Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2022/04/27 08:34:38
Subject: Armour of Contempt vs Hammer of The Emperor
Jarms48 wrote: Results are in from post-dataslate tournaments. Imperial Guard are sitting at 26%, the "buffs" barely changed anything.
This is what I believe Impy Guard really need to bring us to at least a 40% winrate:
1) Improve Army Wide Abilities:
- Allow custom regiments to take 3 doctrines. - Allow named regiments to take 1 custom doctrine in addition to their own.
- Allow Commissars to gain the Militarum Tempestus keyword, and as a result the <Tempestus Regiment> keyword, if taken in a Militarum Tempestus detachment.
This would add another layer of customisation in list building. For example Catachan's could take Slum Fighters for exploding 6's in melee to make them better in close combat. Vahallan's could take Gunnery Experts which could stack nicely with their better damage brackets on vehicles.
While Commissars are a thematic bonus. In lore they train in the same schools as Scions, as well as belong to the same organisation the Ordo Tempestus.
2) Give Militarum Tempestus the Hammer of the Emperor ability without breaking it for regular Guard.
This also opens up more list building options. Now you can have pure Guard, pure Scions, or a mixture of the two.
3) Massive point costs reduction, for example:
- Vanquisher: 110 points (with hull heavy bolter)
- Eradicator and Exterminator: 115 points (with hull heavy bolter)
- Executioner: 120 points (with hull heavy bolter)
- Battle Tank: 125 points (with hull heavy bolter)
- Demolisher and Punisher: 130 points (with hull heavy bolter)
These costs are heavily compared to the Dunecrawler. Which is strikingly similar statistically to the Leman Russ in both durability and firepower. Then just internally balance the other codex vehicles around these costs.
This is only for fixing the current codex. Not wishlisting the next codex.
The buff lowered their WR LUL
2022/04/27 09:01:32
Subject: Armour of Contempt vs Hammer of The Emperor
Kanluwen wrote: Commissars belong to the Officio Prefectus, which is their own schtick.
Tempestus could use an Elite level bit.
The Ordo Tempestus is what the Commissar belong to, the Officio Perfectus is what oversees the Commissars. The Officio Perfectus is now the answer to the question "who watches the watchmen?" Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
Spoiler:
The Militarum Tempestus, also known as the Ordo Tempestus, is amongst the most rigidly codified of all Imperial organisations, for its troops form the elite backbone of the Astra Militarum, serving as its special operations units.
Though the Ordo Tempestus is technically a sub-faction governed by the Adeptus Administratum, it enjoys a far greater amount of autonomy than the Imperial Guard regiments that often fight alongside it.
The Ordo Tempestus' ranks are primarily comprised of Commissars and the special forces troops known as Tempestus Scions or "Storm Troopers" in Low Gothic, though they have often included specialist factions mysteriously absent from Imperial records.
In every theatre of war across the galaxy, the Ordo's men work alongside the incalculable might of the Astra Militarum, their elite training complementing the sheer manpower of the Imperial Guard.
If the Ordo provides the rigid skeleton of discipline that holds the Astra Militarum together, it is the Commissars who are the minds of the operation. The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike, ensuring that their military force is put to the right use in the Emperor's name.
All Commissars are trusted to improvise new orders on the battlefield, a rare privilege in the rigidly-controlled structure of the Imperial war machine. But it is only the most senior of their number, known as Lord Commissars, who are truly independent.
They are warriors of great personal charisma, and they will often inspire the men by leading from the front rather than from behind the barrel of a Bolt Pistol.
Spoiler:
Commissars are special Imperial officers assigned to Imperial Guard regiments and Imperial Navy ships, whose purpose is to enforce discipline and devotion to the Emperor of Mankind. Independent of the conventional Imperial Guard Hierarchy, Commissars are instead attached to the Departmento Munitorum's Commissariat and are formally part of the Militarum Tempestus.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/28 06:58:37
2022/04/28 12:46:49
Subject: Armour of Contempt vs Hammer of The Emperor
Being "formally attached to" is not the same as being "a part of".
Also, you left off the entire other set of paragraphs that talks about how the Scions are a training ground for the Schola Progenium that decides whether you go to Commissar school.
2022/04/28 12:58:41
Subject: Armour of Contempt vs Hammer of The Emperor
Kanluwen wrote: Being "formally attached to" is not the same as being "a part of".
Also, you left off the entire other set of paragraphs that talks about how the Scions are a training ground for the Schola Progenium that decides whether you go to Commissar school.
In the Cain novels at least, the storm troopers (now militarum tempestus as I understand it) are those trained to be inquisitorial troopers,but who didn't make the incredibly high cut. If memory serves, this comes from one of Amberly's footnotes in response to Cain wondering why the munitorium (or whoever) bothers training them as they're not really worth it as you can't combine understrength squads effectively (I believe this was from the Simia Orichalcae story). Not sure how well that meshes with other fluff (but given that it got the black library stamp, I assume there's at least some level of fluff consistency checking...but that is an absolute guess on my part). I missed everything between 5th and 9th, so maybe there's a subtle distinction that I'm missing regarding the militarum tempestus.
2022/04/28 13:30:29
Subject: Armour of Contempt vs Hammer of The Emperor
Kanluwen wrote: Being "formally attached to" is not the same as being "a part of".
Also, you left off the entire other set of paragraphs that talks about how the Scions are a training ground for the Schola Progenium that decides whether you go to Commissar school.
Scions are trained at the same school as Commissars and Adepta Sororitas.
Spoiler:
Graduates of the Schola are known as Progena, and because of the loyalty their training has instilled in them, they are frequently sent for further training and service within other Imperial organisations. Progena are often earmarked for roles that call for the most rigorous dedication to the Imperium, these roles can include, Tempestus Scions, Commissars of the Imperial Guard, officers of the Imperial Navy, Imperial Assassins and even budding Inquisitors. Female Progena often join one of the Orders of the Adepta Sororitas while males often join the ranks of the Tempestus Scions.
GW changed the lore when they released the stand-alone Militarum Tempestus codex back in 6th edition. You could maybe argue that Officio Perfectus and Ordo Tempestus Commissars are different. That the Commissariat deals with the Guard and Navy, while Ordo Tempestus Commissars deal with the Militarum Tempestus.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/04/28 13:44:41
2022/04/28 15:05:31
Subject: Armour of Contempt vs Hammer of The Emperor
Kanluwen wrote: Being "formally attached to" is not the same as being "a part of".
Also, you left off the entire other set of paragraphs that talks about how the Scions are a training ground for the Schola Progenium that decides whether you go to Commissar school.
Scions are trained at the same school as Commissars and Adepta Sororitas.
Negative.
Scions are trained at the Schola Tempestus, Commissars are trained by the Schola Prefectus.
Spoiler:
Graduates of the Schola are known as Progena, and because of the loyalty their training has instilled in them, they are frequently sent for further training and service within other Imperial organisations. Progena are often earmarked for roles that call for the most rigorous dedication to the Imperium, these roles can include, Tempestus Scions, Commissars of the Imperial Guard, officers of the Imperial Navy, Imperial Assassins and even budding Inquisitors. Female Progena often join one of the Orders of the Adepta Sororitas while males often join the ranks of the Tempestus Scions.
GW changed the lore when they released the stand-alone Militarum Tempestus codex back in 6th edition. You could maybe argue that Officio Perfectus and Ordo Tempestus Commissars are different. That the Commissariat deals with the Guard and Navy, while Ordo Tempestus Commissars deal with the Militarum Tempestus.
They didn't change the lore all that much, because literally before then nobody really talked about how a lot of this worked beyond Black Library novels.
Also, it's not "female progena" anymore. It's much, much more specific.
Female cadets who show both physical aptitude and a burning faith in the Emperor will be sent to the Adepta Sororitas via one of the bodies that govern their ancient orders--the Convent Sanctorum or the Convent Prioris.
Males who evidence the same are taken by the Adeptus Ministorum.
2022/05/04 08:55:33
Subject: Armour of Contempt vs Hammer of The Emperor
In Warp Transit to next battlefield location, Destination Unknown
I voted for Armor of Contempt as being the stronger of the two buffs. AoC works in both the Shooting and Melee phases. Hammer of the Emperor only works when shooting.
Cowards will be shot! Survivors will be shot again!
Cowards will be shot! Survivors will be shot again!
