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I think just lowering the Big shoota to 2 points makes it viable, same with the supa-shoota to 6 points. It's unlikely that we get too many actual datasheet changes (or any at all) so I'd rather have them go to things that need changing more than that IMO.

If they gave boyz a 6+ invulnerable save instead of their normal "t-shirt" save then I think 7ppm is the perfect price. Combined with Deffskullz it'd either be a 5++ or 6++ rerolling 1's. And they should have a 7+ normal save so 'ard boyz can work on them (oh, and that's +2 to their save for 1CP). Also interactions with cover/loot it. Blood axes should get +2 to cover saves for infantry to compensate, which would be the same on boyz but better for everything else.

All Ork infantry should have a 6++ IMO (meaning Nobz, MANZ and all the characters and excluding grots) simply because they believe that little sheet of metal they put on their chest is going to stop bullets so it ends up working that way.

A 6++ on any ork infantry treads a little bit on the deffskullz trait but it would be improved for them (a 5++ might be too much, if so then rerolling 1's is still decent especially combined with a KFF). Also, it would only work on infantry, not vehicles (maybe bikes). And that kultur has some other benefits that are really practical.

I do think that the best way to fix the fact that boys are overpriced based on the fact that they might just be used in this powerful combo, is to separate boyz into several different codex entries.

So you'd have trukkboyz who are tailored for going in trukks, Normal boyz who are tailored for going in battlewagons, Footsloggaz who are tailored for footslogging it across the field, and jumpladz who are tailored for working with da jump and the tellyporta stratagem.

They could easily be put under a heading of "Boyz", and have limitations that they lose any special abilities if they mob up (even if they mob up with another unit which is the same).

Ideas for their unique abilities:

Trukkboys - up to 12 models, can disembark after the trukk moves, if the trukk moves half it's move or less, and they die on a roll of a 1 for each model.
Normal boys are mobs up to 20
Footsloggas come in larger mobs, 20 to 40
jumpladz would have a bonus when they are tellyported or jumped, perhaps a reroll on the charge after jumping, or being able to jump to 7" from the enemy instead (make sure they have no access to burnas).something. Mobs up to 20 or 30, depending on what balances right.

This way you have boys for trukks, boys for wagons, boys for footslogging, and boys for tellyporting. all priced accordingly.

Then you need to tweak "Da Jump" to not work on mobs of over 20, unless it's jumplads, so you don't get people jumping the footsloggas in turn 1. I'd also like it to cause a couple of wounds to represent the weirdboy not accounting for how high off the ground they reappear. D3 wounds, perhaps, and D6 if over 15 models. IMHO that's the sort of little touches which make an orky ability orky.


You could also include skarboyz, 'ardboys, flash-boys (more special weapons). If you separate the different personalities of boy, you can have them paying for what they are used for, not for the best possible way of using them.

I just think that's way too many new datasheets. Also jumpladz getting a reroll to charges when Orks already have 'ere we go is obviously not going to work.

A simple split, with normal boyz and trukkboyz could work. Give trukkboyz the buff you mentioned above. Also give them the option of taking up to 3 special weapons regardless of unit size and BS4+ if they're inside a trukk/battlewagon. Then there's an argument for both shooty and CC trukkboyz. Max unit size is 12.

Edit: Just to clarify, the unit size would be 10 to 12. Maybe that you can only take the third special weapon if the unit is actually maxed out at 12

As fas as I see it, there is no way GW will change so drastically the ork boys. At least, until there is a new kit to replace the ancient one. Don't change what is not broken.

If we follow GW trend on models tied to content of boxes, the only thing we can reasonably expect is points adjustments. Anything else is wish listing.

Back in the day we had boys, trukkboys, granadiers and grots. Ah! And warbosses turned elites such as MANZ and bikernobs into troop choices. Those times are over.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/19/coming-soon-warhammer-40000-2019-faqs-update-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Here is hoping!

Waaaghbert wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/19/coming-soon-warhammer-40000-2019-faqs-update-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Here is hoping!

The mere fact that they used a picture with Orks in it makes me happy, even though it probably means nothing

PiñaColada wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/19/coming-soon-warhammer-40000-2019-faqs-update-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Here is hoping!

The mere fact that they used a picture with Orks in it makes me happy, even though it probably means nothing

It'll be another "Orktober"

 Eonfuzz wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/19/coming-soon-warhammer-40000-2019-faqs-update-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Here is hoping!

The mere fact that they used a picture with Orks in it makes me happy, even though it probably means nothing

It'll be another "Orktober"

Quite possibly. It should also be noted that they're lowering expectations by not even calling it the "Big FAQ" anymore. It's just a FAQ now

PiñaColada wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/19/coming-soon-warhammer-40000-2019-faqs-update-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Here is hoping!

The mere fact that they used a picture with Orks in it makes me happy, even though it probably means nothing

First thing I noticed was the fact that its like 500ish points of orkz in the picture and a couple thousand points of Space Marines and IG/Knights.

Anyway, to the point of boyz on the 6/7ppm debate.

Easy answer, no, boyz are not 7ppm, they should be 6. Klan traits are great, but as has been pointed out ad nauseam, no other faction had to go up in points for their basic troops when they got their version of Kulture. To add to that, 7ppm from 6 is a 17% increase in price. Dakkax3 gives Ork shooting a similar boost which compensates for the price increase in shooting, however, the durability issue is a bit important. So because of the army wide Dakkax3 rule ork boyz shooting stayed roughly consistent with index boyz. Durability though went down by that 17% since we didn't receive an army wide increase in durability or even a boyz wide increase in durability. So unless you are playing as Snakebites your durability is now worse. As far as speed, we are now slower point for point because of this chance and again, unless you pick evil sunz you are at a loss.

The gist of this is that boyz got worse point for point between index and codex and the only additional thing to add into the discussion is 1 Tankbusta bomb per 10 boyz which is stupid because why would you ever take more then 1 tankbusta bomb anyway since you can only ever use 1 unless you feel like wasting CP to throw 3 at the same time.

Now a lot of people argue that boyz at 6ppm were over powered...which is not really the case as seen by the fact that nobody was winning tournaments as orkz except 1 tournament in London where the guy slow played to the point where complaints were filed but not acted upon. I argue that even with klan rules orkz at 6ppm is fine. I also argue that Stormboyz at 7ppm is fine as well. Significant increase in speed but no durability boost and no bonus for 20+ models makes them a good unit at 7, any higher and they are ignorable and easily killed.

For the sake of argument though, I doubt GW will ever lower the price of boyz back to 6ppm, so how do they increase boyz stats without breaking them? I think a simple increase from 6+ to 5+ is more then warranted. Compare Orkz at 7ppm to other factions troops who are 7ppm. Tau Firewarriors immediately spring to mind and good lord are they dangerous. 7ppm gets you a S5 30' rapid fire gun that hits on 4s on a model with a built in 4+ save. On top of that, they can have a Fireblade nearby to give them +1 shot at half range and can give ALL units within range a reroll of 1s to his target. So a small onion of death of 24 and a fireblade cost the same as a single unit of 30 boyz. Fireblade shoots and has a 1/2 chance to give reroll 1s. Those 24 firewarriors at half range (15 for them) shoot 60 shots, rerolling 1s gives them 35 hits wounding on 3s (S5 Vs. T4) gives them, 24ish wounds. So against our current orkz that is 20ish dead Orkz. On the morale test unless their is another 30 blob nearby they are running off the table. At Max range the same tau are significantly less scary, of course they can also come as a Bork'an sept and gain 6' to their rapid fire weapons....that means they are basically armed with 36' rapid fire weapons.....scary as all hell. So which would you rather have? A unit that sucks in CC but can literally blow you off the table at 36' range with 24 shots or 18' range with 60 S5 shots or a unit that requires you to get into CC to inflict damage.

For boyz our support weapons organic to the unit are trash as well. 12pts for a rokkit that has a 1/3rd chance to hit? 5pts for a 36' range 3 shot weapon that will reliably hit once per turn....unless the unit is advancing...and when was the last time a unit of boyz footslogging hadn't been advancing? Rokkitz should be 5ppm and I might consider using them again, Big shoota's need a buff and a price cut. Assault 5 4ppm. 15 shots at 12pts = 5 hits and 3ish wounds vs a Space Marine which equals 1 dead Marine. not bad, not good, but not bad.

I wouldn't read too much into the FAQ announcement. Its just them telling us its delayed. The fact that Orks are in the pic is a coincidence undoubtedly.

Semper has it on Boyz, they're not good enough to be 7ppm but GW won't change their cost. I very much doubt the FAQ wikk do anything, given the post, actually.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I wouldn't read too much into the FAQ announcement. Its just them telling us its delayed. The fact that Orks are in the pic is a coincidence undoubtedly.

Semper has it on Boyz, they're not good enough to be 7ppm but GW won't change their cost. I very much doubt the FAQ wikk do anything, given the post, actually.

Yup, I doubt we get much out of the FAQ if anything. This really sucks because for another fething year my Warbikes and deffkoptas are sitting on the shelf collecting dust because GW couldn't be bothered to write decent rules to make them worth taking.

We all know that there are plenty of uncompetitive codex entries and weapons that need points reductions (Stompa, Buggies, etc). Hopefully GW does too. I also think that some are too cheap and too good, making them virtually auto-take in competitive lists. This is boring! For example, Wierdboyz with Da Jump, Bad moon Lootas or Tankbustas + Showin' Off strat, minimum sized grot units + Grot Shields strat, Evil Sunz Meganobz or Gorkanaut/Morkanaut + Tellyporta strat, Deathskull battalion that consists entirely of single-model units, Smasha Gun batteries, Da Killa Klaw relic, and Da Souped-Up Shokka relic. Hopefully once other things become more competitive, these won't be so automatic, but some like Lootas and Smasha Gunz may need a points increase anyway.

But beyond those issues, there's a larger problem: 8th edition rules for line-of-sight, cover, transport vehicle disembarkation, and screening (or lack thereof) create a brutal environment for footslogging or transport-borne assault infantry with poor armor saves. With the overall much more lethal battle environment, Orks have to rely on tricks and gimmicks to get into close combat rather than marching down the board or hopping in Trukks like we used to. This is why you see the Da Jump power, Tellyporta strat, and Deffkilla Wartrike with a herd of Bonebreakas used over and over again in so many competitive close-combat-based Ork lists, and why the Evil Sunz clan is so common. Again, this is boring! It's also a generic problem in 8th edition, but it feels especially weird for Orks to have become one of the best deep strike armies!

In order to fix that, non-deep-strike strategies and methods of getting to the fight need to become more viable. Simply tweaking the points cost won't be enough. Here are some rules changes that I think would help to accomplish this, and make the codex more balanced and fun overall, with more variety in competitive builds:


Units:


Clans:


Psychic powers:


Strategems:


Relics: