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In an ideal wargame, the higher skill player should win what percent of the time?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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In an ideal wargame, a high skill player should beat a low skill player what percent of the time?
100% - a pure contest of skill
90% - the low skill player should have a chance, but a slim one
80% - a clutch victory every now and then
70% - those dice tonight, huh?
60% - these rules are pretty wacky
50% - pure game of chance

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Made in us
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy






Depends of which part of the word WarGame gets the prevalence.

If we emphasis the "Game" part, something around 80-90%.

If its the "War" part, giving the randomness of a real battle, it is not rare to have the most competent general loose a battle because of exterior causes, so maybe 60-70%.

A very tight ruleset can be fair, but real life never is, so I guess it all depends if you are the "game as a sport/chess" type or "game as a simulation/narrative engine".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/01 07:28:22


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Voss wrote:


The thing is this kind of system presents a logical series of choices and actions which can result in that win. A new player can observe those, can be taught what to look for and can improve their game in logical steps toward improving their performance. They can learn, improve and develop

But they'll still be behind the more 'skilled' player, and therefore keep consistently losing, unless for some reason the 'skilled' player isn't also learning and improving. What's being presented here as a good thing is a closed system were veterans always win, and newbies are just victims until even newer folk join in (which if they're sensible they never will)..


You're still making the same mistake several are, which is to make the assumption that newbies will only ever play experienced people. You're also making the assumption that skill is like experience in a computer game and that if two people play the same number of games they will retain the same skill divide between them. In reality this is rarely the case. Often as not the experienced person will reach a capping point and the newer person will advance their game faster if they are given the proper support and education along the way.
Furthermore in any general club there will be a spectrum of player types. So you don't have to play the best in the club every single time. Furthermore there are means by which you can handicap the experienced person.

Also consider any other hobby - almost any hobby has a period of time where a new person is utterly rubbish. They will be worse than everyone else who has been doing it for a while and that is perfectly and utterly normal. Yes an increased amount of success in the early stages helps keep them around, but at the same time they've still got to learn. Plus don't forget there's building and painting which can easily take up hour upon hour of their time and be part of the hobby too. It's not just about winning/losing

IF at any point you can randomly lose because of the dice then that can be quite a bitter experience because now the dice hold sway

I haven't seen anyone postulate that any single moment causes random loss. That's a completely different argument.
When people complain about the 'dice' losing games for them, they're generally talking about long streaks of poor dice rolls- usually engaging in weird superstitions about dice, confirmation bias, or are making excuses for poor decisions.
The last time I saw people complaining about a die roll winning or losing games was back when random game lengths were a thing and someone did or didn't get an extra turn were they would have just 'wrecked face' and turned the whole thing around.



The point is if a player with more skill can only win a game 60% of the time against a player with significantly less to no skill in the game then it means that dice are running the game. I used one dice roll as an example; but be it one or a dozen or a hundred the point is that its the dice roll which is deciding if the game is won or lost more so than the players choice in models to bring and how they use them on the table. This makes for a frustrating game and a hard one to learn.
Imagine if a less skilled player charges their cavalry into their opponents spearmen:

Under a game with a 60% win/loss there's a nearly even chance that either side in the battle could win. The cavalry or the spearmen could win. This means it doesn't really matter if they charged with cavalry or infantry. It also means that even if the spearmen are technically the counter unit, the player might not learn it very well because the spearmen keep losing every so often. So they never get to advance their understanding of the game because the dice are swinging results far more so than the players choice.

Under a game with a closer to 80% or greater win/loss for the more experienced; the cavalry would be expected to lose against the spearmen because its a very poor match up and the spearmen are a direct counter unit to cavalry. This would be a pattern that would repeat over and over each time and would eventually teach the newer person that you don't charge spearmen with cavalry. They can learn that and next time use infantry or archers instead and get a reliable better result.

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