice) board games without even trying it. After second or third time of seeing that, would you really be giving a damn anymore if you were a GW, especially seeing the games were made out of good, certainly not cheap materials? This is probably why these were discontinued, cheap sets sell just as well, so why try so hard?
Or it could be that these are just you know discount boxes for models? That GW has had habit of releasing past few editions. 2 forces, full sprues, then one specific leader for both(later released on it's own), simple campaign. Since GW is hell bent on making sure they don't reduce existing price only way they CAN make it cheaper is release new boxes like these. It also works as casting sprues is basically free for GW and this way they can get people buy models they might not intend. Some might even end up starting specific army! Certainly I had no particular interest in getting ad mech or necron models but then came forgebane with nice discounts as well as the armigers. So now I have still mechanicum(still undecided what to do) and necrons(which I did indeed start into full army...).
Maybe these are these because GW has been doing these kind of boxes for a long time and it works doing what they are doing. These aren't even supposed to be stand alone games.
Nor are they starters sets despite people refering them as such. It doesnt' have rulebook and hell even GW doesn't claim they are starter sets and instead refer this as battle box.
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device. You pair some in demand models, with some out of demand models, with some new to the range "exclusives".
People are drawn for the new shinies (crypteck, armigers, wolf guy, abberants/abomminant) and the "in demand" units (wraiths, redemptor/aggressors, metomorph hybrids, wave serpents, inceptors) but also get the "tax" units (pretty much all of the troop choices).
The tax units have likely long since made their costs back but bump the box value up, the in demand units also have likely already made their costs back but serve as an additional draw, the exclusives sure will get added to the range later- but this way their tooling and development costs are likely covered within the set's initial run- so when they're released down the line as an "overpriced" standalone they're basically pure profit.
2018/09/24 12:29:00
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device.
Do they need to do this? Is it cheaper to write, layout and print the booklet, design, print and manufacture the boxes and fit it into the release schedule, than to just toss unsold sprues into the grinder and make something else? It's not like these are resin models or carved wooden pieces that are non-recyclable. Every time a box like this comes out, someone claims it's just a way to get rid of inventory, and no-one has ever justified that assertion.
2018/09/24 13:15:51
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
As someone who only has a handful of Eldar models I have to say this box set is actually pretty appealing to me. Particularly since I'm going for Iyanden.
The primaris will give a nice little boost to my vanilla marines and Blood Angels, as well.
I was on the fence about the Kill Team starter (mainly interested in the terrain which, even then, I didn't technically *need*) but I'm probably going to have to track down one of these.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2018/09/24 13:40:39
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Eldarsif wrote: I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
The Saim hann is just continuity I think, kinda like you mentioned. They've been the Craftworld of choice on all the boxsets so they want the army to be quickly identifiable from a glance to a customer. makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Let's say Mommy comes into store looking for new gift and she has bought Eldar for Timmy before. She may not know exactly what she is looking for, but she may identify the colours on the box to think "I think he plays with these guys". Can't fault them on that.
I may still be expanding my Eldar with this set
2018/09/24 13:43:04
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Eldarsif wrote: I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
The Saim hann is just continuity I think, kinda like you mentioned. They've been the Craftworld of choice on all the boxsets so they want the army to be quickly identifiable from a glance to a customer. makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Let's say Mommy comes into store looking for new gift and she has bought Eldar for Timmy before. She may not know exactly what she is looking for, but she may identify the colours on the box to think "I think he plays with these guys". Can't fault them on that.
I may still be expanding my Eldar with this set
Saim-Hann are also the focus of the upcoming "Wild Rider" novel discussing the Rise of the Ynnari.
2018/09/24 14:03:21
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
Eldarsif wrote: I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
The Saim hann is just continuity I think, kinda like you mentioned. They've been the Craftworld of choice on all the boxsets so they want the army to be quickly identifiable from a glance to a customer. makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Let's say Mommy comes into store looking for new gift and she has bought Eldar for Timmy before. She may not know exactly what she is looking for, but she may identify the colours on the box to think "I think he plays with these guys". Can't fault them on that.
I may still be expanding my Eldar with this set
True true. Hell, I'll be expanding both my Craftworlds and Dark Angels with this, even if I am a bit overflowing with gray ocean right now.
2018/09/24 14:05:57
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
I’m kinda interested in picking this up myself as well. I have an Eldar force (and who wouldn’t say no to another Wave Serpent? ) and I also have a growing collection of Primaris. However, I couldn’t care less about the Guardians.
I also agree with Lemondish. The 10 Guardians are in the set, simply to give the Marine player a sense of achievement when they kill them – cos those units sure as hell aren’t going kill the Wave Serpent and will just get melted by the Wraith Guard waiting patiently inside.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/24 14:06:37
2018/09/24 14:09:09
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device.
Do they need to do this? Is it cheaper to write, layout and print the booklet, design, print and manufacture the boxes and fit it into the release schedule, than to just toss unsold sprues into the grinder and make something else? It's not like these are resin models or carved wooden pieces that are non-recyclable. Every time a box like this comes out, someone claims it's just a way to get rid of inventory, and no-one has ever justified that assertion.
Poor word choice on my part, I meant more these are used as vehicle to sell units that likely don't sell well individually but that, when you look at their life cycle, probably offer quite a high profit margin;
Necron warriors, Eldar guardians, genestealers are all very old models that likely made their development costs back years ago.
Not saying its a way of getting rid of inventory- just saying its a great way of shifting models that wouldn't sell nearly as well on their own, adding maximum value to a box at minimum cost,
2018/09/24 14:10:36
Subject: [40K] Wake the Dead (new boxed set - Primaris vs Eldar)
) and I also have a growing collection of Primaris. However, I couldn’t care less about the Guardians.
