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 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

This is the sort of thing I point to when people say GW is "good" (i.e. business savvy) customer. Yes, they have exploded in terms of market cap and they sell lots of models. That doesn't change the fundamentals that in lots of ways, they are just old/"the only game in town"/lucky.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

This is the sort of thing I point to when people say GW is "good" (i.e. business savvy) customer. Yes, they have exploded in terms of market cap and they sell lots of models. That doesn't change the fundamentals that in lots of ways, they are just old/"the only game in town"/lucky.

People really misunderstand GW's stock value, it's not really been driven by it's sales (if it was it would have been much higher years ago), it's largely driven by the potential value of their IP. Total War's release really coincided with the epic run it's stock has had, it brought attention to the fact that what was previously thought of as a toy company has the potential to be digitsed. The potential to become a Marvel/LotR style franchise, this is the real value of GW. Hence it's valuation is similar to a tech company, not a toy manufacturer (mature business). Think of the value of Gundam, Pokemon, they're nuts, this is what GW is aiming for.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

Hate to say it but it appears that they are winding down HH. We sort of knew it was coming and also The Old World stepping in to take its place. It is disappointing they didn't want to support both and just hired more people. I mean they are rolling bank.. 100-200K overhead for another 5 people would literly do nothing to their profits and would result in more sales of HH.

Ielthan wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

This is the sort of thing I point to when people say GW is "good" (i.e. business savvy) customer. Yes, they have exploded in terms of market cap and they sell lots of models. That doesn't change the fundamentals that in lots of ways, they are just old/"the only game in town"/lucky.

People really misunderstand GW's stock value, it's not really been driven by it's sales (if it was it would have been much higher years ago), it's largely driven by the potential value of their IP. Total War's release really coincided with the epic run it's stock has had, it brought attention to the fact that what was previously thought of as a toy company has the potential to be digitsed. The potential to become a Marvel/LotR style franchise, this is the real value of GW. Hence it's valuation is similar to a tech company, not a toy manufacturer (mature business). Think of the value of Gundam, Pokemon, they're nuts, this is what GW is aiming for.

Yeah, good point. And by that logic, the comings and goings of the game itself and the players that play it are less important. As folks have said in other threads, the Marine wankery isn't as omni-present in things like the video games and TV because they're either not 40k (Total War, Vermintide, etc. etc.) or offer alternate POVs (Battlefleet Gothic, the Eisenhorn show that may or may not get off the ground). So you can have a tabletop game that's a shell of itself (not that I'm saying that's the case), and possibly declining/stagnant model revenues (which we totally saw in 7th, the IP revenues were what helped prop things up), and still see an overall successful company (WotC is probably a good comparison there with Magic).

...yeah. That all makes sense. I'm not a fan of that outcome but I could see it happening. Because while GW is inept, they've done a decent job with growing that IP aspect. They definitely have made some missteps there but the market is so large, I don't think it matters that much if they weren't totally maximizing things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:


Hate to say it but it appears that they are winding down HH. We sort of knew it was coming and also The Old World stepping in to take its place. It is disappointing they didn't want to support both and just hired more people. I mean they are rolling bank.. 100-200K overhead for another 5 people would literly do nothing to their profits and would result in more sales of HH.

Well, probably more overhead than that but still a drop in the bucket given their revenues and margin. In general, that's what drives me crazy (you add like another 15 people overall and you could make all GW's rules the envy of the industry instead of just the models), but like what I said above, it doesn't really matter for GW because they'll be able to kill it on IP anyways. They could drive 40k model revenue into the ground and probably still be successful. In fact, that seems like the savvy business move because then you don't have to maintain all those crazy GW stores...

 Argive wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

Hate to say it but it appears that they are winding down HH. We sort of knew it was coming and also The Old World stepping in to take its place. It is disappointing they didn't want to support both and just hired more people. I mean they are rolling bank.. 100-200K overhead for another 5 people would literly do nothing to their profits and would result in more sales of HH.

Which seems bizarre to me as a 30k player. Yes, the series of novels is done and they've moved on to the Siege of Terra, but don't tell me that there isn't more room in the setting for a lot of expanded content taking place both during and just after the Heresy. As you said, with their current profits it feels like they really could do both The Old World and the Horus Heresy, but for some weird reason I get the feeling that the 30k design team/studio is the abandoned orphan kid in the corner who gets almost no attention from GW proper.

It may very well be true that they're winding down 30k, but I'll keep my hopes up regardless until there's an official announcement that it's done. ...and then I'll keep playing anyway, because honestly I much prefer it to the 8th/9th ed mess with its massive content churn cycle.

Throw in 3d printing becoming better by the day, and more and more people being competent with 3d sculpting software, and their core business as a miniature manufacturer really doesn't have much of a moat anymore. Already we're seeing small companies rival or even surpass their quality, the technological changes will only exacerbate this. In the even medium term they have no real answer to the problem of 3d printing.

If GW didn't have it's distinct and mature IP it's stock would have been in the toilet long ago in the vein of oil companies, combustion engine car manufacturers and other dying, disrupted industries. The next 20 years are gonna see an enormous decentralisation of well, everything, skills included. So GW's moat solely relying on being able to hire the best sculptors is tenuous at best (consider that even 40 years ago Tom Meier left wargame sculpting to work for toy companies as it was so much better paid).

I always find it quite funny when I hear aos fans claim their game turned GW around, when in fact it was the WFB IP that GW had killed off that very same year. GW hit the jackpot without even planning it, hence the Old World is coming back, after Tolkien it's the most developed Fantasy IP in existence, it's arguable even richer than Middle Earth. The Old World is not coming back to sell models, it's coming back to allow them to further develop the WFB IP in a popular way.

Their future as a company in reality lies in the realm of entertainment, not miniatures.

I always wonder how they felt when their sales must have reached new roofs during the end times releases, when every one thought it was going to be awesome and the game would be forever better after it (lol).
The drought following AoS release must have hurt.

And I don't think 3D printing is going to move them anytime soon. Ease/difficulty of use aside, they are going to lose people they were going to lose anyway (to third parties, to other game companies, anything), the rest is still going to enjoy GW's products.

dhallnet wrote:
I always wonder how they felt when their sales must have reached new roofs during the end times releases, when every one thought it was going to be awesome and the game would be forever better after it (lol).
The drought following AoS release must have hurt.

And I don't think 3D printing is going to move them anytime soon. Ease/difficulty of use aside, they are going to lose people they were going to lose anyway (to third parties, to other game companies, anything), the rest is still going to enjoy GW's products.

Yeah, it really added some spice to the gut punch that was the ending....was a monumentally idiotic move by an incompetent CEO. They could have rebooted the system to fit the same aos format if they really wanted to, rebranding everything to these stupid names etc. Ditching the IP makes you realise they didn't really understand the value of what they had. The AoS IP has not even a fraction of the same value, and is really competing against a giant field of other nascent fantasy IP's trying to ride the Marvel coat tails.


The rate at which the technology is improving is pretty crazy, like this years model will offer significant improvements over last years model etc, this will likely accelerate given the increasing profitability drawing in more investment. You have to remember the technological improvements are really being driven by the industrail manufacturing and medical spaces, which receive massive, massive investment, home 3d printers are riding their coat tails.

Issues such as ease of use are ultimately solveable problems. I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Ielthan wrote:
I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Really?

Because GW doesn't even make digital codexes anymore.

I can see GW selling STLs that only work on a GW branded printer that costs more and doesn't work as well as other 3d printers. I can also see them making the STL's only available as a subscription, or being code-locked behind some physical purchase. But I don't ever see GW selling anything that's easy to share online.

I'd also add that resisting technological innovation is another way to capture other segments of the market; as soon as everyone is doing STL only because reasons, the folks who still sell miniatures will have a captive audience of those who don't want to 3d print stuff. It's like the APP-ification of retail- for every business that doesn't want to deal with you unless you do EVERYTHING on a stupid phone, there are other businesses willing to see to the needs of the phone-fatigued.

Ielthan wrote:
They could have rebooted the system to fit the same aos format if they really wanted to, rebranding everything to these stupid names etc. Ditching the IP makes you realise they didn't really understand the value of what they had.

Yeah pretty much, they could have 2 games drawing from the same miniatures (like... 40K and Apocalypse for example) and keep everyone happy. But nope, "it was too hard to tell stories", haha.

Ielthan wrote:
The rate at which the technology is improving is pretty crazy, like this years model will offer significant improvements over last years model etc, this will likely accelerate given the increasing profitability drawing in more investment. You have to remember the technological improvements are really being driven by the industrail manufacturing and medical spaces, which receive massive, massive investment, home 3d printers are riding their coat tails.

Issues such as ease of use are ultimately solveable problems. I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Indeed and it's kinda mature for general use right now (provided you have some spot in your home that is safe) but what I meant is more that some people will always be happy to buy their products. Heck, I have a printer, I still buy some of their minis. Not because I can't find an stl online or whatever, just because I like them. And I think it will always be unless the whole miniature market turns around at some point and everyone prints their own stuff, boardgames comes with stl files, etc.
Which I doubt and I think there is space for both, you can print Magic TG cards since forever, WotC doesn't sell designs to print AFAIK and this little card thing they have going on is far from going out of business even though there must be some people playing with prints.

Anyway, we'll see what the future brings.

PenitentJake 796710 11074522 wrote:


I can see GW selling STLs that only work on a GW branded printer that costs more and doesn't work as well as other 3d printers. I can also see them making the STL's only available as a subscription, or being code-locked behind some physical purchase. But I don't ever see GW selling anything that's easy to share online.

I'd also add that resisting technological innovation is another way to capture other segments of the market; as soon as everyone is doing STL only because reasons, the folks who still sell miniatures will have a captive audience of those who don't want to 3d print stuff. It's like the APP-ification of retail- for every business that doesn't want to deal with you unless you do EVERYTHING on a stupid phone, there are other businesses willing to see to the needs of the phone-fatigued.

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Karol wrote:

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Yeah, that I could see, I suppose.

I'll never buy it, but I could see them trying to sell it. Seriously damages the collector market though.

Time will tell I suppose.

PenitentJake wrote:

Ielthan wrote:
I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Really?

Because GW doesn't even make digital codexes anymore.

I can see GW selling STLs that only work on a GW branded printer that costs more and doesn't work as well as other 3d printers. I can also see them making the STL's only available as a subscription, or being code-locked behind some physical purchase. But I don't ever see GW selling anything that's easy to share online.

I'd also add that resisting technological innovation is another way to capture other segments of the market; as soon as everyone is doing STL only because reasons, the folks who still sell miniatures will have a captive audience of those who don't want to 3d print stuff. It's like the APP-ification of retail- for every business that doesn't want to deal with you unless you do EVERYTHING on a stupid phone, there are other businesses willing to see to the needs of the phone-fatigued.

This is actually in keeping with the pattern these companies go through, which is:

1. Fight fight fight the hardest you can agianst the new technology, even if it means cutting off your nose to spite your face, right up until ....

2. You admit defeat and embrace it and try to make money off it.

It's exactly what happened with the music industry, for example. The fact that GW is now still in the "fight the losing battle ever harder" doesn't preclude it eventually doing a U-turn.

In this case though, I think people vastly overrate the potential of 3D printing to change the market. Most people have no interest in dealing with the whole 3D printing process, certainly not for whole squads worth of tiny miniatures. They'd rather pay someone else to print it for them. And as long as that person is still paying GW licensing fees, it's unlikely they're going to charge you all that much less than GW does. I mean look at those Artel miniatures people quoted above: The characters are cheaper because GW charges a ridiculous premium for characters, but the squads cost as much if not more than GW's own offerings.

I can see that GW may have to lower the premium it charges for individual infantry-sized character sculpts because there is a large enough mark-up there that there's a market to be exploited, but that's about it.

Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Yeah that's a LOT more steps and faff for many. So yeah I don't think its going to change unless they can make a printer that basically spits out the fully cured model ready to go for the person.

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Yeah that's a LOT more steps and faff for many. So yeah I don't think its going to change unless they can make a printer that basically spits out the fully cured model ready to go for the person.

^ I resemble this remark...

Karol wrote:

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Yeah that's a LOT more steps and faff for many. So yeah I don't think its going to change unless they can make a printer that basically spits out the fully cured model ready to go for the person.

Depending on what kind of stl we're talking, it's actually faster or as fast to clean the model and remove supports than getting the pieces of sprue and building the model.
It can also be a pain in the rear when dealing with obscure models. Goes both ways.

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Wargamers have proven that we are not "normal" customers

Heck many of us won't even buy into a game unless we can see it has at least a 5 year lifespan if not longer!


You can't just apply electronic market measures to wargames and hope to win - it will fail. Heck I suspect that kickstarters and patreons for 3D SLT files will only enjoy a boom period so long as the actual 3D market continues to grow. As soon as growth stops (ergo new people) or slows; I would imagine that people will hit practical limits of how many files and models they need. I'd predict over the coming years we'll see Patreons and similar for 3D have a massive boom period; however only so long as the 3D printer market booms. Any slowdown there and it will impact the designs with some lag time. Heck even those in it now are talking about how they are getting more and more picky. They just don't need 40 different huge dragons or giants to print.

dhallnet wrote:

Karol wrote:

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I mean I could say it is an eastern euro/asian thing. But Nike or Puma are western companies, and they design they stuff to break apart after a seson of wearing. With the materials they have they could make shoes and track suits that last for years, but then they would sell you one per 3 years. Better make a shoe that last 12 months, and sell you three in the same time. Tech stuff is made the same, specially the american apple stuff, their stuff breaks itself after a pre set time, that strangle coresponds with new products of the same line coming out. So yes it does make sense in a world where people try to scam other people, I agree, I just think that the everyone is a much larger number of people you may think it is.

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Back up a second - why do you need to wash and rinse your prints in beer?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Back up a second - why do you need to wash and rinse your prints in beer?

Geneva convention requirements, denying them beer is inhumane.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Back up a second - why do you need to wash and rinse your prints in beer?

For the same reason you have to hit a ship with a bottle of wine when naming it - If you want the model to roll good rolls in battle its got to be bathed and blessed in beer





For those who don't know, IPA - isopropyl alcohol - is used to wash the models as it cleans the liquid resin left on the model off. That way you've a clean model ready for curing, otherwise you'll be curing wet resin and that will utterly destroy the detail. There are some resins that are water-washable where you'd use water instead of IPA.

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Your iPhone doesn't magically stop working and fall apart on you just because two newer versions have come out and it's a few years old, by the way. I used my 3GS from 2010 until roughly 2016, and while it was certainly struggling a bit in that last year or so, it was still usable for what I needed it for.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Your iPhone doesn't magically stop working and fall apart on you just because two newer versions have come out and it's a few years old, by the way. I used my 3GS from 2010 until roughly 2016, and while it was certainly struggling a bit in that last year or so, it was still usable for what I needed it for.

Actually Apple did get caught uploading new firmwire that slowed down their older edition of a phone. I think the EU made them pay a fine for it. If they could they'd brick your phone as soon as the new model came out.
The attitude toward manufacture and products from a firm like Apple is just alien to Wargame markets.

yep. But this is nothing new for us eastern europe dudes. We have been telling the EU, that western companies are selling same named products, but worse in our countries for longer then I live. And when they finaly checked, they find out that same name food prodcuts, cleaning products even stuff TV or Freezers, are worse versions of the western stuff. less nuts in chocolate, less coco in it too, fewer active stuff inwashing powders, and house appliances stuff made out of weaker and worse material aka they break faster.

Getting back on topic,

it definitely seems that AoS is going to be the theme through the summer. We have to get through the releases that they've already teased/revealed, such as Admech, a new wave of Sisters models, and a bunch of things for Warhammer Underworlds, Titanicus, and other game systems besides.

On top of that, we are very much feeling the slow-down, both due to Covid and to the Memphis distribution center being shut down (major distribution for North America) during the winter storm a few weeks back.

Some are expecting AoS 3rd edition, since Broken Realms is pretty much Psychic Awakening for AoS. If that's coming, you can expect that to dominate the summer releases.

However, as 40k is still the 'bigger game', AoS new editions tend to be supplemented with other things. Last time, it was Imperial Knights and Kill Team that helped prop up their summer numbers while AoS 2nd edition came out. I'd expect something similar this year. It might not be kill team or imperial knights, but it'll be something 40k-related that GW expects to sell big.

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Karol wrote:
I mean I could say it is an eastern euro/asian thing. But Nike or Puma are western companies, and they design they stuff to break apart after a seson of wearing. With the materials they have they could make shoes and track suits that last for years, but then they would sell you one per 3 years. Better make a shoe that last 12 months, and sell you three in the same time. Tech stuff is made the same, specially the american apple stuff, their stuff breaks itself after a pre set time, that strangle coresponds with new products of the same line coming out. So yes it does make sense in a world where people try to scam other people, I agree, I just think that the everyone is a much larger number of people you may think it is.

Guys, nobody collects phones (even though, some people gives that impression) or biodegradable shoes. There is another value to miniatures than "function".

Edit: On second thoughts.. Nope.

On topic - If GW can make sprues for obscure Blood bowl/ Necromunda/ Whatever game. They darn well could have the capacity to make new aspects if they wanted to... Especialy as the designs are there ready for them.. They are infantry sized sprues. Not blimin knights..

Its not a capacity issue. Its purely a "unwillingness" issue. No idea why though..

 Mr. Grey wrote:

Your iPhone doesn't magically stop working and fall apart on you just because two newer versions have come out and it's a few years old, by the way. I used my 3GS from 2010 until roughly 2016, and while it was certainly struggling a bit in that last year or so, it was still usable for what I needed it for.

Tell me about it. I used my Samsung Note 3 from spring of '12 - March of '20. Friends were like "Does that thing even work anymore??"That answer was "Yes, mostly."

The only reasons I finally upgraded?
1) the coming of 5g
2) the charging plug was just plain wearing out.
3) My carrier informed me that come 2021 they'd no longer be supporting this model. Well, that'd be inconvenient....
I have to admit, got my $s worth out of my N3.

Hopefully I'm set for the next 8 years.

 Argive wrote:
Edit: On second thoughts.. Nope.

On topic - If GW can make sprues for obscure Blood bowl/ Necromunda/ Whatever game. They darn well could have the capacity to make new aspects if they wanted to... Especialy as the designs are there ready for them.. They are infantry sized sprues. Not blimin knights..

Its not a capacity issue. Its purely a "unwillingness" issue. No idea why though..

There are a dozen little reasons that Aspect Warriors haven't gotten big updates. I think a lot of it boils down to: Big Investment, Small Return.

6 separate Aspect Warrior infantry kits and 6 separate 'named' characters for a faction that doesn't sell a ton.

That's a lot of kits when you're not Space Marines.