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I think the wargame market has serious competition from video games and the fact that many other hands-on hobbies are dead in the water. GW is pushing hard for new customers though - all those new cheap to get into starting sets like Warcry and Killteam. Sure some of their duel army boxes are creeping up and up in price (even though they are still heavily discounted); yet those were always "more" of a lure for existing gamers.

In the end their market should be seeing some expansion and I think GW is taking it seriously that they are the gateway brand into wargaming - certainly for fantasy and sci fi. As a result all those KS companies and all those other brands are more likely leaching off current and former GW customers. So if GW wants expansion they are either luring those customers back; or getting fresh blood into the hobby.
Seeing them get officially into the UK Duke of Edinburgh and School systems tells me that they are going after new people with what they can. Brand outreach is the other area- all those licence products don't just generate money they get people ware of GW as a brand and a company.

Also a part of me thinks that if wargamers online keep complaining that new people aren't joining wargames then - if those people are playing at local clubs - then "part" of it has to be those local clubs not recruiting new wargames too.

 Overread wrote:
GW is pushing hard for new customers though - all those new cheap to get into starting sets like Warcry and Killteam.

You think $170 sets are cheap to get into? How out of touch are you? Sir, the peasants can't afford bread to eat. Then let them eat avocado toast...

Sure some of their duel army boxes are creeping up and up in price (even though they are still heavily discounted); yet those were always "more" of a lure for existing gamers.

"Creeping up in price" may be the understatement of the thread. As for luring existing gamers, I think that's how it is NOW, but that's not how it used to be even a few years ago. They used to be a dumping ground for old models and they were mostly useful for new players - and you could still get them months, even years, after release. But with the Necron/Adeptus Mechanicus box, they started premiering new models in with the old, such that existing players wanted these boxes just because they had units that wouldn't be available separately for months and months (still waiting on all the new models from every AoS two army box released this year).

I think GW is taking it seriously that they are the gateway brand into wargaming - certainly for fantasy and sci fi.

I don't think that has been true for a while now. I think board games have been much more successful in this area, with stuff like X-Wing Miniatures, Imperial Assault, or Zombicide being the real gateway for newer miniature games. In fact, I think many of them stay at that level, content to collect and paint board game miniatures rather than move to the hobbyist model kits. I mean, how can GW be a gateway game when you can't even buy anything they make in a toy store?

This may be different in the UK, where Warhammer Stores are more accessible, but the nearest Warhammer store to me is about 4 hours away. Nobody anywhere near me is going to happen upon Games Workshop stuff. But X-Wing Miniatures is sold in the bookstore.

Also a part of me thinks that if wargamers online keep complaining that new people aren't joining wargames then - if those people are playing at local clubs - then "part" of it has to be those local clubs not recruiting new wargames too.

I don't think playing at clubs is really that fundamental to the hobby anymore. At least in the US. Partly, I think most places in the US don't have access to anything like that. The only place to play pickup games in my city is one of the two tables in the back of a comic book store. And partly, I think more people are playing with just their small community of friends already, and not really venturing out to play strange games with strange people. Not when they can whip out Gloomhaven every Friday night.

I think the online community could be more accommodating of new players. I started with Age of Sigmar's launch and I was treated like I was a flat earther carrying the plague. But like people playing on their kitchen tables, I think people are largely avoiding (or perhaps just lurking) at large forums like this and instead choosing to participate in smaller Facebook groups. I mean, right now, there's 27,000 people reading Dakka Dakka, but for some reason, I only see the same two dozen posters, each with a few thousand posts. Meanwhile, I see much more active participation over on Board Game Geek from a much more diverse crowd of people participating.

The Nottingham-headquartered firm added that it expects its pre-tax profits for the period to be at least £55 million.

Pre-tax so according to George Harrison tax calculations the post-tax profits would be 2.75 million.

All good fun. GW is doing well and no doubt they will continue to do so as long as the keep true to being a model company that tacks on game play opportunities. On the other hand, Asmodee is an actual game company with diverse offering that do not (for the most part) rely on sculpt to sell systems. Their revenue is more than twice of GW so there is something to be said for diversification.

I'm UK based and Underworld is £45 from GW direct and if you're getting into a group chances are you don't even need that just the £20 or so warband pack. Warcry is the same, a bit pricier at £50 for the starting set, but you get a lot for that money; similarly a warband will set you back only £30 and you can start playing in a group with one of those.


As entryway products which are basically the price of one box of models (or a bit more if you go for the boxed games which give you two forces and rules and stuff) I think they are very affordable.

Yes there ARE cheaper toys and hobbies, but based on the structure of GW's prices they are very affordable kits an entryways into the game. Killteam and Warcry for regular armies are also options, again you can get a lot out of one box of models and then expand slowly.


Of course there are cheaper hobbies and cheaper wargames; but most wargames don't have the highstreet appearance that GW has (certainly in the UK); however if you're aiming at a cheaper hobby chances are you're not the target market for GW. GW has a rough price structure (indeed many armies often fall within the same ballpark value for building a functional core of models). Of course time is another factor - you might be below the target market income but willing to save for longer.



I agree that board games and things like Xwing are making bigger inroads; however at the same time I'd say that prebuild prepainted models are a somewhat different market to miniature wargames. The two most certainly overlap, however I'd expect fewer prepaint premade gamers to swap over to wargames.

Also I'd say that Starwars is a powerhouse of its own with its own distinct market and fanbase that extends well outside of miniature markets - even if many of them would be casual gamers.



Thing is I'm really hard pressed to think of another wargame that has the marketing pull GW has. Privateer Press were doing really well until they messed up the launch of 3rd edition; got a bit too wound up in their own competitive playerbase structure (which sort of killed a lot of entryway features); and then the Wizards of the Coast issue with Judges in MTG which led to PP axing their Press Ganger program. All those happening at once alongside some poor plastic material choices all kind of tripped them up (though I'm hopeful that, given time and their new CEO who I think was previously a major GW employee of the US division) will turn things around - esp now that they should be nearing finishing their big HQ move.